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Hey folks, Im in the middle of laboring on my Batttle for Calth Era Word Bearers, and Im trying to find a list that I like. With the help of an experienced player in the store, I've tried to find a really good list that doesn't sacrifice fluff to achieve it. I'll also be writing a "fluffy" list for friendly games that has more Chaplains, but this is a tournament competitive list. I can't justify a DoA list and I loathe Razor-Spam so I just want something where I wont be hobbled by what I take.

1850 Word Bearers Gal Vorbak Strike Force

HQ:

Mephiston
250

Elite:

Furioso Dreadnought with Blood Talons, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor
150

Furioso Librarian
175

Troops:

10 Man Assault Squad
2 Meltaguns
Sergeant Power Fist
Remove Jump Packs
Rhino
250

10 Man Assault Squad
2 Meltaguns
Sergeant Power Fist
Remove Jump Packs
Rhino
250

10 Man Assault Squad
2 Meltaguns
Sergeant Power Fist
Remove Jump Packs
Rhino
250

Heavy Support

Vindicator
Dozer Blade
145

Vindicator
Dozer Blade
145


Stormraven
Twin-Linked Multi-Melta
Twin-Linked Plasma Cannons
Extra Armor
215

1840/1850

Now I know I lost half of you as soon as you saw Mephiston. Well sit back down kids. I actually have a valid conversion and fluff reason for including him. I will represent him with Argel-Tal, the protagonist of The First Heretic.


As for tactics, a lot of it was inspired by Jawaball's recent article about how he uses mephiston. Meph will mount up in the stormraven with the furioso.

If I have first turn, I will rocket the stormraven up at full speed for the flat out save and maybe get a POTMS shot off. The Vindis will make an armored wall with the rhinos as a second wave if necessary and the Libby will create a psychic hood bubble and be a counter attack unit.

If it is Dawn of War deployment, Id probably reserve everything and take advantage of fast vehicles on my turn and cause some damage.

If I get turn two, I'll hold back my deathstar and move up second turn. Im banking on the target density to allow either the Raven or the Vindis to survive. AWhichever one they target, they leave a threat open to get them.

I REALLY am not a fan of including the Furioso Librarian, as I don't feel I can justify it with fluff or conversion. If anyone has an alternative, let me know.

Feel free to speak your mind about this list. Especially if you think Im being seduced by the cheese side or Im being a complete moron in some other way.

Just remember you can't have Mephiston in the stormraven at the start of the game, he has to start outside of it.

Im a little bit hazy on the rules for non-dedicated transports, why is that?

And overall, what do you think of the list?

Thamor wrote:Just remember you can't have Mephiston in the stormraven at the start of the game, he has to start outside of it.

The SR is Heavy Supprt not Dedicated Transport so shouldn't be an issue! Basically with DT the unit it was bought for is the only unit who can deploy in it.


As for the Lib Dread, I have one and like it, but then again I always field DC marines and tend to use the Lib Dread as fun. For a competitive list I would swap out the Dread for Sanguine Priests to bolster your Assault Squads, with FNP and Furious Charge you will be getting DC bonus' without the pts cost!

Personally I favour Jump Packs over Rhinos but if you keep the rhinos then drop a marine and use the pts to tool up the Priests.

Lastly I'm not a huge fan of the Vindis, not sure why, maybe cause I only have one and it never serves me well! But I would consider swapping at least one out for a Baal Class to give you more weapon options and out flanking! The Flamestorm cannon can reek havoc for marine and ork alike! S6 AP3 auto hit, what's not to love!

I was considering getting some, but the guy I was talking to said I need another anti-deathstar

Emperors_Champion wrote:

Thamor wrote:Just remember you can't have Mephiston in the stormraven at the start of the game, he has to start outside of it.

The SR is Heavy Supprt not Dedicated Transport so shouldn't be an issue! Basically with DT the unit it was bought for is the only unit who can deploy in it.


As for the Lib Dread, I have one and like it, but then again I always field DC marines and tend to use the Lib Dread as fun. For a competitive list I would swap out the Dread for Sanguine Priests to bolster your Assault Squads, with FNP and Furious Charge you will be getting DC bonus' without the pts cost!

Personally I favour Jump Packs over Rhinos but if you keep the rhinos then drop a marine and use the pts to tool up the Priests.

Lastly I'm not a huge fan of the Vindis, not sure why, maybe cause I only have one and it never serves me well! But I would consider swapping at least one out for a Baal Class to give you more weapon options and out flanking! The Flamestorm cannon can reek havoc for marine and ork alike! S6 AP3 auto hit, what's not to love!

I could be wrong but i'm still pretty sure he has to start the game outside of it.

