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I see that the IG and the Orks have GW kits as far as super heavys go, has there been any rumors or news regarding the SM getting any super heavys?

Plenty of rumours. But nothing concrete. Just the usual "maybe they'll get a plastic thunderhawk" stuff.

Nothing yet on the SM superheavy, since on the fluff(postheresy) theyre no longer allowed to control any superheavy detachment.

Synister_Intent wrote:I see that the IG and the Orks have GW kits as far as super heavys go, has there been any rumors or news regarding the SM getting any super heavys?

Doubtful. But what's stopping you from doing one of the existing super heavies for your SM army right now? You'll use them most often in Apoc games anyway (unless you play a lot of spearhead), and both the IG and Space marines are Imperial forces. (They make good allies in Apoc games).

Here's one I did for my templars.

linky

Due to the very nature of the Space Marines, mobility and speed in attack, super-heavy vehicles would be a natural fluff-contradiction so they'd pretty much need to just make up an entirely new vehicle that has never even been hinted at before yet is now all over the galaxy. Don't see that happening.

Harriticus wrote:Due to the very nature of the Space Marines, mobility and speed in attack, super-heavy vehicles would be a natural fluff-contradiction so they'd pretty much need to just make up an entirely new vehicle that has never even been hinted at before yet is now all over the galaxy. Don't see that happening.

You mean, like a Thunderhawk, or an Caestus Assault Ram?

kronk wrote:

Harriticus wrote:Due to the very nature of the Space Marines, mobility and speed in attack, super-heavy vehicles would be a natural fluff-contradiction so they'd pretty much need to just make up an entirely new vehicle that has never even been hinted at before yet is now all over the galaxy. Don't see that happening.

You mean, like a Thunderhawk, or an Caestus Assault Ram?

Both Thunderhawks and Space Marine assault boats have been around for decades, and are compatible with Space Marine combat doctrine and ships. Slow moving tanks that can only be transported by dedicated, non combat capable transports are not.

Harriticus wrote:Due to the very nature of the Space Marines, mobility and speed in attack, super-heavy vehicles would be a natural fluff-contradiction so they'd pretty much need to just make up an entirely new vehicle that has never even been hinted at before yet is now all over the galaxy. Don't see that happening.

You mean like how they introduced the Tau...?

You can still make some Super Heavy's for SM. A friend of mine Converted the most awesome AWESOME! SoB BaneBlade i have ever seen! God. I am so jaloux every time i see that Monster..

Anyway as i said. Just take a BaneBlade and convert it so it got a Space Marine look and stuff or get something from Forgewrold. I think SM got a Super Heavy there.

This brings up the interesting question - what would a space marine super heavy look like?

It wouldn't be a huge, lumbering tank of the imperial guard; the space marines are far too much of a mobile force for that to be feasible. It would need to be either airborne or easily dropped in from orbit to fit with the fluff.

Perhaps some kind of huge command drop pod? It could have attitude thruster for movement ala the terran bases in Starcraft...

Synister_Intent wrote:I see that the IG and the Orks have GW kits as far as super heavys go, has there been any rumors or news regarding the SM getting any super heavys?

No, because they don't use them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Warboss ZanZag wrote:A friend of mine Converted the most awesome AWESOME! SoB BaneBlade i have ever seen!

What does that have to do with SM superheavies? Sisters aren't Space MArines, Sisters don't have the same fighting style as Space Marines, nor the same duties, nor the same biology, nor the same psychology, nor... well, anything in common outside of the fact that they use a form of armor called power armor (Which isn't even the same type of power armor used by astartes) and type of weapon called a bolter (which, again, isn't even the same type of bolter as used by the Astartes).

A superheavy for Sisters of Battle makes sense, they are a primarily infantry-based force that does not do rapid deployment, although they do tend towards mechanization. A superheavy tank for Marines does not, because they are primarily a rapid deployment force, dropping in, killing everything, then leaving before the enemy can strike back.

