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Heavy Bolters are often neglected in many IG and SM (and variant) lists for a simple reason: they really don't do that much for their points compared to similarly costed weapons.

For example, how many IG players will upgrade a CSS, Vet Squad or HWT to carry the Heavy Bolter over an Autocannon? Not many since the Autocannon outshines the Heavy Bolter in both range and strength.

Sure you get 1 additional shot with the Heavy Bolter, but that really doesn't make up for what you sacrifice to take them over an Autocannon. Even at high volume (assuming both at range) 9x S5 AP4 shots =/= 6x S7 AP4 shots for most applications (like anti-infantry as well as anti-armor).

So my question is this: what reasonable update would put the Heavy Bolter on equal footing with the Autocannon?

My suggestion would be to either make the Heavy Bolter a rending weapon, or increase its output to heavy 4, keeping the points and other stats the same.

What are your thoughts?

I think it should be Heavy 4. To be honest, I never take Heavy Bolters in my Tac squads; the Missile Launcher is much better, in my opinion.

I like the Heavy 4. What about pinning? When i think of a heavy machine gun, i think of a barrage of bullets coming at you and forcing you to hit the dirt to avoid being hit.

Pinning. Heavy 4. That alone makes it a more dynamic weapon, giving it a purpose other than what the Autocannon already does (better).

Heavy 4 pinning would make it more anti-infantry which would further seperate it from the Autocannon...
Good idea...

This is a fantastic idea. But should there be a distinction between vehicle mounted ones and infantry carried ones? Armor such as the Predators variants have their heavy bolter sponsons and people normally take these and there are a lot of them. Would this have the potential to make infantry outside of transports even more of a disadvantage?

Pinning, Heavy 4 is an excellent idea. I could actually see a Devastator squad equipped with those tearing hordes up.

Ever since playing Dawn of War 2, I've felt that the heavy bolter lacked a little something in its 40k implementation-- it simply isn't a particularly frightening weapon in many situations. I think a Heavy 4 Pinning heavy bolter would be far more impressive than the weapon is in its current form. However, it would have to come at the price of cost rebalances, as several current units would become quite frightening were heavy bolters buffed to this level-- see psybacks, dual HB landspeeders, etc.

Hmmm yeah I can totally see that.

Heavy 4, pinning is also now my vote.

Baal Pred with 4 rending shots and 8 pinning shots while moving around. This would make me very happy

Well, part of the problem could be solved by raising defensive weapon threshold to S5 so side sponsons are more of a factor. However I agree that making them at least pinning would be cool.

Surtur wrote:Well, part of the problem could be solved by raising defensive weapon threshold to S5 so side sponsons are more of a factor. However I agree that making them at least pinning would be cool.

No, no, no, no, NEVER!

As much as my IG player mind set would love that, that would make Mech lists reach a new thresh hold of power, whilst foot lists don't benifit in the slightest!


I love the idea of Heavy 4 pinning hvy bolters, my Havoks would screech in delight as the Ork Mob is being mowed down

So what do the ork players think of all this? lol

Sam__theRelentless wrote:So what do the ork players think of all this? lol

One extra wound isnt bad and ork mobs are usually fearless

Heavy 4 pinning is a great idea methinks. Although now I would always take heavy bolters on my valks/vendettas now!

Heavy 4, pinning would be very good... I'd use cheaper russes in my army, and think about this: Punisher with 3 Heavy bolters and a heavy stubber... Thats over 30 shots per tank!

I think that Heavy bolters could be used as Heavy 2, Pinning AP3 or Heavy 4, pinning... Depending on the choice.

Problem with a heavy 4 HB is that you will have to upgrade the AC too.

AC ar described as having a massive ROF and they are heavy 4.
is a HB really as fast as an AC?

Ogard wrote:Problem with a heavy 4 HB is that you will have to upgrade the AC too.

AC ar described as having a massive ROF and they are heavy 4.
is a HB really as fast as an AC?

No, then yes.

The autocannon is a very good choice these days, with good RoF, high strength and range. It's even better in the mech environment, whereas the Heavy Bolter appears to be lacking these days.
As for RoF, the Heavy Bolter is basically a Space Marine Heavy Machine gun (imagining the Bolter as a Machine Gun) for a simple analogy. HB's should have a superior RoF than autocannons IMHO.


