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Hi Dakka, Lately I have been reading through the space marine battle novels and I have noticed that when they are fighting orks, thjey are somtimes out-smarted and get really p***ed of when the orks out-smart them and later on in the book they talk about orks like they are idiots, so now I am wondering if orks are much smarter than what they are given credit for, what do you think ?

I would not call it intelligence. It is more similar to an animal's instinct, or a beast's cunning tricks. But it is perfectly true that orks are very often underestimated by other races.

They have this reputation of being complete idiots mainly because of their relatively primitive tech, along with their favorite tactic of charging up the middle yelling and shooting at anything moving.

In addition, this unsuspected intelligence among orks is only found with a few exceptional individuals that usually end up occupying positions of power (like warboss or big mek), and thus transmit their intelligence to the rest of the warband.

But most orks are definitely retards.

Please don't use the words "slow" or "slowed" as synonyms for "idiot" or "stupid" or in any other derogatory sense.

Thanks!

Manchu

When Orks are described as stupid it's just the person being arrogant.

They appear stupid because they are crude. The truth is that they just have no interest in the things we see as signs of intelligence. We seem Orks as unable to advance and as brutish and violent but that is just the way orks behave. They are clever enough to advance and live peacefully but why would they want to. As an eldar is quoted as saying in the ork codex, they are perfectly happy as they are, from thier perspective ork society is perfect.

When it comes to directing their attention to tasks which they enjoy, they are suprising good at thinking. Because of the way they behave they think in a much more primitive way. Instead of questioning why a plan is good they just have an instinctive idea of what to do.

If you look at the blood axes they have reasoned thinking when it comes to war and regularly outsmart imperial generals. They are clever enough to make deals with humans and to not just kill everything in sight.

Yeah, I have noticed that everyone is shocked in sm novels when orks out-smart them. In purging of Kaddilus Nazdreg (I think it was him) out-smarted the chaplin, even though the chaplin assumed he knew what the orks were doing. It is allways funny when the impirium thinks it has worked out what the orks will do.

Aaah, the irony of smarter being spelt incorrectly. Classic.

I wouldn't say they're exactly smart, but they are more... 'cunning'. They're not exactly going to write the dictionary of win the nobel prize, but they shouldn't be underestimated, the intelligent ones get into positions of power and they can be quite intelligent in matters war-related IMHO.

They aren't dumb or stupid or slowed...
They just mostly of the times think that tactics are un-orky but sometimes the warboss or somebody else says that mork (or gork) is cunningly brutal so then they apply some orky strategiez.
But you can't call them smart anyway, they also have a nice animal instinct....

Ork strategy and tactics are akin to an angler fish's "tactics" of catching prey. It's all instinctual.

Yes, orks aren't going to come up with complicated military tactics such as outflanking and all that. The truth is they don't need to. And orks recognise this. They know they don't need this as there's enough of them and they're strong enough to go without tactics. One can't deny the orks lack of intelligence is holding them back.

However there are orks who are probably slightly more intelligent than the others. Kommandos and stormboyz spring to mind. True stormboyz probably like the thrill of zooming through the air with a jetpack, but both groups recoginize the advantage of closing with the enemy quicker and taking out key units which may have otherwise hindered the orks' advance.

They did invent a force field...do the space marines have one of those?

They can also operate eldar technology, imperium technology, sm tech, tau technology, somehow figure out how to take a bright lance, a predator and a catapult to make a rolling terror of mixmashed advanced technology that actually operates.

Is intelligence how well spoken one is, or how creative one is to solving the current problem at the moment, such as sneaking up on the chaplain, sometimes all it takes is a giant rocket strapped to your back screaming as you drop down ontop of him. Ork idea of stealth yields the same end goal of surprise attack, just the execution is a bit different.

For the average Boy, partaking in tactics in combat is like a child employing tactics on a bouncy castle. What would be the point? As long as bouncing (combat) occurs, everything is peachy.

However as they live longer, surviving through more and more fights, they grow. Not just their muscles, but their brains as well. They do become smarter. Thats why you have Nobz, Bosses and Warbosses who understand tactical concepts because a battle won means you are more likely to survive and thus more likely to see yourself stuck into another fight.

Orks have a different approach and conception of intelligence than humans. Underestimating their cunning and ability to problem solve ends with you on the wrong side of a Kommando choppa.

who needs to invent all the tech when you can be the one who knows how to operate it all and combine it in new and interesting ways!

Orks are very smart.

For example;

Ork meks can use warp travel and teleportation to send a unit of grotz into a target (yes, into as in inside)
Not really subtle, but it shows they have a very good grasp on tech.

However, orks are more artificial intelligence.
Its all instinct with them on the most part, they are simply born into a role.

The fact that there is also a great deal of mystery about them still is another thing.

Weapons like shootas cant be fired by anyone but orks.
Its simply believed that the orks sheer willpower makes them work.
While this is hard to grasp, its true.


Much like red vehicles going faster.

Lets face it, have marines designed a paint that allows a vehicle faster movement yet?
Its all willpower and belief with them.

DrCrook wrote:They did invent a force field...do the space marines have one of those?