Even their heavy tank/IFV, the Land Raider, is evidence of this, as it can be dropped into combat via thunderhawk.

the Space marines used to have Super heavy tanks during the Heresy.

most Fellblades were lost though and mainstream space marine doctrine no longer supports the use of Super Heavy tanks.


that said, there are still Fellblade tanks out there in posession of a few Space Marine chapters that favor armored assaults.


*Fellblade: super heavy tank of unknown specifications. similer to a baneblade in armament. Power of the Machine Spirit

http://www.box.net/shared/diel1ercms

lol, maybe 5 Nemesis Dreadknights can combine into a Mega Dreadknight or something.

Well, space marines used to have superheavies! The first superheavies I ever saw in Epic were space marine, hell they used to have titans. Baneblades and shadowswords started life as space marine. The Capitol Imperialis was a giant space marine only superheavy. Sure fluff has changes since then, but really since superheavies are only used in apoc it shouldn't be a big deal.

Current fluff would require more of a super heavy assault flier that can drop troops or vehicles.

like these





or like this but with land raiders



Really a giant drop pod would be the most fluffy anymore.

those are Stormbirds,

the precurser to the modern Thunderhawk.


a Stormbird could carry 100 marines down to a battlezone, or transport massive amounts of equipment.

an alternate version had a smaller transport bay and was used as a heavy support craft.


the STC for them has since been lost and they were replaced by the more agile Thunderhawk and Stormraven.

they also lost their use as marines don't deploy in the numbers they used to and as such a flyer of that size isn't needed.



the remaining specimens are little more then relics

Hey man, Land Raiders have something to say about a lack of Super Heavy for Space Marines. Even 'Super-Heavy' tanks don't have 14AV all around (most anyways), I think Baneblade is 11 or 12 in the rear... also the fact that they can fire at multiple targets (power of the machine spirit)

Don't forget the badass motha that is the Land Raider TERMINUS ULTRA. 3 Twin-Linked Lascannons + 2 Normal Lascannons.

We don't need huge lumbering tanks when our normal tanks do the job...

I used to play a game called O.G.R.E. years ago with an uncle long after the game went out of print.

I'd love to have super-heavies especially a Leviathan, but 40k already looks kinda odd with all the big vehicles on an 4'x8' table. My only real gripe I have when playing 40k is the esthetic. Everything jammed together just looks 'wrong'.

I guess this is what you get when you try and wedge Epic into what was a skirmish game for the most part.

kronk wrote:

Harriticus wrote:Due to the very nature of the Space Marines, mobility and speed in attack, super-heavy vehicles would be a natural fluff-contradiction so they'd pretty much need to just make up an entirely new vehicle that has never even been hinted at before yet is now all over the galaxy. Don't see that happening.

You mean, like a Thunderhawk, or an Caestus Assault Ram?

How is the caestus super heavy? It's a 40K unit.

IdentifyZero wrote:Hey man, Land Raiders have something to say about a lack of Super Heavy for Space Marines. Even 'Super-Heavy' tanks don't have 14AV all around (most anyways), I think Baneblade is 11 or 12 in the rear... also the fact that they can fire at multiple targets (power of the machine spirit)

Don't forget the badass motha that is the Land Raider TERMINUS ULTRA. 3 Twin-Linked Lascannons + 2 Normal Lascannons.

We don't need huge lumbering tanks when our normal tanks do the job...

a Landraider can fire 1 weapon at a different target.


Superheavies can split fire with EVERY weapon.

Andrew1975 wrote:
like these

That looked like a giant Devilfish to me on the first glance for some reason.
But yea, like GT said, Stormbirds are pre-heresy stuff. They are featured in the Horus Heresy novels quite often.
Maybe the CSMs will get them...

IdentifyZero wrote:Hey man, Land Raiders have something to say about a lack of Super Heavy for Space Marines. Even 'Super-Heavy' tanks don't have 14AV all around (most anyways), I think Baneblade is 11 or 12 in the rear... also the fact that they can fire at multiple targets (power of the machine spirit)

Don't forget the badass motha that is the Land Raider TERMINUS ULTRA. 3 Twin-Linked Lascannons + 2 Normal Lascannons.