You really can't make a competitive BA list and not utilize DOA or razor spam. In my opinion as an experienced BA player following a list made by Jawaballs is only going to get you out of a tourny early. His lists are geared for fun and not winning. Don't believe everything you read about wins and losses. My advice is drop the furioso libby one vindicator and one of those assault squads and replace it with a DOA assault squad a razorback with TL LC and six assault marines and a priest or two. BA armies without priests are a bad idea. mephiston is great and you can hide him behind the tanks and stuff. Also think about baal preds. one with a flame storm and scouting can take an entire squad out of cover especially in spearhead.

Strategically I think the list is good, but as above stated, Preds work better than vindis so mix and match them as they are both fast, maybe drop a vindicator or both if you have crap rolls on scater and replace meph with a basic libby or a dreadnought for a priest or two and some preds with assault cannons.

Flamestorm works, but it doesnt bring out the full awesome of the baal. You have to get range and most players will stay away from an outflanking flamer and keep to the middle of the table. Replace a rhino go with a land raider redeemer for a dedicated transporter for an assault squad if you want some up close flamers and so get free extra armor, it can hold 12 models so libby can hide in there instead of mephiston out in the open.

Im not a mech angel so I might be wrong on some of this.

First off, Thanks so much to everyone for their advice!

Sanguinius1385 wrote:You really can't make a competitive BA list and not utilize DOA or razor spam. In my opinion as an experienced BA player following a list made by Jawaballs is only going to get you out of a tourny early. His lists are geared for fun and not winning. Don't believe everything you read about wins and losses. My advice is drop the furioso libby one vindicator and one of those assault squads and replace it with a DOA assault squad a razorback with TL LC and six assault marines and a priest or two. BA armies without priests are a bad idea. mephiston is great and you can hide him behind the tanks and stuff. Also think about baal preds. one with a flame storm and scouting can take an entire squad out of cover especially in spearhead.

I agree with mostly everything here. I just normally end up 0-2-1 at local tourneys (usually because the TO ALWAYS makes me fight the Leafblower guys) but don't want to become a WAAC anti-fluff Cheesinator. This isn't a Jawaballs list, the only thing from him was the Meph Stormraven/Furioso Tag Team which I really really like. I'm not sure where to cut for priests. I want to have a few CC dominating squads up my sleeve if necessary. Also, I DO know that using 1 Vindicator is asking for disaster, as they usually get every gun from here to narnia focused on them. With 2 Vindicators, a Flying Dreadnought and a Meph/Dread Doom Team coming, it'll be hard to choose a target. In theory anyway. I WILL however try to squeeze in some priests

Defeatmyarmy wrote:Strategically I think the list is good, but as above stated, Preds work better than vindis so mix and match them as they are both fast, maybe drop a vindicator or both if you have crap rolls on scater and replace meph with a basic libby or a dreadnought for a priest or two and some preds with assault cannons.

I totally see where you're coming from, but I really like Vindicators and Mephiston, I'm totally looking for places to fit in priests. Although having awesome baals has some serious merits

Defeatmyarmy wrote:
Flamestorm works, but it doesnt bring out the full awesome of the baal. You have to get range and most players will stay away from an outflanking flamer and keep to the middle of the table. Replace a rhino go with a land raider redeemer for a dedicated transporter for an assault squad if you want some up close flamers and so get free extra armor, it can hold 12 models so libby can hide in there instead of mephiston out in the open.

I'd consider this, except when I tried 2 Land Raiders recently, they were usually smoking ruins by turn 2. And there is no way I can fit in a redeemer :/

Yea so def take priests. It'll make those assault sqauds alot better. You can put him on a bike and ride him next to you're rhinos. As long as you like playing your list play it anyway you want it. I've seen way worse lists before.....also taking to landraiders in anything under 2000 pts is always a bad idea

Where can I squeeze him in? Drop the meltagunner from each squad and drop some bits and bobs here and there?

I want to bridge the gap between uber cheesy and fluffy. So if I can safely up the cheese ante, I'll do so. I just want to stay away from things that are definitively Blood Angels. So what would make this a super competitive list? Like if I took out as many of the stops as possible

who are you trying to squeeze in?

must say you need priests, haha everyone is saying it, and it is very true! I wouldnt go with land raiders like you said, they tend to become smoking ruins quickly! I would also change rhinos to razorbacks, but since you don't want to razor spam maybe change one of them, or add a pred for some more long ranged weapons? i usually play DOA BA, or blob guard and stay away from tank lists, but this is just what came to mind.

I dont usually play games larger than 1750 but you dont need a razor spam list to win or doa you jsut need to know what you are doing i run jump packers that jump across the table use the terrain. Have priests in all units and have some good back up with baal preds and a vindi they give great support. I used to run a list where everything was in transports but then it wasnt that fun because it meant i had to wait and that wasn't too fun. 3 to 4 squads of 10 man assault squads with 2 meltas and a pf 3 to 4 priests with jump packs um 2 baal preds with assault cannons and heavy bolters and a vindicator with a siege shield give excellent fire power and killyness.

The issue with a jump list is that the army is still Word Bearers, so I can't get away with an all JP list.

