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http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gak

Gak is the 40k equivalent of sierra hotel india tango, and is used as such.

Nice looking terrain though.

If anything let those hurtful comment push your terrain to new levels. Learn more techniques and apply them, and create truly stunning pieces the gakkers can't afford. I think your terrain is very good, sure it can be improved and it looks like you are with each piece. The devil is in the details, and now with better pictures i can see your adding more with each build. Good luck in your endevors, i understand how hard it is to create terrain, and can sympathise. (look up my thread in modeling and painting blog section of this site, titled Port City)

So what are you on about here, anyway?

Are you wanting to know what GAK means, or are you on about here trying to call us out because we've got a different opinion of quality terraign then you do?

That kid asked for an opinion, he got it. I'm not speaking for these other Dakka folks, but I said that stuff could be made easy. Yeah, I said it. That stuff is about average and that you don't need but 20 bucks or so worth of stuff to make yourself some decent or fair to middle of the road terraign on your own.

You want to sit here and sophise that stuff with a shot across the collective bow? Go ahead, and ride that train then.

Like it or not, you are going to take peer review like any other profession, good, bad, or indifferent.

You take it because you put that stuff out there. And on top of that, you put that stuff out there like its some sort of Golden Demon stuff when it's on average. What, You actually think that stuffs something top drawer? A couple of bucks and an hour and you have that AND more. I see potential there, but that stuff needs more life then just a bland coat of grey paint and a little chickenwire on it.

Your stuff got a minor look and a cursory nod. If you think that as some sort of deficiency on your part, thats entirly too bad. That terrain your pumping is on average, if people don't want to pay that much, thats thier choice. Don't come over here like your the terriagn god and think that your selling something special.

Bottom line- Someone asked for an opinion, they got it. You don't like it, then step up your game. And as for all that handicapped stuff, you can stow that stuff, too. You are out there with a website and pimping out wargames terraign, you are an equal in the eyes of the wargaming community, because your trying to turn a profit on wargames terraign.

DO NOT wave that in our collective faces again.

Yeah I was in that thread, I said.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:I had a look at his auctions sold, and if I'm honest I'm looking at the prices he's been getting and thinking I should start making terrain to sell on ebay.

Not got the time sadly, but hell if some of those command £10-30, for the time I know I spend chucking mine together. Wow.

That wasn't a comment on your terrain in general, more of a Wow, folks can get that much. I seriously love making terrain, so time put in is a minimal cost to me, however with full time job, two kids and various other chores to do I really haven't the concivable time to do it.

If I could, I would.

Although thinking on it I sold my half finished Mordheim terrain about eight years ago for quite a profit, so I'd imagine finsihed stuff sells quite well.

Good luck with your items.

It's nice but personally I think you could do more.

For one the obvious joints where two pieces come together, it looks bad IMO.

For another, more detail would be nice, some grass growing up between the cracks or among the rubble would really give some pop to piece. Also graffiti, there isn't a single city in the world that doesn't have graffiti scrawled on every dilapidated building.

Also some small flavor pieces, such as the corpse of a guardsman lying in the corner of a building forgotten by his comrades in their haste to retreat. A wreaked tank of some sort, or some other vehicle, even some old tires would look good.

Also one last piece of advice, don't take the CC so personally.

Looking at your selling thread, I have to ammend what I said. It looks like good terrain, and I like it. However, I would not pay 40 quid for it. Maybe 25 or so....

As I said before, it's nice terrain. It's not ZOMG BEST STUFF EVER, but it's nice. You've done well here, but there is room for improvement.

It's the internet. Don't let it dictate how you are living your life.

If making terrain is how you deal with your anxiety issues, good on you for it. If you've been able to make a few bucks doing it, even better.

You're making terrain for 2 people 1) yourself and 2) your buyer(s).

You're not making terrain for nameless mongrels hiding on internet forums.

Good luck lad.

I can buy resin cast ready painted bits of amazing terrain for thirty pounds from my local model shop. So colour me surprised that you're selling those for that kind of money.

Negative feedback, hurtful comments, etc. should motivate you to kick more ass. It is what it is. Grot said it best. Get a thick skin and plow into it. Get better. Get more money. Throw some D's on that hoe, etc. etc.

P.S. Saw your videos, if that is you - nice hair. You might note from my avatar that long hair is quite bad ass.

Good luck.

ED: bad ass doggie, too. That is all. /stalker mode off.

Hmmmm...

I think... I think that there are many saying 'how much?!?! I can do better than that for next to nothing!!' and are not taking into account working times to make the product.

Ultimately the market will decide if you need to amend your price and if, after that, it's going to be worth continuing the work.

The anonymity of the internet facilitates people being less than reserved with their comments, comments they'd tailor and subdue if they met you face to face. Don't stress it.