They can also operate eldar technology, imperium technology, sm tech, tau technology, somehow figure out how to take a bright lance, a predator and a catapult to make a rolling terror of mixmashed advanced technology that actually operates.

Is intelligence how well spoken one is, or how creative one is to solving the current problem at the moment, such as sneaking up on the chaplain, sometimes all it takes is a giant rocket strapped to your back screaming as you drop down ontop of him. Ork idea of stealth yields the same end goal of surprise attack, just the execution is a bit different.

Not to mention that they actually will things to work. It can be argued (or indisputable) that Orks are the strongest psykers in the universe because insinctually they can will things to work that otherwise would not work if someone else tried to operate it. All they need to do is believe that it will fire, and it will.

DrCrook wrote:They did invent a force field...do the space marines have one of those?

They can also operate eldar technology, imperium technology, sm tech, tau technology, somehow figure out how to take a bright lance, a predator and a catapult to make a rolling terror of mixmashed advanced technology that actually operates.

Is intelligence how well spoken one is, or how creative one is to solving the current problem at the moment, such as sneaking up on the chaplain, sometimes all it takes is a giant rocket strapped to your back screaming as you drop down ontop of him. Ork idea of stealth yields the same end goal of surprise attack, just the execution is a bit different.

Orks follow their instints through a few are smart and are part of the few that become leaders, but not always great ones.

ORKS ARE SUPER SMART FTW!

Orks can learn aswell, if they work out humans are communicating using a comms tower the warboss wants to destroy it. (I think that was in rynns world)

Orks are different, not plain stupid as such. They just don't bother with useless questions when all can be solved by using enough dakka or axes.

Orks are just as capable of tactical decisions and learning from experience as humans are. However, due to their alien nature and thus different logic patterns and biological imperatives, we might see them as crude or even stupid.

Orks are brilliant in their field of expertise. The average boy is a brilliant and highly skilled hand to hand combatant, able to stand toe to toe with a Space Marine in raw melee skill. A mekboy is a mad scientist whose brilliance (and madness) is constantly increasing the more he does his little mad science. A warboss is a brilliant strategist and tactician, as well as a cunning leader of Orks (And humans occasionally) And so on and so forth.

Claiming this intelligence is artificial is misleading. A horse doesn't need to be taught how to stand up like a human does-- it will stand up within an hour or two of being born. Orks are much the same way, they mature differently than we humans do, and by the time they leave the little spore sac and claw their way to the surface to join the warband as a yoof they have developed to the point of adolescence.

A recently born common yoof doesn't know what flanking is... but they know how to flank, after all, mork sez hit 'em 'ard when dey ain't lookin'. A recently born mekboy doesn't know what a tank is... but he knows the fundamentals of mechanics. A dok doesn't know the name for at squirty little organ right there or that funny looking bone over here, but he understands their function, and the rudiments of biology and chemistry.

Eldar Own wrote:orks aren't going to come up with complicated military tactics such as outflanking

Uhm... yes. They are.

Melissia wrote:.

Eldar Own wrote:orks aren't going to come up with complicated military tactics such as outflanking

Uhm... yes. They are.

Keep sayin' that, Eldarface, it gives my Kommandos the time they need to sneak up and stab you in the unmentionables.

Orks haven't been "stupid" in a long time. They are described as being as smart as humans just more direct in their thinking.

Heck, they out flanked Farsight in the codex, and then looted an entire tau base because they need the dakka to compete in the fire fights. If an Imperial suggested that they might get shot for heresy or something.

Jackal wrote:

Weapons like shootas cant be fired by anyone but orks.
Its simply believed that the orks sheer willpower makes them work.
While this is hard to grasp, its true.

Catachan ork hunters, They use shootas.

Now the whole red makeing it go faster, theres no way to explain that

TPSOhuzzar wrote:

Catachan ork hunters, They use shootas.

Citation needed

Ork weapons are usable by humans in Dark Heresy, they're just less reliable in human hands (not designed for humans after all). And there's people using Ork weapons and vehicles in the Cain books.

DrCrook wrote:They did invent a force field...do the space marines have one of those?

They can also operate eldar technology, imperium technology, sm tech, tau technology, somehow figure out how to take a bright lance, a predator and a catapult to make a rolling terror of mixmashed advanced technology that actually operates.

If you read the codex it says that orks are psykers and if they believe in something it'll work...

That is the irony of the Orks, they are quite possibly the most powerful psykers out there, but they don't know it.

DAWARBOSS wrote:

DrCrook wrote:They did invent a force field...do the space marines have one of those?

They can also operate eldar technology, imperium technology, sm tech, tau technology, somehow figure out how to take a bright lance, a predator and a catapult to make a rolling terror of mixmashed advanced technology that actually operates.

If you read the codex it says that orks are psykers and if they believe in something it'll work...

No it doesn't.

Maybe it was retconned, but my 3rd edition codex clearly states in a little blurb that ork shootas wont fire if held by humans.

It goes on further to state their psychic collective wills their technology into utility.

AdeptusAssfartes wrote:Maybe it was retconned, but my 3rd edition codex clearly states in a little blurb that ork shootas wont fire if held by humans.

It's been long since retconned, yes.