Suppose I drop the furioso libby, drop a MG Assault Marine from each squad and add a PW Combi-Melta Sang priest to each squad? Would I have enough target density and anti-Deathstar?

@ Archmagos- in my opinion yes. Priests really are the best thing the angels go. that and the ability to put chaplains into squads and not have it take an HQ slot. If you want to stay fluffy and pack a punch add chaplains. The word bearers wer notorious for being over zealous.

In my opinion, your desire to be fluffy is going to give you a lot of problems also being competitive. The main advantages of the BA army are the Priests, Descent of Angels, and cheap, scoring Razorback squads. I understand why you don't want to use any of these things, but it's going to make it tough to win against optimized lists.

By the way, one compromise might be Razorspam. Your stated aversion to it is personal taste, not fluff, after all. For whatever it's worth, BA do it best.

All right, I'm definitely going to spring for a few Sanguinary Priests.

@Sanguinius1358: My friendlier list uses Chaplains as a sort of sergeant to each squad. If only I had the points and elite slots to put them everywhere here...

@MrEconomy: My biggest issues with Razorspam are
A) Razorbacks are post-heresy, so they're big no-nos
and more importantly
B) I really don't like how it plays. I simply can't sit back and shoot my enemy to death. I must crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and hear the lamentations of their women

Also...we already have 4 Razorspam guys at my FLGS, so I don't want to add to that.

This is tough hmmmmmm.
I like how you were thinking about the priest with combi melta and pw but that makes the priest expensive and if you are not careful then the priest dies in a badly placed cc. But again it does give you the melta that you loose hmm liking the idea id say just the pw it will save you some points might add devs. Yes I know devs arnt fluffy but every chapter has them and well ours have cheaper weapons thats what i might suggest 2 missile launchers and 2 las cans. Other than that I dont really have an idea off the top of my head at the moment.

What wrong with a DoA list?????Isn't that fluffy enough....Blood Angels with Jumppacks?

He dosnt have the models isnt that the problem or am I missing something thats why its not a Doa list i think.

In an 1850 you really dont need the priest. You could overwhemled your opponet with troop select.

Very true but how will you get them there? if you are doing transports they will be rhinos which can be cracked really easily if you have them foot slogging without packs then you are screwed. If you doa then that could be crazy if played well can be devastating just make sure you deep strike just right you get cover and assault the next turn but that is tricky especially with the scary templates that Ig have and plasma and vindi shells it is risky and very effective but you need a bit of luck and a bit of skill. IMO

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:In an 1850 you really dont need the priest. You could overwhemled your opponet with troop select.

this is funny.

On the list, firstly Meph can start in the Storm Raven as it's not dedicated transport and is heavy support. Though, the Storm Raven will be a single target carrying another two single targets - Meph will go down to plasma fire in time and the Furioso Dreadnought is a pain in the arse and will get blasted. You need to take things in pairs for target saturation. Anyone who knows what a Furioso can do with blood talons will nail it before it reaches assault.

Rest is ok.

Okay, I dropped the Furioso Dreadnought Librarian and one meltagunner from each squad and added 3 Sanguinary Priests with Power Swords The list now reads

Mephiston

Furioso with Extra Armor, Heavy Flamer, Blood Talons

3 Sanguinary Priests with Power Sword

Assault Squad x9
Meltagun
Sergeant Power Fist
Rhino

Assault Squad x9
Meltagun
Sergeant Power Fist
Rhino

Assault Squad x9
Meltagun
Sergeant Power Fist
Rhino

Stormraven with Extra Armor, TLMM, TLPC

Vindicator Seige Shield

Vindicator Seige Shield

@ archmagos- Now that list has sex appeal!! For what its worth its not super cheezy either i like it

You've still got that big Storm Raven with a bullseye on it, you're probably not going to get much cover for it and if it deep strikes Meph cannot unload. Also consider that's 125 ish for the Dreadnought, 200 + for Meph and 200 for the Raven that's say about 500 points tied up in a single unit!

Drop the power weaps on the Priests. I have lost count how many times I have said this is a bad idea. The Priests will get in combat and kill average 3 enemy models. Enemy models strike back kill the Priest no more FnP or F.C bad times for you.

You're better going Razorbacks as you're only getting the extra 4 Marines and still leaving a place for a I.C. Only benefit to getting 10 Marines is the extra special weapon. Take the Razorbacks get less troops more points to spend on other stuff and you're still taking a single special anyway.

But each squad would become twice as squishy. I want my squads to retain some CC oomph

How would they be twice as squishy? Still got feel no pain still go furious charge still got single meltagun. Only thing what has changed is the extra Marines which are only making up numbers and nothing else. With a Priest and a power weap on the sgt if using flamers they will lay the smack down in combat.

A 5 man Assault Squad on the charge with a priest is deadly, even worse if you have a PW or a PF in there. In a Blood Angels army a Sanguinary Priest is a must.