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Orks aren't smart. They're kunnin'.

Besides, the knowledge they need to do certain things has actually been encoded in their dna by the old ones.

Jackal wrote:Orks are very smart.

For example;

Ork meks can use warp travel and teleportation to send a unit of grotz into a target (yes, into as in inside)
Not really subtle, but it shows they have a very good grasp on tech.

However, orks are more artificial intelligence.
Its all instinct with them on the most part, they are simply born into a role.

The fact that there is also a great deal of mystery about them still is another thing.

Weapons like shootas cant be fired by anyone but orks.
Its simply believed that the orks sheer willpower makes them work.
While this is hard to grasp, its true.


Much like red vehicles going faster.

Lets face it, have marines designed a paint that allows a vehicle faster movement yet?
Its all willpower and belief with them.

Good point and oh so true. Orks are all about instinct. yes some have been known to show tactical prowess only through facing the same foes repeatedly knowing how that race will react and in how long they will usually take to do it so to strike before they have time to react. (case in point in "Rynn's World") win for orks

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Orks haven't been "stupid" in a long time. They are described as being as smart as humans just more direct in their thinking.

I remember when Orks were the kind of comedy factor race. They've always been a race that loved to fight but they've definitely got more kunnin' and stealfy over the years. I do miss their old incarnation a bit as I think that's what drew me to them in the first place. I did think about digging out my old 2nd Ed Ork army and starting anew with them but the codex left me a bit empty inside.

Don't get me wrong they still sound fun to play and have great characters and background, I just preferred the slightly denser, slightly crazier, version. I think the Orks from the original Dawn of War is a spot on interpretation of how I imagine they would be.

But on topic, Orks should never be underestimated as they have many kunnin' plans, no matter how stupid they might act or look. Warfare is what they were created for after all.

It is widely believed in Ork soceity that machines painted in a red colour operate faster. As disturbing as it sounds, 'facts' such as this become true. Many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment do not work unless wuelded by an ork. I theorise that many ork inventions work because the orks themselves think they should work. the strong telekinetic abilities of the ork subconscious somehow ensure they function as desired.

Genetor Lukas Anzion
Hereditary skill acquisition within the ork caste.

page 10 ork codex

And I cant believe I got suckered into a fluff debate excuse me as I go shower like a rape victim

Jackal wrote:Orks are very smart.

For example;

Ork meks can use warp travel and teleportation to send a unit of grotz into a target (yes, into as in inside)
Not really subtle, but it shows they have a very good grasp on tech.

However, orks are more artificial intelligence.
Its all instinct with them on the most part, they are simply born into a role.

The fact that there is also a great deal of mystery about them still is another thing.

Weapons like shootas cant be fired by anyone but orks.
Its simply believed that the orks sheer willpower makes them work.
While this is hard to grasp, its true.


Much like red vehicles going faster.

Lets face it, have marines designed a paint that allows a vehicle faster movement yet?
Its all willpower and belief with them.

That's their magic! If the orks believe it will work than it will work.
Weirdboy's take that energy out of the air and make powerful magic with that to.

jelisi wrote:That's their magic! If the orks believe it will work than it will work.

Once again, that is not true. Ork technology works.

A significant portion of the ork armory only works because the orks believe it works. Most of the rest is looted. The fluff supports this. however, the question at hand, is whether they are smarter than we give tham credit for. the answer to that is yes. after all, "imperial doctrine" declares that orks come on in endless waves. (taken from the fluff about Snikrot) yet Snikrot, and other Kommandos have been known to get in and get out without a trace. in fact, Snikrot was able to deduce, from a small number of bad scraps, that the Catachan guardsmen deployed to Armageddon were superior jungle fighters, and learned how to beat them at their own game. now he is more feared than Ghazkull.

Big Mek Dattrukk wrote:A significant portion of the ork armory only works because the orks believe it works

False. A significant portion of the Ork armoury works no matter who holds it, it just works better in the hands of an Ork. There's a very distinct difference.

