Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

.... again, most of them do work in non-Ork hands.

They just work BETTER in Ork hands (IE, going from unreliable and prone to jamming, to perfectly crafted weapons of destruction).

I think I can agree with that. Not sure why what appears to nothing more than an Ork autogun has as much kick as a bolter other than " 'every git know an ork shootas got more dakka "

The problem with the whole "Ork technology works because they think it should" only occurs due to the quote by a Imperial in the Ork codex. Personally, I don't think this can be counted as fact, since the Imperium believes all technology works because the machine spirit. So it stands to reason that technology that works simply because it was built properly is odd to them. Also, consider that in the fluff, the Imperium rarely acknowledges Orks as intelligent(otherwise would be heresy), so this also has to do with it most likely.

many good points thrown back and forth here, i was afraid i might lose an eye.
i've always viewed it like this: an ork can take a handful of shells of random caliber and cram them into a clip, and they work in his shoota, in part, simply because of the belief that it should work. but one ork by himself won't have much luck. they aren't so much powerful psykers as they all constantly generate a low-level hum. the more ya have, the better things go. their more bizarre technologies are partially fueled by the belief that they should work, but their chaotic mindset tends to make things unpredictable. that, and their utter lack of fear. i don't think orks experience real fear, so much as a shallow, prolonged form of fright that serves as survival instinct. which is why they've come closer to perfecting warp travel and teleportation than most others; they fear neither failure or the the perils of the warp. however, they are less adept at passing these things from generation to generation than even the crudest oral cultures in human history. how far back can eldar, imperial, or tau histories be traced, even with gaps? milennia, eons, etc. how far back does known ork history go? to any nob, maybe a couple decades before he was born, and even then he would only know the best tales of the fiercest bosses, like wazdakka gutsmek flying his flaming bike into the command center of a titan and slaughtering the crew....

Astute analysis new guy/lurker.

thanks.
as an addendum, one might note that orks are constantly, and redundantly, reinventing things that have been made before. different parts go in, and they 'work' in different ways, but they accomplish the same goals.
orks are a lazy lot, though, hence the prevalence of looting, and enslavement of entire manufacturing facilities to produce weapons and war machines.
without standards for designs and such, their own constructions should vary wildly. it's like that show that used to be on the discovery channel, 'monster garage'. if you took a dozen teams of mechanics and gave them all the same goal, you'd get a dozen different designs for the same function. i try very hard to make my ork vehicles reflect this; my looted wagon is a chimera, my dread is a sentinel, one trukk is built as per instructions, another made to look like humungus's truck from 'the road warrior', and yet another is converted from a wwii german half-track. my warbuggies, hard as they are to make different just because of their size, are even different. i won't go into battlewagons, as i'm still building my first, except for a small hint: a '37 ford sedan and an m4 sherman tank, mated together...

Oh, they do pass on things through word of mouth style legend in the oldest of ork kingdoms.

But what an Ork really wants to pass down through the ages isn't history... it's deeds, or techology in the case of mekboyz. Mekboyz do advance Ork tech regularly, and it oftentimes finds itself disseminating across the galaxy.

Yeah meks do improve or technolidgy, just read the purging of Kadillus and you will agree

Orks arn't really dumb,they just have a single drive and don't care much about the risks.

In DOW it even says don't mistake their single-mindedness for stupidity.

Look at it this way the shok attack gun and Stompa are all Ork inventions.
They just invented them to further their single minded drive for war.

Also, look at it this way. Orks are just as capable of all the things considered high-tech that the Imperium can do. More, in fact, as Orks still invent new items, whereas the Imperium relies on STC technology to function.

well, that weas certainly a fun discussion! So I guess the general consensus is...
Comical orks are cool, and they aren't dumb, they just attempt to do things whole heartedly with no fear...what a wonderful race!

Melissia wrote:Oh, they do pass on things through word of mouth style legend in the oldest of ork kingdoms.

that's what the term 'oral culture' refers to, even though orks are not strictly such, as they do have a crude glyph language. but the codex doesn't give much specific history prior to the rise of ghazkull.
and just as an observation, the term 'word of mouth style legend' is a tad wordy. if you want to convince people to at least consider believing your ideas, don't use five words where two will do.

Crude?
Would you call Egyptian Hyroglyphics crude?
Or the Roman language? Just because we cannot say it using English doesn't make it crude.

Ork glyphs are simplistic and uncomplex, because they are a very straightforward culture.

So straightforward that it's actually hard for us humans, whom are complex, to comprehend them many times.

They're able to travel through space to other planets, which even though it seems by accident, is still more advanced than what we're capable of now. I'd call that intelligent.

Orkymike wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Big Mek Dattrukk wrote:A significant portion of the ork armory only works because the orks believe it works

False. A significant portion of the Ork armoury works no matter who holds it, it just works better in the hands of an Ork. There's a very distinct difference.

no weapons made for an ork will not work in the hands of anyone else.

I don't think it's that black and white. There's a reference to an Adeptus Mechanicus adept taking apart an Ork Shoota only to discover it has no moving parts inside.

That's awesome

On the Red Wunz Go Fasta, which is my favourite rule, fluff and concept in any fictional ever, in one of the compilation books, some Ork Kommandoz paint their boots red so they can get into combat first.

