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Looking into creating a list with Crowe and 3x 10 man Purifier squads and then fill it out from there. This is gonna be a mostly footslogging army(i'vedone mech). I was thinking about doing

10-4 psycannons, 1 daemonhammer, 5 halbreds
10-4 psycannons, 1 daemonhammer, 5 halbreds
10-2 incinerators, 2psylincers, 1 daemon hammer, 5 halbreds

No psyrifledreads and no henchman for me. Was thinking about using Dreadknights, interceptors for the rest of the points.

My real question is do you think that thats too many heavy weapons or too much points to sink into them?

pjmcgrath07 wrote:Looking into creating a list with Crowe and 3x 10 man Purifier squads and then fill it out from there. This is gonna be a mostly footslogging army(i'vedone mech). I was thinking about doing

10-4 psycannons, 1 daemonhammer, 5 halbreds
10-4 psycannons, 1 daemonhammer, 5 halbreds
10-2 incinerators, 2psylincers, 1 daemon hammer, 5 halbreds

No psyrifledreads and no henchman for me. Was thinking about using Dreadknights, interceptors for the rest of the points.

My real question is do you think that thats too many heavy weapons or too much points to sink into them?

Not sure how many points this is but besides KP scenarios the best way to go is spread your squads out in razorbacks if they can take them. Then when the razor blows up you have more heavy weapons to attack with and if they created burning wreckage you can sit there and get cover, and make everyone trying to assault you take dangerous terrain tests.

yeah i do that with my Blood Angels but want to get away from the Razor/Rhino things. I'm thinking trying to hold midfield and just pluck away with rending mass psycannon shots then hope the dreadknights can tear it up. What do you think about how i loaded out the 10 man squads?

pjmcgrath07 wrote:yeah i do that with my Blood Angels but want to get away from the Razor/Rhino things. I'm thinking trying to hold midfield and just pluck away with rending mass psycannon shots then hope the dreadknights can tear it up. What do you think about how i loaded out the 10 man squads?

Do you have to take 10 for 4 psycannons? I used to run 4 psycannons and justicar only back in daemonhunters. If you can make a whole army with this build and have dreadknights to tie up assault units I think it could work, but expect to lose a lot of men if you dont get the first turn.

yeah well you can always deepstrike dreadknights. Yeah its 2 heavy weapons for every 5 men. They have +1 attack and +1 leadership compared to normal grey knights


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It's 40 for the psycannons, 12 for the halbreds and i think 5 or 10 for the hammer. So its about 50 pts of upgrades. Worth it or drop some heavy?

I would say if they can combat squad it would work very well. If not maybe take minimal squads with the halbred and 2 psycannons. You need to have as many things able to fire as possible to take out mech and swarms, so maybe max of 2 dreadknights, put incinerators on teleporter squads...I dont have the codex yet...

Interceptors for the rest of points. Otherwise shooty army WILL break you.

Less Psycannons, they eat up two many points. Especially considering that one of the main reasons for GK costing so many points is that they are better in Mêlée than normal marines. Heavy weapons slows them down. For each of the squads w/ 2x psycannons, replace one with an incinerator. Assault just makes it worth it.

im2randomghgh wrote:Interceptors for the rest of points. Otherwise shooty army WILL break you.

Less Psycannons, they eat up two many points. Especially considering that one of the main reasons for GK costing so many points is that they are better in Mêlée than normal marines. Heavy weapons slows them down. For each of the squads w/ 2x psycannons, replace one with an incinerator. Assault just makes it worth it.

I dont understand why replace 1 with an incinerator? Psycannons are longer range and more likely to take out mech. I thought interceptors were made just to use incinerators. The OP doesnt want any mech in his army.

The reason is for anti-horde, plus I have a template addiction.

Defeatmyarmy wrote:

pjmcgrath07 wrote:Looking into creating a list with Crowe and 3x 10 man Purifier squads and then fill it out from there. This is gonna be a mostly footslogging army(i'vedone mech). I was thinking about doing

10-4 psycannons, 1 daemonhammer, 5 halbreds
10-4 psycannons, 1 daemonhammer, 5 halbreds
10-2 incinerators, 2psylincers, 1 daemon hammer, 5 halbreds

No psyrifledreads and no henchman for me. Was thinking about using Dreadknights, interceptors for the rest of the points.

My real question is do you think that thats too many heavy weapons or too much points to sink into them?

Not sure how many points this is but besides KP scenarios the best way to go is spread your squads out in razorbacks if they can take them. Then when the razor blows up you have more heavy weapons to attack with and if they created burning wreckage you can sit there and get cover, and make everyone trying to assault you take dangerous terrain tests.

No fire points on a razorback, where as a Rhino has 2. Purifiers can fire 2 psycannons out of a Rhino's pair of access hatches which may or may not outgun a razorback.