First let me say that I make terrain and take it to conventions to sell. I have done so for the last ten years, with many repeat customers.
Now let me tell you folks that if you think you can make terrain like the OP has pictured in an hour you are sadly mistaken. Good terrain can take days to make with cutting, filling, glueing, detailing, painting, flocking, and clearcoating each taking a minimum of two hours drying time before proceeding to the next step. Also take into account the huge mess this all has potential to make.
Those who say this is easy money have obviously never done it.
I have seen a few people bring poorly made terrain to shows and not sell any of it. Go figure.
Anyway the point of all this is if the OP sells terrain and gets good prices for it then he deserves it for the effort. Time will tell if his quality level is sufficient when the repeat orders and commissions come rolling in, or not.

The prepaints currently sold in hobby shops are not bad detail-wise but could be painted better IMHO. Their prices seem a bit high to me, but then resin is an expensive material to work with. The only problem I see with mass produced terrain is that it looks like everyone elses.

So why not back off the OP with the hate? Or better yet go try making a grouping of ruined buildings on a landscaped base. You can do it in an hour, right? Maybe you just may learn something.

Very cool terrain. The rust and the ''dripping rust'' really shows your attention to detail.

Mate. Gak. Lol.


Good luck with the online sales Sir. Practice makes perfect, and who knows - in time you could even make Movie props/Minis(I have seen it happen!)

All the best, could do with some improvement, and I'm sure you'll do well

Yeah, terrain building isn't profitable enough to be worth anyone's
time, it seems. You either have to make something really good or
something really low priced. Making it good and low priced means
you're not getting your time investment back.

First of all welcome to Dakka After Tomorrow...
if you see what I mean...

Am guessing, but think I can understand why you looked up the word and made your introductory post in that manne.

I can also understand the amount of hard work and time that has gone into your terrain pieces.
Also appreciate the problems of anxiety and health issues . Good on you for giving it a shot and the best of luck with the venture.

Grot 6, I guess harsh but fair would be my appraisal of your comment. Still, I think you could have laid off the TNT just a tad and left the personal attack out of it (why is there some kind of inverse rule law whereby the cuter the avatar, the more hardline the comments posted? )

In short to the OP, don't take what everyone says on here to heart, especially when it's from little angry-pants posters. It's good what you are trying to do, keep at it, your talents will improve and no doubt your stuff will sell. Although making terrain isn't the hardest thing in the world, it is very time consuming and it's amazing how many people don't bother and instead buy off ebay. So' I'm sure there will be a market for your goods.

To me, the work is amateurish at best, and yes, I am pretty sure I could knock one of those out start to finish in an hour with the right prep...

But who cares what I think, if people are willing to buy them and you are having a successful go of it, then it doesn't really matter at all what people like me think.

Well I may be a slow modeller but knocking one out in an hour doesn't sound feasible.
Grot needs to calm down and get things in perspective.

Yes there are things that could be improved on.
So why not suggest those things instead of vilifying the guy for doing something he is entitled to do.
It's terrain for toy soldiers on ebay, not smack on sale outside a schoolgate.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Well I may be a slow modeller but knocking one out in an hour doesn't sound feasible.
Grot needs to calm down and get things in perspective.

Yes there are things that could be improved on.
So why not suggest those things instead of vilifying the guy for doing something he is entitled to do.
It's terrain for toy soldiers on ebay, not smack on sale outside a schoolgate.

From what I saw: it looked like it's scenery made from posterboard or in some cases the foam packing that you get with PCs/TVs.

Anything more than $10 USD is where I'd start 'vilifying' someone for that, no matter how well made or how much time they put into it.

And but so?

I have no idea how much is being charged for the terrain pieces. Haven't looked because I make my own terrain.

If the price is set too high then they won't sell so why lay into the guy.

GW knock out plastic stuff for next to nothing if you are basing the costing of a product purely on the cost of raw materials, so it does matter how long something takes to build.

There is critique and criticism, neither as far as I can see have been asked for despite Grot claiming it to be so.
If I missed the invite then I apologise.

Upon reading this post (Ebay Terrain thread) some users claimed Terrain such as mine is easy to make and takes no time at all, I am surprised at these remarks as I thought Experienced Gamers/Modellers as such would know that making Terrain takes Hours, if not days what with all the stages of dry brushing/painting and sticking rubble down etc

Some users seem to infer that making Terrain such as mine is easy money, well if this is so why are none of you doing it? And why is ebay not full of Terrain? Because it is not easy money, and takes many long hours to make my Terrain and I find it hurtful that people claim it is easy to produce when it is not.

Try reading the OP next time, Chibi Although, I will admit that it is a bit confused because half of it seems like he's posting because he's upset he got called out as his stuff being "easy to make" and the other half just seems like he wants to call out the people who put down his stuff.

