Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

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**Frazzled**

It should be noted about a week before vandals stole the flag at the veteran momnument on campus and burned it, created some hard feelings.

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/flag-burning-lsu-campus-20110511-ncx

**SilverMK2**

Any chance of a C&P?

**Frazzled**

Whats a C&P?

**SilverMK2**

Frazzled wrote:Whats a C&P?

Cucumber and pickle

No, I mean a copy and paste - the site is blocked at work.

**Manstein**

Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

Updated: Wednesday, 11 May 2011, 10:09 PM EDT
Published : Wednesday, 11 May 2011, 1:22 PM EDT

NEWSCORE - A mob of angry protesters chased a would-be flag burner at Louisiana State University (LSU) off campus Wednesday to chants of "USA, USA."

Graduate communications student Benjamin Haas had earlier been given permission by the school to burn the flag. But because he lacked a local burn permit, he agreed instead to read a statement in an area of the university known as free speech alley.

As Haas read the statement, a crowd around him erupted into cheers and jeers, many shouting "Go to hell, hippie, go to hell."

"You had a lot of people on both sides of the debate getting into a lot of fights," said James Haralson, manager of Tiger TV, the university television station. "The students started yelling obscenities at him. People started throwing bottles at him."

Fox News reports that Haas' actions were in response to the arrest of another student, who was charged with taking and burning the American flag once posted at LSU's War Memorial. That incident came just hours after Osama bin Laden's killing by US Navy SEALS last week.

Haralson, who filmed the protest, said Haas was surrounded by police officers on horseback and as they protest swelled, they moved him to a safer location.

"At that point, all the students began rushing him, continuing to throw trash at him," he said. "He was finally escorted into a cop car in the street and students were banging on the cop car."

LSU spokesman Ernie Ballard said the school endorsed neither Haas' actions, nor those of the crowd around him.

Word of the potential burning had sparked pockets of anger throughout the campus.

"It's time that my generation stand up for what they believe in and exercise their freedom of speech and let people know that we are not OK with this," said Cody Wells, the student government association president. "I am angry that an individual would want to do this at a public higher education institution."

**SilverMK2**

Article wrote:"It's time that my generation stand up for what they believe in and exercise their freedom of speech and let people know that we are not OK with this," said Cody Wells, the student government association president.

... By maturely throwing things, chasing people around, shouting insults and so on?

Yay! Another win for "Free Speech" triumphing over someone who thinks differently to you!

**Melissia**

I know I grew up amongst Americana and loving America in general (despite what some people might think), but I never got over how some people seem to think that the US flag is a religious icon or other that is inviolate...

Of course to many people it's okay to burn religious iconography such as the Qur'an but it's not okay to bur the US flag.

**Kilkrazy**

a confused person wrote:"It's time that my generation stand up for what they believe in and exercise their freedom of speech and let people know that we are not OK with this," said Cody Wells, the student government association president. "I am angry that an individual would want to do this at a public higher education institution."

Standing up for freedom of speech means physically attacking someone you disagree with, apparently.

Hmm. Cognitive dissonance.

**Manstein**

I am a student at LSU, although I am currently abroad I still have many friends and family members who attend LSU. I asked them about this and some of them who were present stated that the physical violence towards Haas was actually pretty limited. There were a few instances where someone lost control and through some things but overall the "counter" demonstration was limited to chants and general noise.

Regardless, a lot of counter protesters showed up... like.... hundreds, it was insane.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, although I don't think its correct to resort to violence, for a lot of people the American flag does carry a lot of meaning. Especially for veterans or family members of veterans who have died in the line of duty. When a mother/wife/husband's spouse and / child dies the military gives them an American flag. For someone who has lost a loved one in a war the flag can mean a great deal.

Besides, the guy was burning the flag on the basis that the other individual, Isaac something, stole and burned a $8,000 American flag on the parade grounds. I can get if he is protesting America, but he was protesting the arrest of someone who is, for all intents and purposes, a thief and arsonist.

**Chongara**

Personally I'm shocked this happened. There is just no way this poor guy could have known conservatives would react this way. This is a huge surprise and totally unexpected.

