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So Californians are being sold an idea for how to try and improve their finanical situation by voting on their own tax hikes. Remember though folks...this is a poll so might not conform with reality in any way...
April 23, 2011|By Evan Halper, Los Angeles Times
California voters agree with Gov. Jerry Brown that tax increases should help close the state budget deficit, and they want to vote on his plan for raising the revenue, according to a new Times/USC Dornsife poll.
The Democratic governor has been traveling the state to tout his proposal for a balance of spending reductions and tax increases since it stalled in the Legislature last month amid a bitter battle with Republicans. He had wanted an election in June on a renewal of several tax increases that will have expired by July 1, but he now hopes for a vote in the fall.
Sixty percent of those surveyed, including majorities of both Democrats and Republicans, said they back such an election. The alternative being pushed by most GOP lawmakers — forgoing an election and balancing the budget by cutting more from state services — was supported by just 33%.
Support for the cuts-only approach dropped to 25% when voters were informed that it would probably require reductions in school funding, according to the survey conducted for The Times and the USC Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences.
The findings reflect a significant shift in Californians' attitudes about how to approach the deficit. In November, 44% wanted the budget balanced with spending cuts alone.
"It looks like Jerry Brown has successfully reframed the discussion," said Dan Schnur, director of the Jesse M. Unruh Institute of Politics at USC and a former GOP political consultant. "Spending cuts are OK to people in the abstract, but when you get specific they start to get scared."
Voters clearly do not want the taxes extended without their say, however. A majority, 53%, said they opposed reinstating the levies through legislative action alone, an approach suggested by Democratic leaders. The Legislature and governor do not need voters' consent to raise taxes, but Brown has promised to seek it.
Brown and lawmakers have already reduced a $26-billion deficit by about $11 billion, largely by cutting programs. The governor wants the taxes to fill most of the remaining gap.
Brown "seems to be reflecting the mood of the state pretty well in terms of how to handle the deficit," said Democratic pollster Stanley Greenberg of Greenberg Quinlan Rosner, one of two firms that conducted the bipartisan poll.
I dont mind getting taxed. I mind what they spend it on though.
I find it fething laughable how the majority of the American (I read an article in the LA times) and the British (read an article on the BBC) citizens say they "universally reject" pretty much everything that the government wants to cut, but also unversally reject tax increases.
The masses are fething stupid.
Those are the only two options that work. I think that we should all pay an extra ten percent income tax, stop spending money on stupid gak, and im 100% behind the idea.
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
2011/04/25 15:16:03
Subject: Re:People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?
The problem isn't paying the taxes initially. The problem is that politicians are not responsible WITH said taxes, which in turn makes me not want to pay taxes.
Ayn Rand "We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality"
Usually the people shouting we need to get taxed more:
1. Don't pay taxes
2. If they do their accountants insure they won't pay more taxes.
3. Have a vested interest in government expenditures.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Cut spending and raise taxes. If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.
If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.
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More2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++ A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
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Frazzled wrote:Usually the people shouting we need to get taxed more:
1. Don't pay taxes
2. If they do their accountants insure they won't pay more taxes.
3. Have a vested interest in government expenditures.
Or we just want to actually fix the economy instead of generating profit for the rich? Not that I'm from the US or anything, but we've got a pretty intense health-care debate of our own in Sweden ATM, with both sides acting like a kind of person that the Dakka posting rules won't let me describe.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
Mannahnin wrote:Cut spending and raise taxes. If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.
If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.
Cut spending first then we'll talk. Put the budget back to 2007 spending levels, then wack all deductions and raise the top scale to 40% for over $250M, and 50% for over $500M. Eliminate coirp tax deductions as well except for depreciation of US based capital assets.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Mannahnin wrote:Cut spending and raise taxes. If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.
If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.
Cut spending first then we'll talk. Put the budget back to 2007 spending levels, then wack all deductions and raise the top scale to 40% for over $250M, and 50% for over $500M. Eliminate coirp tax deductions as well except for depreciation of US based capital assets.
It's amazing how much sense you can talk on occasion. It just makes me sad how much of your posting in political threads is just nonsense, when you're perfectly capable of respectable stuff like this. I disagree on the numbers, but at least you're proposing something.
How about 40% for those earning over one million, 45% over 10 million, 50% over 50 million, 55% over 100 million, and 60% over 250 million? I'm right on board with you regarding corporate tax deductions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/25 20:04:03
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More2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++ A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
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Mannahnin wrote:
It's amazing how much sense you can talk on occasion. It just makes me sad how much of your posting in political threads is just nonsense, when you're perfectly capable of respectable stuff like this. I disagree on the numbers, but at least you're proposing something.
