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So Interceptors are expensive Assault Marines with one super-move, they are easy to forget in favor of Henchmen Warbands and Terminators but I'm an Assault Marine fan so I plan to use some. Here are some prospective loadouts I'm considering in a 1500 point list:

5 Interceptors - 155 Points
- Halberd Justicar
- 4x Halberd Interceptors

or

10 Interceptors - 305 Points
- Halberd Justicar
- 6x Halberd Interceptors
- 2x Force Sword Interceptors
- Psycannon Interceptor

or

10 Interceptors - 315 Points
- Halberd Justicar
- 6x Halberd Interceptors
- 3x Force Sword Interceptors
- Psybolt Ammunition

Using Mordrak's Grand Strategy, he gives the Interceptors and the Dreadknight in the list scout and they use their ultra-shunt if I have first turn. I also have Coteaz to protect against being seized. First turn the Dreadknight and the Interceptors assault in to key targets while Mordrak deep strikes in to relative safety due to the first-turn assaults going on. I have the Dreadknght picked out (Teleporter, Great Sword) but I'm not certain on the Interceptors. At 1500 points I only have them at 5 but i do have 170 spare points that I could spend bumping them up to 10. My issue is what wargear to best use on them when going for a first-turn assault; what seems to be the best?

The idea behind the first unit is that such a small unit needs to get every attack in before the enemy can respond, landing all 11 attacks on the charge first. The issue I see here is the overall low amount of attacks. At the same time any failed saves mean losing 5 points, as does suffering Perils. I could consider Falchions and get the unit up to a massive 21 attacks on the charge (+2 attacks per falchion, this is currently being argued though) but at I4, the unit could easily be wiped out before the strike or at the same time. This also costs an extra 25 points over the Halberds. I don't think that Force Swords is the way to go as they have no advantage over Halberds and 5 points for +2 initiative is pretty darn good.

For the 10 man squads it is an issue between a psycannon or spending an extra 10 points and get unit wide S5 shooting. I'm leaning towards the second option as the Psycannon would be killed off before the halberds in close combat but the mobile autocannon is so damn tempting. As for the close combat weapons, I've chosen them so that I have some models to kill off before the Halberds. With this tactic the second choice also benefits as keeping the halberds alive means losing 6 bonus points through killing off the force sword Interceptors while the first squad loses 10 bonus points in killing the two force swords and the psycannon. As far as assault tactics, I would have the halberds be the front line and the force swords forming a second rank, therefore the halberds hit first and if the opponent wants to hit back, they have to leave models in base contact with the halberds and therefore grant my force sword attacks.

C:GK really seems like a book that will succeed and fail depending on figuring out the proper times to purchase fancy weapons and I'm having a hard time figuring out the Interceptors. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Get 10 of them, you can grant them scouts and then combat squad them to be able to strike mord targets. You'll probably want one or two hammers so that you can go after vehicles. If you get first turn, you'll be autohitting with what will probably be S10 attacks. On that note, drop the greatsword on your DK. You get one less attack and may or may not lose S10, depending on what GW does with DCCWs in the FAQ.

Well, unless you have better plans for your FA slots, buying 2 units of 5 is better than 1 unit of 10. The main reason is points, interceptors are distraction units, they die just like any other marine, but are way more expensive. Also, if you are going to be using scout shunts, it is a good idea to get daemonhammers, to increase your potential targets. Nobody likes S10 hammers in their motor pool.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Get 10 of them, you can grant them scouts and then combat squad them to be able to strike mord targets. You'll probably want one or two hammers so that you can go after vehicles. If you get first turn, you'll be autohitting with what will probably be S10 attacks. On that note, drop the greatsword on your DK. You get one less attack and may or may not lose S10, depending on what GW does with DCCWs in the FAQ.

That would be nifty as it makes it more likely to get three scouting units but it sacrifices a free Justicar as they charge the same for the extra five marines as they do the first five. I'll consider hammers, I could drop the psybolt ammunition and upgrade two of the halberds to hammers with 10 extra points or just upgrade two of the force swords. That would take away my "meatshields" though. Auto-hitting S10 totally rocks and I was hoping to do that with my Terminators.