Shot per shot AC with psycbolt=psycannon

Razorback TLAC=4 shots=8/9 hit= 3 & 5/9 hits per round.

Rhino assault 2*2=4 shots=2/3 hit=2 & 2/3 hits per round, the razorback yields 8/9th more of a hit per round.

Rhino heavy 4*4=8 shots=2/3 hit=5 & 1/3 hits per round, the Rhino yields 16/9th more of hit per round.

The rhino generates twice as many extra hits in heavy 4 than the razorback's TLAC generates over assault 2 psycannons.

In 3 turns of game play a rhino firing in assault 2 twice and heavy 4 once will generate as many hits as a razorbacks tlac firing 3 times. If the rhino can fire in heavy 4 more often than 1/3 times it will outgun the razorback.

The razorback costs more than a rhino. I can see justification for razorbacks in some lists, but in a dakka purifier list rhinos can outgun razorbacks for fewer points.

This is what I will do:


10-4 psycannons, 1 MC-daemonhammer, 5 halbreds, psybolt ammo - 320
10-4 psycannons, 1 MC-daemonhammer, 5 halbreds, psybolt ammo - 320
10-4 psycannons, 1 MC-daemonhammer, 5 halbreds, psybolt ammo - 320

S5 stormbolters & psycannons are good enough for infantry as well as vehicles. You don't need incinerators as you already have Cleansing Flame and stormbolters. I really like S5 stormbolters and would prefer to keep that over the MD-daemonhammers.

No I have to warn you about not taking psyfleman dreads. Psycannons, though good, is not a reliable enough source for AT. If you don't take the dreads, you're seriously gimped against mech armies.

Don't put psilencers on anything, let alone footsloggers. And don't give them incineraters for similar reasons. Incineraters are not bad weapons actually, but I wouldn't expect to get alot of mileage out of them from units that can't move faster than 6" a turn. The rest of your shooting is 24", and you don't want to have to rush closer than that with a unit that isn't designed to withstand alot of punishment.

If I were you (and I'm not of course), I would gear the purifiers for shooting and take 2 units of interceptors (and a teleporting DK if you want) focused on assault. Granted, the purifiers are great in a fight, but the trouble for you is getting there if you refuse to use tanks.

Giving maybe 2 purifier units halberds and a master crafted hammer is all the cc power you need from them if you have a good screen of interceptors and DKs out in front or ready to counter charge.

I'd argue that purifiers are a shooting unit that can handle the assault phase, not the other way around. You will get more out of their shooting than assault most times anyways, as your targets will probably be vehicles. And when it comes to fighting infantry, its the cleansing flame that will do most of the dirty work for you anyways. Multi-charge with 2 units of purifiers will spell the end of alot of units before you take a swing.

Also, don't take Purgation Squads, ever.

If you do, you WILL lose, always. always. just don't

im2randomghgh wrote:Also, don't take Purgation Squads, ever.

If you do, you WILL lose, always. always. just don't

GK can combat squad a 10 man purifier squad into one squad with 4 psycannons and another that is purely assault. The question to ask is if 4 psycannons is overkill.

im2randomghgh wrote:Also, don't take Purgation Squads, ever.

If you do, you WILL lose, always. always. just don't

evidence? I personally like the idea of driving out to midfield, hopping behind the smoked razor/rhino, passing an easy test, and firing at something with 8 S7 rending shots not needing LOS. Then next turn firing 16 shots and maybe 3 S6 HB bolter shots. If that volume of fire isn't good enough to make up for lost S4 force weapons, I don't know what is.

schadenfreude: There is no such thing as overkill.

As for purifer loadout: Unless you are strapped for elite slots, I would go with 5 man squads with 2 cannons. Missing out on the PW attacks is made up by the fact that you have S7 rending shooting (something you are more likely to be doing most turns), 3 guys who still get the PW attacks, and having cleansing flame to generate extra wounds.

Well there is such a thing as overkill.

When shooting at AV10 open topped raiders/trukks for example 16 S7 rending shots at BS4 is overkill, especially when the squad has the option to combat squad and thus split it into 8 S7 rending shots at BS4 fired against 2 raiders/trukks. It's better to kill 2 transports than overkill 1 transport.

schadenfreude wrote:
GK can combat squad a 10 man purifier squad into one squad with 4 psycannons and another that is purely assault. The question to ask is if 4 psycannons is overkill.

You need all those guns to reliably take out your target. For example, trying to take down a raider with SMF cover save requires all those shots just to score 1 pen hit. Against AV12 or higher, 8 psycannon shots will net you slightly less than 1 pen, and thats without a cover save. Against marines, those 8 shots will only net you about 1.5 kills, 3 if you stand still and fire 16.