Thats a little hostile Manny. Here, have some weiner dog therapy.
There now we're all better.
How about 40% for those earning over one million, 45% over 10 million, 50% over 50 million, 55% over 100 million, and 60% over 250 million? I'm right on board with you regarding corporate tax deductions.
You're actually recommending a rate lower than the Evil banker? Have you no shame! We're both on the same page in that the key is the deductions. The actual rate is almost irrelevant.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
If we eliminate loopholes and really raise the rates for those over 200k, and move toward socialized medicine I'll accept a higher tax rate for myself also.
I'm all about eliminating redundancies and programs that don't work, but I've spent too much time working with those who bear the brunt of cuts to be in favor of massive cuts when they come primarily from social programs.
I'll take cuts and raise taxes. I'm with Frazz and Mannahnin.
Although I don't think things will get better till we can stop leaking jobs to 3rd world countries.
And whilst you're pointing and shouting at the boogeyman in the corner, you're missing the burglar coming in through the window.
Well, Duh! Because they had a giant Mining ship. If you had a giant mining ship you would drill holes in everything too, before you'd destory it with a black hole
Frazzled wrote: Thats a little hostile Manny. Here, have some weiner dog therapy.
There now we're all better.
Looks like my Sora. Sora's got a deeper bark, though.
Agreed on the cuts and taxes, too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/26 21:25:11
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Taxes are needed to fund the government. When the government is in debt, they need extra money to get out of said hole. Therefore, taxes are good, as they helf out the government, which helps out us.
Commissar NIkev wrote:
This guy......is smart
2011/04/27 12:25:30
Subject: Re:People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?
Mannahnin wrote:Cut spending and raise taxes. If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.
If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.
The problem with this sentiment is it's been tried before. I'm old enough (not as old as Frazzled, but close) to remember all this bs during the Clinton years. "We must raise taxes to get the deficit under control!" was the mantra. And yet, decades later, here we are in a worse hole than before.
I see a fundamental problem with just handing the Federal Government more money again. We tried that before, and it failed.
Since our representatives can't resist buying votes for themselves with governmental expenditures above and beyond what they are collecting why should we believe they will be any better stewards with even more of our dollars? When there are knock down drag out fights over less than one percent of the annual budget why should I believe they can make the hard cuts of 10% or more needed?
Mannahnin wrote:Cut spending and raise taxes. If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.
If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.
The problem with this sentiment is it's been tried before. I'm old enough (not as old as Frazzled, but close) to remember all this bs during the Clinton years. "We must raise taxes to get the deficit under control!" was the mantra. And yet, decades later, here we are in a worse hole than before.
Not trying to be offensive or anything, but didn't that actually WORK until Dubya spent all the cash chasing bin Ladin down? There's always someone pointing out how much worse off the American economy was when he quit his second term compared to when he started his first...
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
Mannahnin wrote:Cut spending and raise taxes. If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.
If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.
The problem with this sentiment is it's been tried before. I'm old enough (not as old as Frazzled, but close) to remember all this bs during the Clinton years. "We must raise taxes to get the deficit under control!" was the mantra. And yet, decades later, here we are in a worse hole than before.
I see a fundamental problem with just handing the Federal Government more money again. We tried that before, and it failed.
...
How do you mean?
The "New Deal" got the USA out of the worst economic slump in world history. Government spending.
WW2 produced the biggest dividend in GDP growth ever seen. That and the Cold War powered the US economy through to the mid 70s. Government spending.
If you examine the record on the US Budget deficit you can see that it generally gets worse under Republican presidents and improves under Democrat presidents.
The reason why the US is in a hole now is because Bush spend billions on overseas adventures while giving tax cuts to generate new income by the Laffer Curve. Which didn't work.
Without pissing on Killkrazy's GOP bashing and government love fest, let me just point out that Obama amassed a greater total of debt for the nation than all the administrations from George Washington to Ronald Reagen combined, but that can't all be laid at his feet. Pelosi and Reid helped quite a bit.
I will not argue that GW or anyone else didn't spend too much. They all did, and that's pretty much the point. Tax increases have done nothing to reduce the debt because our elected officials have no fiscal discipline whatsoever. They are vote whores and use the taxpayer's wallet to buy those votes.
The *POINT* is that we cannot trust the Federal government with our money any longer.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/04/27 16:45:04
Without pissing on Killkrazy's GOP bashing and government love fest, let me just point out that Obama amassed a greater total of debt for the nation than all the administrations from George Washington to Ronald Reagen combined, but that can't all be laid at his feet. Pelosi and Reid helped quite a bit.