And frankly:
eBay is not "full of terrain" like his because, at least in my opinion, people know terrain built from materials like his isn't really 'acceptable' to sell.

I don't see people selling scratch built cardstock Titans, Thunderbolts, etc on eBay. It doesn't mean that they're easy to build or any less spectacular when done well.

Which I think is what people were talking about in the original thread.

After Tomorrow wrote:Gak, I did not know what this word meant so I looked upon Google, apparently Crystal Meth and gone off food is the definition. I assume it is being used on this forum to mean crap and I guess Immensely unimpressed means something similar.

Hello everybody, my name is Chris I am the one whom makes the Terrain upon ebay that has attracted some discussion on the forum (Ebay Terrain thread)
I am disabled with a server anxiety disorder and seldom leave the home, I am trying to start a new business from home selling what I consider to be terrain that represents a future battlefield.

Upon reading this post (Ebay Terrain thread) some users claimed Terrain such as mine is easy to make and takes no time at all, I am surprised at these remarks as I thought Experienced Gamers/Modellers as such would know that making Terrain takes Hours, if not days what with all the stages of dry brushing/painting and sticking rubble down etc

Some users seem to infer that making Terrain such as mine is easy money, well if this is so why are none of you doing it? And why is ebay not full of Terrain? Because it is not easy money, and takes many long hours to make my Terrain and I find it hurtful that people claim it is easy to produce when it is not.

In this country we have a minimum wage of nearly £6.00 an hour, if I sell one of my Terrain on ebay I am making a fraction of that an hour.

I just wanted to say that instead of coming on and addressing people head on when they criticize you you should listen to what they have to say and try to make your product better. I have posted a thread about my miniature company that I am starting (link right here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/350198.page (shameless self-promotion over)) and not everyone who posted like what I was doing. Now maybe some of these people are just complete morons but maybe some of them have some good ideas. My point is don't just blow off people who offer criticism no matter how bluntly because everyone of them is a potential customer and you need to be asking "Why does this person not like what I am making and what can I do to get them to buy my product?"

Now this isn't going to make everyone want to buy your terrain but it just might make you a better / more imaginative terrain maker and that just might make you some more money. So take it in stride and turn in it into a learning experience!

The pieces, while nice and took effort seem very incomplete to me. The yellow lines should be stenciled with an airbrush. Looks like is was done w/ yellow chalks. Putting stuff on the wrong side of the hard board doesn't help. It is super absorbant vs. the smooth side. You shouls cover the pieces in rubble/ballast for a better finish IMO.

I would not consider basing a business on these but look to improve your output in the same amount (or less time) to make it productive.

To be honest, they're not bad looking pieces, but there's nothing to make them really stand out. They'd be great for a game store that knows they're going to get used and abused, and they look reasonably sturdy.

To go to the next level:

Find a way to do lines (like road markings) neater. I know I just got some Tamiya masking tape of Amazon a couple months ago for a similar purpose, but you could probably make do (in this case) with just plain old painter's tape.

Research and look at architecture. Real buildings tend to be built with layers to walls, while a lot of terrain (such as the above sample) is basically 'concrete slabs.'

Real buildings have lots of little details on both the inside and outside. Electrical, telco, and other utilities like to poke holes and attach boxes and meters. For the 'concrete slab' structures mentioned above, cabling is likely to be either screwed to the wall with loops (a good opportunity there: a lot of WWII or Cold War era 'bunker' footage has big bundles of cables and lighting lining walls that breaks up the 'slab' look.

Signage should be crisp, or at least look like it was crisp when new.

Roads usually have some treatment on edges. Curbs are common in cities, while in rural areas you might see drainage ditches or similar. Roads almost never but right up against the buildings.


I do like that you added some wire sticking out of ends to look like rebar reinforcement. They might be a bit too spiky for my tastes, as I'd probably impale myself on them...

As a final suggestion, you might want to check out Terragenesis as a good scenery-building community.

I did read the OP Kanners and still can't find the bit that says please feel free to offer C&C

Again if I have missed it I apologise, but can't see it.
Furthermore there seems to be a lot of macho posturing about "manning up" and getting better.

Then there is criticism about coming into the lion's den and defending himself.
Which is surely a "manly" thing to do?
I will say this, that one needs to make statements that won't wind people up if you want to get some dialogue After Tomorrow.
Now if there were more people like Balance and jgemrich around, Dakka might be a less scary place to be.

Seeing as for £10 more I can get GWs Imperial Sector, i'm not surprised that people expect more than cutout buildings and a rather dull paintjob.

That's fine Snarky
But we don't have to gang up and mob the guy either

Forget it.

Don't pee on my head and tell me it's raining.


I was going to continue, but the conversations going at about the same speed as the other one did, and I rest my opinion on that.