For the Dreadknight, even if they retain the S10 (which I doubt because otherwise the Daemonhammer would have absolutely no use and would actually be a downgrade because you lose one attack) the all-encompassing rerolls that the Great Sword gives coupled with the 2D6 Armor Penetration that he gets for being a Monstrous Creature should be more than enough to deal with most armor.

notabot187 wrote:Well, unless you have better plans for your FA slots, buying 2 units of 5 is better than 1 unit of 10. The main reason is points, interceptors are distraction units, they die just like any other marine, but are way more expensive. Also, if you are going to be using scout shunts, it is a good idea to get daemonhammers, to increase your potential targets. Nobody likes S10 hammers in their motor pool.

I would like the two different units better for the free Justicar but it means I get my full alpha strike 33% of the time on a 5+ for Grand Strategy as opposed to 66% of the time on a 3+. I'm well versed in how fragile Assault Marines are but I'm hoping to counteract this by getting them into combat with something juicy on turn one. I'll consider the hammers and possible multi-charging.

I would be curious to see your list. Fitting all that into 1500 points makes me wonder about the list as a whole and how it is intended to function. Care to post here so we can see what works for the interceptors.

yeah, we are right now looking at a good quarter of your force being a distraction.

It might be a good idea to upgrade Incinerators for them for using the 30" teleport onto an objective and them burn them and they also move 12" so after the teleport its still quite easy to use them.

I would do 5 interceptors with the Justicar toting a Daemonhammer and no upgrades on the squad beyond a single psycannon. If you go first, you can scout forward and smash up a vehicle or a Devastator-type squad pretty easily, especially if in conjunction with your Dreadknight.

You want to keep them as cheap as possible, though, as spending big points on the squad is counterintuitive to its throwaway purpose.

Am I the only one who thinks Interceptors are for shooting? They're so much better at shooting than assault already. Plus with their superior movement, they can stay out of assault as long as they feel like it.

I feel they should only be in assault as bullies or desperation.

DO NOT assault with your interceptors unless you can take out a unit and escape enemy retaliation with minimal casualties. They're much too expensive to be used as a distraction unit. They're best used as a shooty harassment unit. S5 stormbolters and psycannons who can move at 12"....yes, please, I want mo, mo, more!!!

Forget about halberds on them. Just give them 1x psycannon for 5-man squads or 2 for 10-man units. Also, if you're taking 10, give them psybolt ammo as well. Finally, you can give them 1 daemonhammer if you want, as they are more able to get to those "hard-to-reach" places where heavy support tanks hide.

I think most people will agree with you, but your entire army is equally good at shooting and the nature of Interceptors (cover saves generally = dangerous terrain tests, maneuvering for rear armor shots = within rapid fire/assault range of counterattack). Jump Infantry status alone isn't worth much in 5th ed, as it's hard to hide the unit and just about anything can take potshots at the squad.

What, then, do Interceptors actually bring to the table that is unique? In these lists specifically, the ability to deal with AV14 via autohitting S10 weapons and LF-esque squads by being a fast bully unit (which is a niche you've acknowledged). If they could also somehow get scoring status (without wasting the GKGM's very valuable GS USRs) then they'd be a lot mroe common, but low model count lists with a lot of competition for non-Troops slots (Psyflemen, Purifiers) means that Interceptor squads have to be used for something other than even MOAR PA guys dakka-ing away at 24 inches.

I don't think you're accounting for the value of teleporting in just how good at shooting and "bullying" they can be.

They can get expensive fast and technically their shooting is no better than strike squads. But teleporters really are worth the cost and an amazing force multiplier. I like to think of them as drop podding sternguard that don't scatter and can fire to full effect from 24" away.

Out of the 8 games I have played with the new GK so far, interceptors have been my mvps everytime. I run 2 full squads with psybolt ammo and psycannons, and while expensive, I can almost always rely on them to completely mess up my opponents back field each game.

They are the bane of MSU mech armies (pretty much everyone these days) and anyone that tries to deep strike. Hope you weren't planning on an accurate drop anywhere on my side of the board. Because I'm going to combat squad them and spread warp quake across every piece of open terrain I can get to (hint: pretty much all of it).