Melissia wrote:

Big Mek Dattrukk wrote:A significant portion of the ork armory only works because the orks believe it works

False. A significant portion of the Ork armoury works no matter who holds it, it just works better in the hands of an Ork. There's a very distinct difference.

no weapons made for an ork will not work in the hands of anyone else.

Orkymike wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Big Mek Dattrukk wrote:A significant portion of the ork armory only works because the orks believe it works

False. A significant portion of the Ork armoury works no matter who holds it, it just works better in the hands of an Ork. There's a very distinct difference.

no weapons made for an ork will not work in the hands of anyone else.

Yes they will, and I've already provided citations where they have.

The likelihood that the 'orks are as intelligent as chickens' party will change their minds is the same likelihood that the grass will turn bright purple without outside influence. They are stubborn and unlikely to change their dogma.

Melissia wrote:

AdeptusAssfartes wrote:Maybe it was retconned, but my 3rd edition codex clearly states in a little blurb that ork shootas wont fire if held by humans.

It's been long since retconned, yes.

Yergh, and people say female marines would be blasphemy

lol

So is the arguement now that orks are dumb because they use their superior psyker abilities to mash silly advanced technology together to make it work?

From my understanding that is extremely intelligent, I mean come on, they are leveraging their psyker abilities to make super advanced tech that nobody else can use? Too bad the rest of the races can't get on that wagon.

BTW, Im not a big fluff junkie, but how exactly does one become a psyker in the 40k universe? In alot of other sci fi type books its usually something along the lines of the psyker has a part of their brain that is just too damn big and over powered, so it is able to manifest physically as well, following that logic, and the general consensus that orks are the best psykers, so powerful in fact that red paint makes trukks go fasta and weapons fire and nobody else can use them, would that not mean they are infact the MOST INTELLIGENT race?

One of the biggest designs in super powered weapons nowadays is a security measure so that an enemy force can not leverage that weapon against them, assuming a typical increased technological curve as the 40k universe implies, there will still be some sort of mechanism (albeit more advanced) each race will attempt to put in place to prevent their best weapons from being used against them. The orks can bypass that, mash them all together and make a new weapon that nobody can use. Now thats smart!

BTW, don't know about you guys, but a large majority of the sci fi novels and movies I enjoy if there is a person who can use their mind to will things to happen, its usually because they are too smart for their physical being to contain. Just read/watch Matilda...oh yeah, I went there.

Fluff debates are a bit of fun, always fun to ruffle some feathers of some hard core fanatics.

I personnaly think they use telekinetic abilaties to use their weapons, if they were psykers surely blanks and tyranids would beet them easily because they would stop their weapons working. Some ork technolidgy does not need an ork to use it, yarrick has a powerklaw and other races can probably use some of their technolidgy.

But anyway the topic is not weather orks are psykers.

Oh and Btw DrCrook, how someone becomes a psyker is WAAAAY of topic

Orks are a relic from the days when the fluff tended toward the really, really silly as opposed to the really silly and frustrating. They were a comic race that essentially used garbage as weapons. In order to have them compete on the game table they were 'back-fluffed' to say that they had the ability to make the improbable possible by some innate psychic ability.

I prefer to see them as cunning, but not very 'bright' on average. The Mekboyz being the 'idiot savants' of the group. It's a fun race to play considering all the grimdarkness of the other races... well, except the Tau, they make me laugh just because...

Uhlan wrote:Orks are a relic

No, that's Space Marines. Orks are the interesting part, not the relic.

They are the unending horde of barbarians at the gates-- whose brute strength and cunning mind will bash through your defenses-- or slip around them-- so that they can destroy everything you love. Their biology is simple and lends to their brutality, and their culture is so alien to us that very few humans can truly understand the Orkoid mindset.

Pilau Rice wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Orks haven't been "stupid" in a long time. They are described as being as smart as humans just more direct in their thinking.