When your only heavy weapon isn't ap 1,2 or 3 or strength 8+, volume of fire is your only solution.

Also, notabot: I'm willing to sacrifice the ability to hide behind a smoked rhino and shoot in exchange for getting the same volume of firepower on a unit that is also incredibly powerful in cc. Purgation squads are just too limited in scope in an army that doesn't really favor specialist units.

though i like the math, i think your forgetting rending. Like i said, I have already done the mech rhino/razor thing and wish to make this footslogging. I do agree with purgation squads not being worth it though. This has fallen of topic, so 5 halbreds, 4 psycannons and a hammer a viable loadout?

pjmcgrath07 wrote:10-4 psycannons, 1 daemonhammer, 5 halbreds
10-4 psycannons, 1 daemonhammer, 5 halbreds
10-2 incinerators, 2psylincers, 1 daemon hammer, 5 halbreds

pjmcgrath07 wrote:10-2 incinerators, 2psylincers, 1 daemon hammer, 5 halbreds

pjmcgrath07 wrote:2psylincers

pjmcgrath07 wrote:psylincer

No no no no no

5man + psycannons + rhino + a few minor cc upgrades (i.e a hammer). Mobile pillbox.

10man + 4 psycannons + rhino + more cc upgrades. 4 psycannons stay behind, 5man squad aim to excel in close-combat.

As above; Everyone rides in rhino, dump them in the mid-field and just ask for that charge. Equip with halberds.

10man + 4psycannons, no rhino. Again, same as above but merely a footslogging theme.

So the generally trend is to either fire 2 cannons from a rhino or to move that rhino 12" and dump them (the following turn). Cleansing flame and halberds, combined with an excellent shooty potential makes the squad amazing at receiving charges.

In addition, either Crowe or a GKGM can morph them into troop's - so it really won't hurt to use them heavily, given the cost-effectiveness of a cheap 110pt DS strike squad.

notabot187 wrote:
schadenfreude: There is no such thing as overkill.
.

Really? you beleive that? I have to deal with overkill by railgun everytime i play, as all you really need to do is hit, and pass and inv. saves.


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Bruteboss wrote: Purgation squads are just too limited in scope in an army that doesn't really favor specialist units.

Thank you! That's what I was saying!

purgation squads are limited in that they dont provide anything i dont already have in my troop choices. I have squads with 4 psycannons already and they are troops who have more attacks, better leadership and have a better power. The purgation can use astral aim but then they grant a cover save. I just dont see the need for them as they aren't providing any new weapons or real worthwhile abilities.

ph34r-thanks for all the help. real way to contribute...

im2randomghgh wrote:

notabot187 wrote:
schadenfreude: There is no such thing as overkill.
.

Really? you beleive that? I have to deal with overkill by railgun everytime i play, as all you really need to do is hit, and pass and inv. saves.

Yes, I really believe that. There is only open fire and I need to reload reload. Also, if you are leaving scorch marks, you need a bigger gun. http://schlockmercenary.wikia.com/wiki/The_Seventy_Maxims_of_Maximally_Effective_Mercenaries After all, there is cover saves, armor saves, and when you need to rend, a higher volume is preferred for consistent results.

I'm not sure what you mean by overkill with railguns either. I've seen many a situation where S10 wasn't an autokill, or even pen a vehicle. The only problem with tau shooting is they don't get enough of them.

@pjmcgrath07: He really was contributing, just in his own way. Psilencers are god awful. A heavy weapon that just fires S4 shooting in an army with S4 assault weapons just doesn't make much sense at all. It is complete garbage, and shouldn't even be considered by any unit that isn't relentless. Even then there is always a better option than this trash. It is better to take the DEFAULT options (which are fine as is) than to take a weapon that won't even fire if you move, and takes away your force weapon, and when it does fire only shoots a higher volume of shots with strength that you don't care about. Its special rule is not worth having to deal with the rest of its problems.

Ok,

1st off, Purifiers do NOT need Incinerators. they have Cleansing Flame for crowd control while the Psycannon can deal with armor.



Now i would drop the number of psycannons to 2 per squad. more then that and you lose CC ability.



for CCWs. you want to be well rounded. to that end i think the best ratio is 1 DH, 2 pairs of Falchions, and the rest Halbards(for 10 man squads. for smaller its better to do 1 pair of Falchions)

my main reasoning is that the Swords don't give you anything so you might as well upgrade to the cheapo Halbards.