Base line interceptors are good for nothing more than distraction and minor harassment. But if you're willing to pay the points they become extremely deadly and win games all on their own.

I honestly don't see how they're any better in the shooting phase than GKST or Purifiers, but still cost a decent premium that is magnified over the more bodies you take.

They're far more mobile, no disagreement there, but your suggested loadout is 300 points/squad. At a 600 point investment, I'd still much rather have 4x GKSTs with cannon in Razorbacks for 640; same bodycount, same psycannon count, more Justicars, and 4 vehicles with T/L S6 shooting.

I have considered them with Psycannons and being a mid-range shooting platform but with how expensive they are and a lot of that cost being in their Force Weapons, it seems a waste to take Interceptors and not assault with them. Anyways, as for the list I'm considering it is a casual list filled with models I want to convert and work on but it is a scout shunt list at heart.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/359191.page

As I said, its very expensive but uniquely powerful.

Your 4 strike squads aren't really any different from razorspam in another marine army. SW could put out comparable numbers and firepower and probably at a lower cost and BA could do it with all fast vehicles, to name but a few differences. I don't play GK to copy what other marines do just as well or better.
The only thing you have over a comparable SW army is warp quake and perhaps longer ranged shooting on the move (not necessarily better shooting mind you).

The difference comes down to mobility and accuracy. I can threaten any unit on the board, from any angle with interceptors. Something that just isn't possible with your strike squads. Warp quake is a great power on both units but only 12" range. Interceptors can spread it across the board without even putting themselves at too much risk.

I've wrecked/immobilized 2 manticores and a chimera on turn 1 with my scouting interceptors (a lesson on reserving that player won't forget). Strike squads won't ever be able to pull off something that effective unless you play on a 3' board with no terrain.

The only thing I will grant you is that your strike squads are more survivable and count as scoring. I use coteaz henchmen as my troops and they do a better job of shooting than your strike squads can because they don't have to get out of their ride to fire their guns and they cost a hell of a lot less.

One nice thing you can do with interceptors in objective games if you've got a Grand Master is to simply keep them in reserves, use Psychic Communion to delay them as long as possible and just shunt in for a turn 5 objective strike. Works even better if they're made troops with GS. That's the beauty of GS, it allows you to effectively list tailor on a small scale.

Bruteboss wrote:As I said, its very expensive but uniquely powerful.

Your 4 strike squads aren't really any different from razorspam in another marine army. SW could put out comparable numbers and firepower and probably at a lower cost and BA could do it with all fast vehicles, to name but a few differences. I don't play GK to copy what other marines do just as well or better.
The only thing you have over a comparable SW army is warp quake and perhaps longer ranged shooting on the move (not necessarily better shooting mind you).

The difference comes down to mobility and accuracy. I can threaten any unit on the board, from any angle with interceptors. Something that just isn't possible with your strike squads. Warp quake is a great power on both units but only 12" range. Interceptors can spread it across the board without even putting themselves at too much risk.

I've wrecked/immobilized 2 manticores and a chimera on turn 1 with my scouting interceptors (a lesson on reserving that player won't forget). Strike squads won't ever be able to pull off something that effective unless you play on a 3' board with no terrain.

The only thing I will grant you is that your strike squads are more survivable and count as scoring. I use coteaz henchmen as my troops and they do a better job of shooting than your strike squads can because they don't have to get out of their ride to fire their guns and they cost a hell of a lot less.

SW razor spam plays completely different. They take min sized units of guys and a TLPG/LC razorback, and either no weapon for the guys (just a unit for scoring) or take a single melta or plasma. Cost is 150-160. About the same cost as the strike squad + Pbolter back and cannon. The difference? Utility. The GKs all have force weapons, warpquake and hammerhand, and a 2-4 shot anti everything gun (can't hurt monliths.. but whatever), and a tank that provides both cover and S6 shooting that is hard to kept shaken/stunned. SWs have a standard marine weapon (not bad, but not cannon good either) and 3 AP shots on their tank, which doesn't have fortitude. SWs also get more attacks (and countercharge means they get quite a few even if charged), but lack force weapons or hammer hand or warpquake.