We don't need huge lumbering tanks when our normal tanks do the job...

I take this back.

Volcano Cannons win apocalypse games..... that and all the targets a super-heavy can fire on.

Scott-S6 wrote:

kronk wrote:

Harriticus wrote:Due to the very nature of the Space Marines, mobility and speed in attack, super-heavy vehicles would be a natural fluff-contradiction so they'd pretty much need to just make up an entirely new vehicle that has never even been hinted at before yet is now all over the galaxy. Don't see that happening.

You mean, like a Thunderhawk, or an Caestus Assault Ram?

How is the caestus super heavy? It's a 40K unit.

Harriticus wants a vehicle with mobility and speed that delivers marines to the front lines. I gave him 2. There's also the storm raven.

Being a super heavy is irrelevant.

Space marines really could use some close air support. The storm raven is nice but doesn't really fulfill that niche all that well (especially in the GK form since the missiles really suck).

Something cheaper, with no transport option and more firepower would be perfect. But that said I agree that the SM don't need any super heavy tank. Thunderhawks already fulfill the heavy transport/support niche while being mobile as well. Perhaps they could get more forms of Orbital bombardment, to simulate the support given by their battle barge...

Seriously, after dealing with this stuff; all I can say is:

You facing super-heavy?

Drop Pod - Suicide Squads with Meltas (4 melta command squad works well)

&

Lucius Drop Pods - Dreadnought inside with melta/CCWs or just go for an ironclad.

Turn 1, you wreck them.

You see anything with a range over 48", that is where your first strike goes and you put locator beacons on the drop pod.

As for super-heavies, they do not really fit the current SM fighting style; but it's not a problem to convert up a super-heavy for your chapter, put a marine as the gunner etc....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to ad, the Caestus is a nice unit but if you run them, you definitely need a group of 3.

They are targetted insanely fast, they should be made a flyer so they stand a bit more of a chance.

My single Caestus survived over 50 lascannon/demolisher & volcano cannon hits combined before being destroyed. If I had 3, it would have been a nasty tank cracking squadron with magna-meltas; super-speed rams and dropping off 10 troops who assault.

IdentifyZero wrote:Seriously, after dealing with this stuff; all I can say is:

You facing super-heavy?

Drop Pod - Suicide Squads with Meltas (4 melta command squad works well)

&

Lucius Drop Pods - Dreadnought inside with melta/CCWs or just go for an ironclad.

Turn 1, you wreck them.

You see anything with a range over 48", that is where your first strike goes and you put locator beacons on the drop pod.

As for super-heavies, they do not really fit the current SM fighting style; but it's not a problem to convert up a super-heavy for your chapter, put a marine as the gunner etc....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to ad, the Caestus is a nice unit but if you run them, you definitely need a group of 3.

They are targetted insanely fast, they should be made a flyer so they stand a bit more of a chance.

My single Caestus survived over 50 lascannon/demolisher & volcano cannon hits combined before being destroyed. If I had 3, it would have been a nasty tank cracking squadron with magna-meltas; super-speed rams and dropping off 10 troops who assault.

Well, I've never felt suicide squads were an answer, I hope the next edition has a way to deal with that. The game is really relying too heavily on suicide melta. Talk about unfluffy, space marines should never be suicide squads, and seeing as how quickly guard die, vets should be pretty rare and never should not be squandered as suicide squads.

If you are going to make superheavies unfluffy for marines because it doesn't reflect their current roll in the fluff, then they need better orbital orbital support options. That might fit the fluff better.

If you equate then to modern US marines, then they need better assault landers, close air support, and off table support. I'd be fine with no superheavies if we could get this. I remember in the original space marine game there was a lander that had shields, good arms and armor, each one could hold I think 2 landraiders. It landed in a controlled skid, but i don't remember what it was called, id have to dig around.