**Kilkrazy**

Freedom of speech cuts all ways. It allows the flag burner -- whatever his reason -- and the counter protestors as long as they don't resort to violence. It allows the Westoboro Baptists and the Patriot Guard Riders.

**Ahtman**

Manstein wrote:Also, although I don't think its correct to resort to violence, for a lot of people the American flag does carry a lot of meaning. Especially for veterans or family members of veterans who have died in the line of duty.

It means more than the Bill of Rights or rule of law? You know, the things they joined the military to defend?

**daedalus**

I kind of want to see a transcript of the statement he was reading.

**Manstein**

Ahtman wrote:
Manstein wrote:Also, although I don't think its correct to resort to violence, for a lot of people the American flag does carry a lot of meaning. Especially for veterans or family members of veterans who have died in the line of duty.

It means more than the Bill of Rights or rule of law? You know, the things they joined the military to defend?

I don't see what your point is here. Sure, he should still be allowed to do what he did unmolested, but it is naive to think that there will not be people who respond on an emotional level. Regardless of how you logic is out, for a lot of people the flag is something that has an emotional basis, and therefore emotional reactions are going to take place.

**Mannahnin**

I'm from a military family and I have a good degree of reverence for the flag; I actually observe much of the Flag Code which seems to get ignored a lot nowadays.

But IMO people who resort to violence over stuff like this are crapping on the Bill of Rights. Which is a darn sight more important than the flag.

**Melissia**

Manstein wrote:Regardless of how you logic is out, for a lot of people the flag is something that has an emotional basis, and therefore emotional reactions are going to take place.

Which is not a justification. Yes, we know that is why they reacted how they did, but they shouldn't have.

The flag is nothing but a symbol which is pretty to look at... the bill of rights is something that actually has had a profound, far-reaching, and (thus far) permanent effect on our country. It's not as exciting to gaze at, but it's more important.

**Manstein**

http://www.lsureveille.com/tdr-exclusive-transcript-of-benjamin-haas-speech-1.2562035

Here is a link to a photo taken of Haas's speech, it reads:

"Funny Facebook said that there were only going to be 64 of you. I initially began this flag burning protest to define due process for students and suspected terrorists alike, to call on LSU and universities across the country to defend basic human rights and avoid putting students into the criminal justice system when it can be taken care of internally.

Solidarity means standing with those who are treated as guilty until proven innocent, instead of the other way around. That's what freedom is, standing with those who express their constitutional rights in ways that may be unpopular, especially the accused and the marginalized no matter the consequences.

In the name of peace, there will be no flag burning today. This country and the flag that flies over it stands for freedom, democracy, love, peace and the ability to question our government."

In effect, he was protesting the arrest of a guy who caused $8,000 worth of damage to school property and claiming that the guy should not have been arrested, and that is arrest unconstitutional. All of which is completely foolish because the guy stole public property and then committed arson.

To top it all off, Haas never even planned on burning a flag. He said he would simply to garner attention and draw out a crowd of emotional reactions. In effect, Haas was trollin'.

**Frazzled**

SilverMK2 wrote:
Article wrote:"It's time that my generation stand up for what they believe in and exercise their freedom of speech and let people know that we are not OK with this," said Cody Wells, the student government association president.

... By maturely throwing things, chasing people around, shouting insults and so on?

Yay! Another win for "Free Speech" triumphing over someone who thinks differently to you!

Well,
1. I'd personally argue speech is speech. BNurning a flag is an act. SCOTUS disagrees but I think you know what I think of SCOTUS...

2. No freedom of speech on campus. having said that he had followed all school procedures appropriately.
3. He picked the wrong freaking time doing this a week after the monument vandalism. That Louisiana. They eat people there.

4. I'm just saddened at the lack of torches and pitchforks.

This is a proper angry mob
"A riot ist an ugly Ting..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo1AWW4LV_A&feature=related

**Manstein**

Melissia wrote:
Manstein wrote:Regardless of how you logic is out, for a lot of people the flag is something that has an emotional basis, and therefore emotional reactions are going to take place.
Which is not a justification. Yes, we know that is why they reacted how they did, but they shouldn't have.

