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IdentifyZero wrote:You facing super-heavy?

Drop Pod - Suicide Squads with Meltas (4 melta command squad works well)

&

Lucius Drop Pods - Dreadnought inside with melta/CCWs or just go for an ironclad.

Turn 1, you wreck them.

Do you find this works? I am suprised. Every time I field my shadowsword I stick it inside at least a 12" bubble or tanks and men, so much armour that it can usually take cover saves. I am suprised that people leave the possibility of a turn one drop attack.

However, even with all of that protection, it rarely gets a chance to fire. It seems every ranged weapon that the opponent has will not rest until the volcano cannon is at least shaken, then I have to rely on the russes to do the damage. Sometimes I think that the best use for a shadowsword is as a giant fire magnet.

I wonder if I can argue that a superheavy is a terrain feature that I can key an inquisition orbital strike to.

Well it would make sense if you could, although maybe with some kind of negative because it can move a bit.

I was being facetious

Melissia wrote:I wonder if I can argue that a superheavy is a terrain feature that I can key an inquisition orbital strike to.

well, once its dead it becomes a terrain feature

Mr Morden wrote:How about the Old burrowing super heavy machines - IIRc they were used by the SM?

No, mole and termites were imperial guard only even in space marine. Space marines did use mole mortars though.

Sadly, the background on the Fellblade is entirely based on that Bell of Lost Souls Internet Fanfic creation.

It's based off a pic from a 3rd party CCG of the Horus Heresy of a Baneblade type take in Sons of Horus colors, with a non-SM looking tank commander. The Imperial Army fought under the direct command of the Legions, and would often adopt their colors and heraldry for identification.

There's really nothing outside of the BoLS fanfic that suggests that SM's would have anything resembling a Baneblade in their arsenals or ever did. The Thunderhawk performs the exact same role and more.

This is a point of view based only on modern fluff. In space marine marines had superheavy tanks. The rules supported it and most of the old art (1st and 2nd ed timeframe but across all systems supported during the time) does too!

You are absolutely right, suicide squads 'suck to have to make, but it's not unnessecarily unfluffy for Space Marines to be going on what equates to suicide missions (I gotta note, on average, my so called Suicide Squads tend to survive 4-5 turns of carnage making).

Suicide missions are the space marines bread and butter. Suicide for anyone but space marines that is. Suicide squads are something really different. It's one thing for a squad to do something heroic in the course of the battle, but to have dedicated suicide squads should be left to penal legions. I think any commander who's tactic is to drop a small unit of elite troops into the heart of the enemy with no realistic chance of survival would not be a commander much longer.

Andrew1975 wrote:


This is a point of view based only on modern fluff. In space marine marines had superheavy tanks. The rules supported it and most of the old art (1st and 2nd ed timeframe but across all systems supported during the time) does too!

This was the same time when IG had Jetbikes, Harlequins had Land Raiders, and World Eaters Champions could wield Graviton Guns and Jokaero weapons, the core 40k rules had rules for air to air combat between aircraft and rules for dinosaurs. That old Space Marine has since been very much retconned, and was never very well fleshed out, and IIRC there wasn't a "fellblade" anywhere in it.

Jackster wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:
like these

That looked like a giant Devilfish to me on the first glance for some reason.
But yea, like GT said, Stormbirds are pre-heresy stuff. They are featured in the Horus Heresy novels quite often.
Maybe the CSMs will get them...

Since the fluff has evolved... we now associate SM with box'y... and tau with smooth aesthetics.

Melissia wrote:I was being facetious

Ah, I didn't get that. I thought that sounded like a fun rule. Apocalypse is hardly an expansion to be taken seriously, so I am always up for crazy things people want to try. As long as they are somewhat fair that is.

Vaktathi wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:


This is a point of view based only on modern fluff. In space marine marines had superheavy tanks. The rules supported it and most of the old art (1st and 2nd ed timeframe but across all systems supported during the time) does too!

This was the same time when IG had Jetbikes, Harlequins had Land Raiders, and World Eaters Champions could wield Graviton Guns and Jokaero weapons, the core 40k rules had rules for air to air combat between aircraft and rules for dinosaurs. That old Space Marine has since been very much retconned, and was never very well fleshed out, and IIRC there wasn't a "fellblade" anywhere in it.

I've never understood the retcon of the jetbikes, I mean landspeeders must function pretty much the same and those are a dime a dozen. Harlequins could have anything and the fluff they wrote explained it well. Graviton guns much like the old web guns were just too powerful, so I understood that. Marines had baneblade and shadowswords, but I think the names were different back then. They also had all the fliers.

Some of the retcon I get, some I don't. I'll never understand the powerfist costing you initiative.

The Hercules as seen in white dwarf 120.

Man, those stormbirds are cool. I'd much rather have one of those than a thunderhawk.

Those models, that is. I'm assuming they're scratchbuilt.

micahaphone wrote:Man, those stormbirds are cool. I'd much rather have one of those than a thunderhawk.

Those models, that is. I'm assuming they're scratchbuilt.

They are GI JOE Dragonhawks

babab war part 2 has BS 4 marine superheavies on the seccessionalist side.

Technically any marines could requisition a baneblade and refit it, and I am sure that marines would be gifted superheavies by the Ad mecs for services rendered. Just would have to be retooled and widened/lengthened for 6 marines to fit.