What I don't understand why interceptors vs strikes is even an issue. The basic troops for GKs are Strike squads, and termies. Termies for GKs are not good for their points, they don't provide any shooting that can't be gotten cheaper elsewhere, and can't take a transport without using a FA or HS slot. Lack of a decent invul also hurts. So that leaves strike squads as your most likely scoring unit (baring a special character list, which is debatable). I personally can't see 10 marines being enough scoring units, so I'm thinking at least 4 units of strike squads with bolter backs. At 640 pts, you actually get out of troops pretty cheaply. That leaves tons of points for your fire support (Priffledreads) and your purifiers and interceptors.

I guess my point is that it shouldn't be an either or issue when it comes to strikes vs interceptors, I plan on running plenty of both.

You're right, it isn't an either or situation here. Sourclams and I were simply comparing effectiveness on choice between the two in a given list. Something I'm sure he'll have a comment about when he reads this.

The 2 aren't mutually exclusive but are similar enough in role and abilities (read: identical except for movement). Once you have your troop slots filled to satisfaction, you may question taking more cheap strike squads or the expensive interceptors. I argue that the choice should go to the interceptors given how much more versatile and effect they can be on the battlefield.

Also, your point about SW razor spam isn't exactly disagreeing with mine. Yes they play a little different but its almost immaterial. We could argue all day about the difference but my opinion stands that SW's get a better deal on razorspam than GK given their lower cost, multiple attacks, counter charge and multiple AP1/2 weapons per unit.

That aside, to those who are nay saying interceptors, or at least the expensive kind: Trying running a unit of them for yourself and see what happens. I tihnk you will be pleasantly surprised.

How people I know plan on running razorbacks strike squads in GKs is costing 160 pts. SWs run their at 150-160, that in my book is such a small margin that I consider it to be effectively the same cost. IMHO that just because one army does a unit type "better" (which is debatable) doesn't mean it isn't worth doing in another army.

I'm really liking interceptors myself. I'm trying them out 5 strong with 1 cannon, and a MC daemon hammer. 155 pts is quite reasonable for a unit that can kill or cripple most targets in the game. The jump and shunt abilities of the unit make them rather nice if used correctly (first turn bully, deepstrike surprise, or opportunist back/midfield player).

Interceptor squads synergize with the Grand Strategy better than any other unit in the Codex. That being said, they are also very expensive. I would not field them in armies without Grand Masters, but would almost autoinclude a squad of 10 in armies that do bring a Grand Master (including, of course, Draigo or Mordrak) to the field.

Interceptor squads are better at shooting because they can get side shots easier with their Psycannons.

a nice things is that the 30" shunt doesn't count as Deep Striking so they can shunt into Difficult terrain with no penelty.

Grey Templar wrote:Interceptor squads are better at shooting because they can get side shots easier with their Psycannons.

a nice things is that the 30" shunt doesn't count as Deep Striking so they can shunt into Difficult terrain with no penelty.

*laughing*

Nor does shunt count as normal movement, which fortunately keeps it from being done during the scout phase. If we're going that route...

Grey Templar wrote:a nice things is that the 30" shunt doesn't count as Deep Striking so they can shunt into Difficult terrain with no penelty.

In my opinion this is incorrect. The unit is Jump Infantry and while they wouldn't take a dangerous terrain test for simply walking into terrain like normal infantry, the 30" shunt is clearly in a similar nature to their typical 12" teleport which would require a dangerous terrain test if started or ended in terrain. Playing it any other way seems like an exploitation of the special ability.

Dashofpepper wrote:Nor does shunt count as normal movement, which fortunately keeps it from being done during the scout phase. If we're going that route...

There is no definite ruling negating the 30" shunt during the Scout move. Of course they still must end the shunt 12" away from an enemy but the issue of whether or not it can be done during the Scout move is a matter of contention and is a house rule either way at this point. I understand people not wanting to allow Turn 1 assaults for GKs but trying to bar the shunt move from the Scout move is really just splitting-hairs as a GK player can still get turn 1 assaults by scouting Stormravens flatout to setup a 12" move on turn 1 and a first turn assault. Would you rather have GKTs or Purifiers being delivered at your doorstep or 10 Assault Marines? Either way, GKs can get a first turn assault with ease.