I remember when Orks were the kind of comedy factor race. They've always been a race that loved to fight but they've definitely got more kunnin' and stealfy over the years. I do miss their old incarnation a bit as I think that's what drew me to them in the first place. I did think about digging out my old 2nd Ed Ork army and starting anew with them but the codex left me a bit empty inside.

Don't get me wrong they still sound fun to play and have great characters and background, I just preferred the slightly denser, slightly crazier, version. I think the Orks from the original Dawn of War is a spot on interpretation of how I imagine they would be.

But on topic, Orks should never be underestimated as they have many kunnin' plans, no matter how stupid they might act or look. Warfare is what they were created for after all.

Yeah, DoW Orks are the best. I love it when you click on a building and they just yell "ORKS! ORKS! ORKS! ORKS!"

Ugh. I vastly preferred the less comical and more serious DoW2 orks.

Orkymike wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Big Mek Dattrukk wrote:A significant portion of the ork armory only works because the orks believe it works

False. A significant portion of the Ork armoury works no matter who holds it, it just works better in the hands of an Ork. There's a very distinct difference.

no weapons made for an ork will not work in the hands of anyone else.

Most weapons made by Orks do not work for other people.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:Ugh. I vastly preferred the less comical and more serious DoW2 orks.

That's makes one of you

No.... most weapons made by orks DO work for other people. It's the really crazy stuff that requires a mekboy to use.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:Ugh. I vastly preferred the less comical and more serious DoW2 orks.

That's makes one of you

I prefer Orks as the brutal and cunning barbarians at the gates as presented in Dow2 than the laughable, weak, and pathetic jokes that they are in DoW1.

Many shootas and other equipment found by humans upon closer inspection does not work. Some shootas that were just shooting previously when stripped down are revealed to not possible have actually been working. It's as if the gun is firing through sheer force of will on the orks part.

And yet, Ciaphas Cain and his followers used Ork equipment and weapons for days and only one trukk broke down (frankly, if Orks were riding it that would have been a pretty good month, trukks and other ork vehicles are notorious for their malfunctions)

Ah, that Cain. He's a zany one.

Yes Cain is zany. I have allways like the idea of ork cunning. The thought of a horde of orks outside of a fortress wall whilst the defenders watch in fear and then suddenly the alarms go of and a group of Kommandos has gotten in and opens the gates allowing the horde in. Who dose not like the concept of that ?

Indeed. Or the ORks are hiding stormboyz in their number, and all fo the sudden a roar of sound bursts from the boyz and stormboyz come flyin' in.

I think I like the comical orks the best. The ones who wear pirate jackets, shove grots strapped to rockets into cannons etc.

pst moonshine...read the whole post and you'll understand why how becoming a psyker in the 40k universe is relevant to my point on orkz being intelligent.

I think it would be neat to run a poll at the end of this and see what the over-all consensus is...Anybody know how to set that up?

gosh, I really don't have much to do today do I...lets see, cold, rainy...and cloud computing homework to put off...yeah, I know why Im in here, lol

DrCrook wrote:I think I like the comical orks the best. The ones who wear pirate jackets, shove grots strapped to rockets into cannons etc.

What's wrong with wearing pirate jackets and hats? You can be serious and wear those. And it's not like Orks have much other use for grots,

Melissia wrote:

DrCrook wrote:I think I like the comical orks the best. The ones who wear pirate jackets, shove grots strapped to rockets into cannons etc.

What's wrong with wearing pirate jackets and hats? You can be serious and wear those. And it's not like Orks have much other use for grots,

That made me laugh.

THAT is the comedy of Orks. Orks are completely serious, their funny bits are more funny because they're so bizarre to our culture, rather than because they're simply nonsensical. What Orks do is just as rational as what we do... it just uses a different set of base reasoning than we would because Orks don't have the same societal problems we do.

Ok so most weapons made by the orks do not work in human hands. if the weapons were looted from another race then im sure it would work if someone were to use it other than an ork. (at least IMHO)