Halbards have the High I, Falchions have millions of attacks, and the DH is for those Tanks/MCs. you also have 2 Psycannons.

a squad with this set up will run 289 points. 6 points cheaper then your Psycannon squads and much more well rounded.

notabot187 wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean by overkill with railguns either. I've seen many a situation where S10 wasn't an autokill, or even pen a vehicle. The only problem with tau shooting is they don't get enough of them.

railguns are probably the easiest weapon to overkill with in WH40K, especially when firing on light/medium vehicle. A trio of broadsides will more of then not overkill when firing on a landspeeder. with 75% accuracy that's 2.25 hits at STR 10 AP 1. Overkill most of the time. I have overkilled most vehicles, sometimes even super-heavies (baneblades, monoliths etc.). With targeting array, the broadsides have 89% accuracy, which means amazing accurracy with a weapon that has maxed out stats and 182cm range...overkill.

im2randomghgh wrote:

notabot187 wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean by overkill with railguns either. I've seen many a situation where S10 wasn't an autokill, or even pen a vehicle. The only problem with tau shooting is they don't get enough of them.

railguns are probably the easiest weapon to overkill with in WH40K, especially when firing on light/medium vehicle. A trio of broadsides will more of then not overkill when firing on a landspeeder. with 75% accuracy that's 2.25 hits at STR 10 AP 1. Overkill most of the time. I have overkilled most vehicles, sometimes even super-heavies (baneblades, monoliths etc.). With targeting array, the broadsides have 89% accuracy, which means amazing accurracy with a weapon that has maxed out stats and 182cm range...overkill.

So if you fire at a land speeder with S10 twin links you are going to overkill it? Nah, you are just going to kill it with prejudice. The rules don't support overkill, it has no ingame effect (well ap1 makes explosions happen more often, but that is a good thing). Also, 3 twin linked shots at a speeder isn't even a sure kill. Lets say you hit 3 times, auto pen, but they get a 4+ save from cover or moving fast. So 1.5 pens. You destroy on either a 3 or 4 (depending on trubo boosting), so it is quite possible you fail to destroy. If their is a chance you don't destroy your target, it isn't possible to be overkill.

notabot187 wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

notabot187 wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean by overkill with railguns either. I've seen many a situation where S10 wasn't an autokill, or even pen a vehicle. The only problem with tau shooting is they don't get enough of them.

railguns are probably the easiest weapon to overkill with in WH40K, especially when firing on light/medium vehicle. A trio of broadsides will more of then not overkill when firing on a landspeeder. with 75% accuracy that's 2.25 hits at STR 10 AP 1. Overkill most of the time. I have overkilled most vehicles, sometimes even super-heavies (baneblades, monoliths etc.). With targeting array, the broadsides have 89% accuracy, which means amazing accurracy with a weapon that has maxed out stats and 182cm range...overkill.

So if you fire at a land speeder with S10 twin links you are going to overkill it? Nah, you are just going to kill it with prejudice. The rules don't support overkill, it has no ingame effect (well ap1 makes explosions happen more often, but that is a good thing). Also, 3 twin linked shots at a speeder isn't even a sure kill. Lets say you hit 3 times, auto pen, but they get a 4+ save from cover or moving fast. So 1.5 pens. You destroy on either a 3 or 4 (depending on trubo boosting), so it is quite possible you fail to destroy. If their is a chance you don't destroy your target, it isn't possible to be overkill.

In a game that involves dice, there is ALWAYS a chance to not destroy.

@notabot187 - what your doing is contributing. I didn't ask if i should take them but rather what loadouts. I find it useless to just simply answer no. You explained your point of view. I thought they would be useful for psyker and daemons but no attachment to them. Maybe more psycannons or leave that group with just the incinerators/stormbolters

@Grey Templar - you think falchions are really justified, i mean i would still be putting out cleansing flame attacks & 12 i6 force weapon attacks if charged. The falchions would give me 2 more attacks but id be losing the i6 on 6 of my total attacks. I felt that they were better on units charging where here i think these units will be recieving the charge. Could be interesting to try out though...

I'll have to play test them and see if 4 psycannons is just too many to have as it starts to hamper cc ability or is the s7 4shots rending worth the melee sacrifice?

with the whole overkill issue, i think that the 5th edition damage chart lends itself to not real overkill. Though your lascannon maybe s9 and your psycannon only s7, once you get that pen its all up to the table. Your +2 strenght doesnt contribute ONCE you have penned which i dont think is correct but alas if neither are ap1 then its all square going into the chart

a couple of Falchion dudes in a 10 man squad(or 1 in a five man) is good as they can cover for the guys carrying a psycannon who lose their force weapons to carry the big gun.

and they help in case Cleansing Flame wiffs.

pjmcgrath07 wrote:
with the whole overkill issue, i think that the 5th edition damage chart lends itself to not real overkill. Though your lascannon maybe s9 and your psycannon only s7, once you get that pen its all up to the table. Your +2 strenght doesnt contribute ONCE you have penned which i dont think is correct but alas if neither are ap1 then its all square going into the chart

yes but it increases the likeliness of getting a pen. Ya.


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