Even then, Interceptors may not need to use their 30" shunt during their Scout move depending on the deployment of the enemy.

rereading it, i guess it would still trigger a dangerous terrain test.


o'well, my main point still stands.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Interceptor squads are better at shooting because they can get side shots easier with their Psycannons.

a nice things is that the 30" shunt doesn't count as Deep Striking so they can shunt into Difficult terrain with no penelty.

*laughing*

Nor does shunt count as normal movement, which fortunately keeps it from being done during the scout phase. If we're going that route...

1) You're right about shunt being affected by difficult terrain, all movement is so far as I know.

2) What are you basing your claim that shunt isn't "normal movement" on? It can be used once per game, that is literally the only restriction on it. Can bikes and fast vehicles turboboost during their scout move? Yes, so there are plenty of examples to directly contradict your claim that units can't use special movement rules during their scout move. I can't think of a single example that supports what your claiming.

Bruteboss wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Interceptor squads are better at shooting because they can get side shots easier with their Psycannons.

a nice things is that the 30" shunt doesn't count as Deep Striking so they can shunt into Difficult terrain with no penelty.

*laughing*

Nor does shunt count as normal movement, which fortunately keeps it from being done during the scout phase. If we're going that route...

1) You're right about shunt being affected by difficult terrain, all movement is so far as I know.

2) What are you basing your claim that shunt isn't "normal movement" on? It can be used once per game, that is literally the only restriction on it. Can bikes and fast vehicles turboboost during their scout move? Yes, so there are plenty of examples to directly contradict your claim that units can't use special movement rules during their scout move. I can't think of a single example that supports what your claiming.

For bikes, turbo-boosting is a normal movement speed. For fast vehicles, flat out is a normal movement speed. During scout, you are allowed to take a normal movement. Shunting explicitly says that it is *not* a normal movement.

Actually the wording is "instead of moving".

The question when making a scout move is which do they mean:

A. Any move that a unit may perform can be considered "normal" for them and therefore a shunt can be used in a scout move.

B. Any "normal" move is the only move that can be used. Therefore any special moves are discounted and may not be used in a scout move.

I for one will be waiting for the FAQ since it's clear it could be either and we have no idea (yet) which is applicable.

And back on topic...interceptors are awesome! Nothing better than having a non-threatening 5 man unit pouncing on an objective turn 5 to win the game.

Lukus83 wrote:Actually the wording is "instead of moving".

The question when making a scout move is which do they mean:

A. Any move that a unit may perform can be considered "normal" for them and therefore a shunt can be used in a scout move.

B. Any "normal" move is the only move that can be used. Therefore any special moves are discounted and may not be used in a scout move.

I for one will be waiting for the FAQ since it's clear it could be either and we have no idea (yet) which is applicable.

And back on topic...interceptors are awesome! Nothing better than having a non-threatening 5 man unit pouncing on an objective turn 5 to win the game.

Running is movement. You do it instead of shooting. That doesn't make it also shooting.

Guys, please take the Shunt Debate to YMDC, there is already a thread on it

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/357544.page

EDIT: Here was a well thought out post, that I agree with.

First: any argument that you cannot "shunt" because it disallows assault *also* disallows TB, as with TB you cannot perform ANY other voluntary action that turn. This means it is *automatically* invalid as an argument, as it leads to a contradiction to a known truth.

Second: the BRB does NOT define normal. However the FAQ clarifies that anything you can *normally* do in your Movement phase, INCLUDING firing smoke launchers, you CAN do in the Scout move

third: any argument that the "game" hasnt started during Scout is invalid due to smoke launchers being allowed. So again, claiming you cannot use Shunt because the game hasnt started is AUTOMATICALLY an invalid argument, as Smoke Launchers can be used

Conclusion: Shunt is a normal move for the teleporter squad, as it is something they can do any movement phase they wish. The game has started, it is usual for them to be able to shunt when making a Move, and therefore they can

There are no actual rules arguments the other way. None.

TB or turbo-boosting is a move. You don't turbo-boost instead of moving, you just select it as your movement speed.

Shunting is not a move. You do it instead of moving. Like you run instead of shooting.

*edit* That quote deserved a response. I'll drop it from there so this can talk about other stuff.