The flag is nothing but a symbol which is pretty to look at... the bill of rights is something that actually has had a profound, far-reaching, and (thus far) permanent effect on our country. It's not as exciting to gaze at, but it's more important.

It isn't meant to be a justification, it is meant to explain the reactions of the people who were upset. They wern't a bunch of stupid hicks out to silence whoever was "disrespectin' der countray," is was normal people upset about what they perceived to be a slight. Regardless, the amount of "violence" is dramatically overstated but those who who did engage in it should be condemed for their actions.

**Melissia**

Actually, I should take that one step further.

It's not that the bill of rights is MORE important, rather, it's the only one of the two (the flag being the other one) that actually has any real importance. If someone really wanted to burn a representation of all that is America in protest of the country's government's actions, then they should burn a copy of our constitution.

**Frazzled**

Ahtman wrote:
Manstein wrote:Also, although I don't think its correct to resort to violence, for a lot of people the American flag does carry a lot of meaning. Especially for veterans or family members of veterans who have died in the line of duty.

It means more than the Bill of Rights or rule of law? You know, the things they joined the military to defend?

I doubt many people join the military for the Bill of Rights. None in my family ever did.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mannahnin wrote:I'm from a military family and I have a good degree of reverence for the flag; I actually observe much of the Flag Code which seems to get ignored a lot nowadays.

But IMO people who resort to violence over stuff like this are crapping on the Bill of Rights. Which is a darn sight more important than the flag.

Agreed.

**Ahtman**

Manstein wrote:I don't see what your point is here.

Here:

Mannahnin wrote:But IMO people who resort to violence over stuff like this are crapping on the Bill of Rights. Which is a darn sight more important than the flag.

Saying people love the Bill of Rights so much that they will violate it makes no sense, emotional or logical. If they actually loved it they would not purposefully violate it, no matter how much they disagreed.

**lindsay40k**

Can't figure how to embed here, so: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBCkm9-LvRg

nsfw, if work disapproves of the eff word.

**Melissia**

Frazzled wrote:I doubt many people join the military for the Bill of Rights. None in my family ever did.

My family served because of the benefits first and foremost. That, and the country didn't stop believing in war until Vietnam, and my father served in Korea.

I imagine most people join for the sake of the benefits, as well as for self-improvement nowadays (with us being overweight as a nation).

Patriotism has to be balanced out by the fact that you could very well die a violent gruesome death, after all.

**Frazzled**

Melissia wrote:
Frazzled wrote:I doubt many people join the military for the Bill of Rights. None in my family ever did.
My family served because of the benefits first and foremost. That, and the country didn't stop believing in war until Vietnam, and my father served in Korea.

Dad and his brother joined so they could eat and certain matters involveing the police

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frankly the lack of proper ptuchfork/flaming torch carrying in this thread is becoming disturbing. Come on people, we don't get angry mobs every day!

**biccat**

I'm sort of surprised at the reaction here. Based on previous threads, I would have assumed that there would have been calls for arresting the guy who threatened to burn the flag (although he didn't, because he wasn't able to get a permit, but that's another issue).

I don't see anything wrong with the guy's protest (except for the fact that it's a stupid protest and obviously ineffective), and the "mob" were the ones in the wrong, insofar as they resorted to violence or threats against him.

**Mannahnin**

Oh, and BTW, while I support the concept that burning the flag can be a form of speech, I think they guy that stole and burned an $8k flag that didn't belong to him is a total douchnozzle, and should indeed be prosecuted for it.

**SilverMK2**

Frazzled wrote:Frankly the lack of proper ptuchfork/flaming torch carrying in this thread is becoming disturbing. Come on people, we don't get angry mobs every day!

Let just me make you a torch out of this flag...

**Melissia**

Mannahnin wrote:Oh, and BTW, while I support the concept that burning the flag can be a form of speech, I think they guy that stole and burned an $8k flag that didn't belong to him is a total douchnozzle, and should indeed be prosecuted for it.

Indeed. Prosecuted for theft and arson.

**Ahtman**

I meant swore to defend, not join to defend. One of the first things a recruit does when they join the service is take an oath to do what again?