Orks have a specialized intelligence, which from the point of view of an outside observer, makes them look stupid.

In reality, your average ork isn't that smart. He's not dumb as a brick stupid, he's probably around human intelligence.

Then you have the ork specialists, caused by what is theorized by the imperium as genetic modifications implimented by the progentors. They are, in many ways, idiot savants, able to do many things far and above more complicated than your average human or ork, but not alot else.

A big part of this is the differences in education required. For example, a human electronics specialist requires years of education in order to design electronic circuitry. An Ork Mekboy will almost instinctively understand such electronics. The assumption is that the human is smarter because he understands the underlying causes of why the electronics work. In reality, he doesn't. What he understands is a system of rules that mimic and simplify reality, while the mekboy doesn't need to do so to get to the same end result.

And of course, neither are qualified as medical doctors/painboys just because they are good at electronics.

The strength of the human mind when compared to the ork is that the human is capable of a much more diverse "understanding" of the universe. The disadvantage is that it takes them many years to get to this point.

When talking about ork psychics, realize that orks are more of a "hive psychic". The more orks, the more psychic power.

Heffling wrote:Orks have a specialized intelligence

I don't think their intelligence is specialized so much as their culture makes them focus their intelligence in a different way than we would.

A magnetic driver has no moving parts yet shoots projectiles....
Heck, if you thought laterally enough you could use water I suppose as an accelerant. Or air....

Just because we cannot explain it, doesn't mean its psychic.

the_ferrett wrote:A magnetic driver has no moving parts yet shoots projectiles....
Heck, if you thought laterally enough you could use water I suppose as an accelerant. Or air....

Just because we cannot explain it, doesn't mean its psychic.

Dude, it says in the codex that orks are very powerfull psykers, capable of making anything they build, as long as they believe in it, work. Were not assuming or guessing, were just saying what the codex says.

Weirdboyz are powerful psykers. Ork boyz are not.

There are numerous examples of non-Orks using Ork equipment and it working. Ork equipment doesn't have to be in the hands of an Ork to work... it just works BETTER in the hands of an Ork. There's a very distinct difference.

In Dark Heresy this is explained thusly-- wielded by a non-Ork, a shoota is unreliable (it has a bigger chance ot jam). Wielded by an Ork, it's reliable (it basically never jams).

Orks do may their tech work properly by thinking it will but it's not as powerful as a lot of people think it is.

Shootas that have no internal parts won't fire even when an ork uses it. Shootas that are missing a small part or that have slight damage will only work for orks.

Their psychic ability fixes small problems (bad ammo, worn parts, or just generally making it more powerful) but it doesn't turn a lump of metal into a shoota.

That's because Orks aren't psykers as we think of them.

Orks instead generate a gestalt psychic field-- aside from weirdboyz, Orks have no actual psychic powers, but this gestalt field has minor effects on other Orks and on objects Orks are using, making them more efficient depending on the confidence of the Orks involved (and the more Orks involved, the more confident they are).

This phenomenom isn't unique to the Orks either. Seemly miraculous things happen on the battlefield for the sisters for example. Entire gods have lived and died in the Eldar mind.
Once upon a time the old ones created several races whose souls affected the immaterium. When these races put their minds to something very unusual things can happen...

4M2A wrote:Orks do may their tech work properly by thinking it will but it's not as powerful as a lot of people think it is.

Shootas that have no internal parts won't fire even when an ork uses it. Shootas that are missing a small part or that have slight damage will only work for orks.

Their psychic ability fixes small problems (bad ammo, worn parts, or just generally making it more powerful) but it doesn't turn a lump of metal into a shoota.

#

Sorry but this isn't true. All Orks are latent psykers. Their technology and inventions work largely because they believe it does and, conversely, it does.

Ork Codex, p10 "As disturbing as it sounds, 'facts' such as this become true. Many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment do not work unless wielded by an Ork."

Ork Codex, p93 "Orks believe that a vehicle that has been painted red can outstrip a similar vehicle that isn't. As odd as it may seem, they are quite right."

Miraclefish wrote:Ork Codex, p10 "As disturbing as it sounds, 'facts' such as this become true. Many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment do not work unless wielded by an Ork."

... which is said by Genetor Lukas Anzion.

For one, he's a Magos Genetor, and so technology is not his line of expertise to begin with. And for two, he's a Techpriest of Mars, they believe that anything that isn't Human shouldn't work.

To say that he is a dubious source is an understatement. We have actual fluff sources that show humans using Ork equipment, it doesn't fall apart in their hands, in fact it functions quite well, if a bit ramshackle.

The ork codex says MANY captured weapon not ALL, some weapons some weapons can be used by humans but most others can only be used by orks

moonshine wrote:The ork codex says MANY captured weapon not ALL, some weapons some weapons can be used by humans but most others can only be used by orks

It doesn't say that... not the most recent one. It only has a quote from said Magos Genetor, who is very unreliable.

And Dark Heresy says that most Ork weapons can be used by humans, they're just unreliable in human hands. All BL fluff about this has humans using Ork weapons without a problem-- even once I think where Astartes used these weapons.

Old fluff has been retconned, and is better for it.