I like this idea however and the unison that people are expressing in this thread. I think Heavy 4 is a suitable improvement, without pinning or a points increase (except for Dakka preds and similar possibly) it could make it a reasonable choice again.

How about making Heavy bolters a Rapid fire weapon? It would give infantry a mobile big gun. Plus double shots at closer ranges. 4 shots at 36" or 8 shots at 12" or 18". Alternatively keep it at 3 base and 6 during rapid fire.

The idea of a leman russ with three of these Heavy 4 Pinning heavy bolters and any number of its various weapons is disturbingly frightening.

You people really need to think outside of the Space Marine box.

Also, heavy bolters are not AP3. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

Just Dave wrote:

Ogard wrote:Problem with a heavy 4 HB is that you will have to upgrade the AC too.

AC ar described as having a massive ROF and they are heavy 4.
is a HB really as fast as an AC?

No, then yes.

The autocannon is a very good choice these days, with good RoF, high strength and range. It's even better in the mech environment, whereas the Heavy Bolter appears to be lacking these days.
As for RoF, the Heavy Bolter is basically a Space Marine Heavy Machine gun (imagining the Bolter as a Machine Gun) for a simple analogy. HB's should have a superior RoF than autocannons IMHO.


I like this idea however and the unison that people are expressing in this thread. I think Heavy 4 is a suitable improvement, without pinning or a points increase (except for Dakka preds and similar possibly) it could make it a reasonable choice again.

The AC he's referring to is the assault cannon, not the autocannon.

I will have to disagree. A heavy machine gun Vs a rotating barrel weapon.

I think the AC was designed to be like the "minigun" of 40k and i just dont think that a normal 1 barrel HB can deliver the same ROF.

I do agree however that maybe something needs to be done to make it more appealing. It is after all 1 of the more Iconic weapons of 40k


Oh saw it afterwards. i ment the Assault cannon. ninjad.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:The AC he's referring to is the assault cannon, not the autocannon.

Whoooops.

Heavy 4 would make it a tad too good, imho. That would make it a Scatter Laser with -1 strength, and for something like that the Heavy Bolter should have a signifiant cost increase.

I think the current lack of use of that weapon result more from a trend toward mech, as well as deep-striking, than from a stat issue.

So you want an extra shot and pinning for free on a weapon that already wound's my guys on a 2+ and ignores their armor save.

How about no?

DarknessEternal wrote:So you want an extra shot and pinning for free on a weapon that already wound's my guys on a 2+ and ignores their armor save.

How about no?

You should consider new tactics against it then... Do you have Tau, Orks or IG?

What he's saying is still substantially right.

Heavy bolters aren't weak. They're just of questionable use against mech armies, and most armies these days are mech. You can't really fix that without breaking the fluff and the game balance itself.

Melissia wrote:What he's saying is still substantially right.

Heavy bolters aren't weak.

Exactly. Heavy bolters are good at what they are good at. That what they're good at is frequently irrelevant is reflected in the points cost of heavy bolters being very cheap or even free.

If the heavy bolter got pinning, then the assault cannon would have to, as well as most of the machine gun style weapons in the game (it's called "suppressing fire", machine guns tend to be good at it :b). Of course if the HB was brought up to heavy 4, the AC would have to be brought up as well.

No, I think it represents the fluff fine as is, and fulfills it's role well enough. (Not that I couldn't see it be pinning, but it would fundamentally change every machine gun style gun in the game.)

CrazyThang wrote:If the heavy bolter got pinning, then the assault cannon would have to, as well as most of the machine gun style weapons in the game (it's called "suppressing fire", machine guns tend to be good at it :b). Of course if the HB was brought up to heavy 4, the AC would have to be brought up as well.

No, I think it represents the fluff fine as is, and fulfills it's role well enough. (Not that I couldn't see it be pinning, but it would fundamentally change every machine gun style gun in the game.)

Yes, I totally agree with you.

Why not give it "suppression fire": every "six" rolled to hit allows you to take another shot

I'd bump it up to heavy4 as well.