Doctadeth wrote:Technically any marines could requisition a baneblade and refit it

No.

Marines not important enough or trusted enough to be given a superheavy just because they asked.

They have far, far, FAR less authority than the Inquisition, and even the Inquisition would have to pull favors to get a superheavy.

In fact, Marines basically have no legal authority outside of their recruiting worlds. They're going to have to do some serious, chapter-threatening favors to get superheavies that aren't just temporarily on loan.

And even then most superheavies they'd not be able to operate because they're too big to get in the vehicles, which were designed for the far smaller human race, so it'd take special modification to do it.

If you want an Ultramarines Baneblade to play with, I say go for it. You can argue the fluff back and forth, but it's beyond legal for Apoc, and it's far less abusive than a lot of other stuff you can take in Apoc. (I'm looking at you, Warhound with two turbolasers).

Yeah, I really don't care what you take in apoc either. Just pointing out that it's not really fluffy.

It's not entirely unfluffy for marines to have a supporting baneblade. The Tyranid Codex has Calgar falling for a swarmlord trap and losing "the mighty Baneblade Pride of Hera." So it does seem that marines have some ability to command super heavies.

Page 13 of the Nid Codex, if your interested.

Calgar is a unique case, because he's not only the Master of the Ultras, but also the feudal lord of the Ultramar Empire. He does directly command IG (well, PDF technically) as well as marines.

There are certianly instances where Marines have taken over command of a joint imperial effort, but I'd imagine there are always issues, such as the marines not knowing the ablities of the IG as well as an IG general.

andruin wrote:It's not entirely unfluffy for marines to have a supporting baneblade. The Tyranid Codex has Calgar falling for a swarmlord trap and losing "the mighty Baneblade Pride of Hera." So it does seem that marines have some ability to command super heavies.

Page 13 of the Nid Codex, if your interested.

That's because Calgar was inexplicably in charge of the conventional forces defending Macragge, a task he repeatedly bungled before sending his marines to die in their holes in the ground, while leading the naval assets under his command into a trap, and abandoning the conventional troops to their own devices. Tellingly, once he was out of the picture, they soundly defeated the Tyranids on the ground, after the Navy shows up and butchers the Hive Fleet...

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
That's because Calgar was inexplicably in charge of the conventional forces defending Macragge, a task he repeatedly bungled before sending his marines to die in their holes in the ground, while leading the naval assets under his command into a trap, and abandoning the conventional troops to their own devices. Tellingly, once he was out of the picture, they soundly defeated the Tyranids on the ground, after the Navy shows up and butchers the Hive Fleet...

Not sure what that particular axe you're grinding has to do with superheavies!

On topic, you could also probably consider the Land Raider Achilles as a superheavy. Being immune to the melta and lance special rules means it can take quite a bit of punishment. If you spring for and extra stormbolter and multimelta, the thing will be near impossible to glance to death.

Does not a super heavy go against the doctrine of the space marines? Super heavies are slow and lumbering ( cept the eldar who can make thier super heavies fly..) and go against the swift strike tactics. Land Raiders are about as close as they get and really as close as they would need for their role. Super heavies seem to me to be for a squishy / lumbering army.

andruin wrote:It's not entirely unfluffy for marines to have a supporting baneblade. The Tyranid Codex has Calgar falling for a swarmlord trap and losing "the mighty Baneblade Pride of Hera." So it does seem that marines have some ability to command super heavies.

Page 13 of the Nid Codex, if your interested.

Note that here it's still not technically a Space Marine baneblade, but an Ultramar PDF Baneblade crewed by human troops. Also, it's a weird situation where the whole thing about Space Marines not having command of other forces is forgotten because of course the Ultramarines are special...though yes it's a much better representation than the Fanfic Fellblade or a direct loyalist SM Baneblade. Having a BB of a PDF or IG regiment with a couple tanks or platoons of infantry as escort, fighting alongside SM's fits the fluff a lot better than an outright SM baneblade.

I don't think a space marine can fit inside a super heavy cockpit. Being inside an actual tank is pretty cramp and wearing armor inside the cockpit would be very uncomfortable imho.

Who says they have to wear power armour while crewing a tank? It seems like it would be a little redundant.


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Doctadeth wrote:babab war part 2 has BS 4 marine superheavies on the seccessionalist side.
...

What page was this on?

Zuul wrote:Who says they have to wear power armour while crewing a tank? It seems like it would be a little redundant.

They are still much bigger than the average human...

GeckoOBac wrote:

Zuul wrote:Who says they have to wear power armour while crewing a tank? It seems like it would be a little redundant.

They are still much bigger than the average human...

I have to call BS.


Too big to fit in a super heavy? No way. It's in a book, so it's cannon.

they could just have a single Techmarine drive the transport and have Chapter Serfs crew the rest of it.


and who is there to say that there arn't other marine chapters who also have little empires like Maccragge?

I have my Chapter ruling a small empire in the Galactic core and they have command of the IG equivilant, including Super Heavies.

Grey Templar wrote:and who is there to say that there arn't other marine chapters who also have little empires like Maccragge?

The Imperium. They don't like it and they'd do everything they can to discourage it

Marines are poor civilian governors, seeing as they have absolutely no experience in that area.

I want a DEldar superheavy. Massive raiding barge. Have Vect chilling on a massive throne on top. 6 broadside dark lances.