He had two wars and a resession to deal with. But those are facts.
And whilst you're pointing and shouting at the boogeyman in the corner, you're missing the burglar coming in through the window.
Well, Duh! Because they had a giant Mining ship. If you had a giant mining ship you would drill holes in everything too, before you'd destory it with a black hole
I don't mind being taxed more if it means that people will shut up
You can't lower a national debt of trillions just by raising taxes though. It will contribute heavily, sure, but there needs to be more than just that.
The Green Git wrote:Without pissing on Killkrazy's GOP bashing and government love fest, let me just point out that Obama amassed a greater total of debt for the nation than all the administrations from George Washington to Ronald Reagen combined, but that can't all be laid at his feet. Pelosi and Reid helped quite a bit.
I will not argue that GW or anyone else didn't spend too much. They all did, and that's pretty much the point. Tax increases have done nothing to reduce the debt because our elected officials have no fiscal discipline whatsoever. They are vote whores and use the taxpayer's wallet to buy those votes.
The *POINT* is that we cannot trust the Federal government with our money any longer.
In your view, then, all governments, Democrat or Republican, are equally bad for the deficit. When did this come to be the case?
Mannahnin wrote:Cut spending and raise taxes. If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.
If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.
The problem with this sentiment is it's been tried before. I'm old enough (not as old as Frazzled, but close) to remember all this bs during the Clinton years. "We must raise taxes to get the deficit under control!" was the mantra. And yet, decades later, here we are in a worse hole than before.
I see a fundamental problem with just handing the Federal Government more money again. We tried that before, and it failed.
...
How do you mean?
The "New Deal" got the USA out of the worst economic slump in world history. Government spending.
WW2 produced the biggest dividend in GDP growth ever seen. That and the Cold War powered the US economy through to the mid 70s. Government spending.
If you examine the record on the US Budget deficit you can see that it generally gets worse under Republican presidents and improves under Democrat presidents.
The reason why the US is in a hole now is because Bush spend billions on overseas adventures while giving tax cuts to generate new income by the Laffer Curve. Which didn't work.
The New deal didn't get the US out of anything actually. It was WWII only.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Mannahnin wrote:Cut spending and raise taxes. If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.
If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.
The problem with this sentiment is it's been tried before. I'm old enough (not as old as Frazzled, but close) to remember all this bs during the Clinton years. "We must raise taxes to get the deficit under control!" was the mantra. And yet, decades later, here we are in a worse hole than before.
Is this a wilful distortion of reality, or do you genuinely believe this? Clinton (and the Congress) DID get the deficit under control. We had a budget surplus when Bush Jr. took office. Which we then utterly squandered on tax breaks and simultaneous war. Massive tax cuts at the same time as massive war spending is OF COURSE going to break the bank. It's been going on for close to a decade now, and while Obama and the Democratic Congress certainly share responsibility for continuing those policies, trying to pretend that we didn't have the deficit under control prior to Bush is a non-starter.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Green Git wrote:The *POINT* is that we cannot trust the Federal government with our money any longer.
I feel like I'm back at an early-80s Libertarian party function. Bumper stickers in the parking lot: "Don't steal; the government hates competition."
Since there is NO alternative to the Federal government spending our tax money (unless you'd like to move to another country), what's your actual suggestion? In theory Tea Party fiscal conservatives were elected in droves last November to restore fiscal responsibility. We're getting some more of that now. Sometimes no thanks to the actual Tea Partiers (you should see the idiocy they're proposing and supporting in our State Legislature), but this is how representative democracy works. Call and write to your representatives. Vote for the people who represent the policies you support.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/27 17:36:02
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More2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++ A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
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The Great Depression Statistics
By the Numbers
The Economy During the Great Depression
US Gross Domestic Product (current dollars)
The Great Crash, 1929-1933
in 1929: $103.6 billion
in 1930: $91.2
in 1931: $76.5
in 1932: $58.7
in 1933: $56.4
New Deal Recovery and Recession, 1934-39
in 1934: $66.0 billion
in 1935: $73.3
in 1936: $83.8
in 1937: $91.9
in 1938: $86.1
in 1939: $92.2
Mobilization for WWII, 1940-1945
in 1940: $101.4 billion
in 1941: $126.7
in 1942: $161.9
in 1943: $198.6
in 1944: $219.8
in 1945: $223.1
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Looks like a steady recovery prior to the mobilization for WWII, then big jumps in GDP during the war. Which seems to be proving KK right.
Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++ A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