Andrew1975 wrote:

IdentifyZero wrote:Seriously, after dealing with this stuff; all I can say is:

You facing super-heavy?

Drop Pod - Suicide Squads with Meltas (4 melta command squad works well)

&

Lucius Drop Pods - Dreadnought inside with melta/CCWs or just go for an ironclad.

Turn 1, you wreck them.

You see anything with a range over 48", that is where your first strike goes and you put locator beacons on the drop pod.

As for super-heavies, they do not really fit the current SM fighting style; but it's not a problem to convert up a super-heavy for your chapter, put a marine as the gunner etc....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to ad, the Caestus is a nice unit but if you run them, you definitely need a group of 3.

They are targetted insanely fast, they should be made a flyer so they stand a bit more of a chance.

My single Caestus survived over 50 lascannon/demolisher & volcano cannon hits combined before being destroyed. If I had 3, it would have been a nasty tank cracking squadron with magna-meltas; super-speed rams and dropping off 10 troops who assault.

Well, I've never felt suicide squads were an answer, I hope the next edition has a way to deal with that. The game is really relying too heavily on suicide melta. Talk about unfluffy, space marines should never be suicide squads, and seeing as how quickly guard die, vets should be pretty rare and never should not be squandered as suicide squads.

If you are going to make superheavies unfluffy for marines because it doesn't reflect their current roll in the fluff, then they need better orbital orbital support options. That might fit the fluff better.

If you equate then to modern US marines, then they need better assault landers, close air support, and off table support. I'd be fine with no superheavies if we could get this. I remember in the original space marine game there was a lander that had shields, good arms and armor, each one could hold I think 2 landraiders. It landed in a controlled skid, but i don't remember what it was called, id have to dig around.

You are absolutely right, suicide squads 'suck to have to make, but it's not unnessecarily unfluffy for Space Marines to be going on what equates to suicide missions (I gotta note, on average, my so called Suicide Squads tend to survive 4-5 turns of carnage making).

As it stands, if I'm coming up against super-heavies and advancing across a table, I have no ranged weapons that can compare oh wait... HK-Missiles *Sarcasm*.

SM should have orbital support or something to make up for this, I agree. It's even stupider for me to advance across a table while 3 volcano cannons pummel me along with 72" Battlecannons before any of my weapons can be in range. The only fast way to deal with them, is pod squads or TH/SS Termis (Which rock coming out of a Caestus 10 of them.. lol).

Andrew1975 wrote:
If you equate then to modern US marines, then they need better assault landers, close air support, and off table support. I'd be fine with no superheavies if we could get this. I remember in the original space marine game there was a lander that had shields, good arms and armor, each one could hold I think 2 landraiders. It landed in a controlled skid, but i don't remember what it was called, id have to dig around.

Just what I suggested

Grey Templar wrote:the Space marines used to have Super heavy tanks during the Heresy.

most Fellblades were lost though and mainstream space marine doctrine no longer supports the use of Super Heavy tanks.


that said, there are still Fellblade tanks out there in posession of a few Space Marine chapters that favor armored assaults.


*Fellblade: super heavy tank of unknown specifications. similer to a baneblade in armament. Power of the Machine Spirit

http://www.box.net/shared/diel1ercms

Sadly, the background on the Fellblade is entirely based on that Bell of Lost Souls Internet Fanfic creation.

It's based off a pic from a 3rd party CCG of the Horus Heresy of a Baneblade type take in Sons of Horus colors, with a non-SM looking tank commander. The Imperial Army fought under the direct command of the Legions, and would often adopt their colors and heraldry for identification.

There's really nothing outside of the BoLS fanfic that suggests that SM's would have anything resembling a Baneblade in their arsenals or ever did. The Thunderhawk performs the exact same role and more.

Will not take image... grrrr.

How about the Old burrowing super heavy machines - IIRc they were used by the SM?