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So with the various Gamesdays coming up is anyone planning on confronting the 'faces' of GW and tackling them about the price hikes/ the southern hemisphere ban? What better way to get them to respond than to confront them direct. They may not be the big bosses but if enough of you raise the complaints they will undoubtably report back to home base.

Pay £30 to go and complain?

It seems a bit counterproductive.

Send a letter saying you are boycotting Games Day because of X,Y and Z. Enclose receipts for £30 spent on Infinity models.

What with the noise at gamesday, and of course the huge crowds, you'd have to be a Gideon Ninja ( Bill Hicks joke) to get anywhere near the GW faces.

What better way to get them to respond than to confront them direct.

Or you could not give the £30 to GW in the first place

I think that its accepted that there will be people on Dakka who will complain about the prices and GW yet will still buy and will still GO to Gamesday. So if they are willing to pay to get in and buy the the products surely they are entitled to raise concerns about the price hikes etc? We/they are surely the consumer, Killcrazy?

SO you're going to pay to go in and walk up to them with bags of their plasticcrap and then complain. Do you know how rediculous that sounds?

Frazzled wrote:SO you're going to pay to go in and walk up to them with bags of their plasticcrap and then complain. Do you know how rediculous that sounds?

My take home from this is, "Man, I hope someone FILMS it!"

How many Dakkas are going to rush out and buy resin tomorrow? Regardless of if you are driving a truck filled up with their products you are still entitled to ask questions. Frazzled it is all about holding them to account; at Gamesday people will have the chance to get a chance to put their points to some of the higher ups and possibly get answers. Its a golden chance to get really heard. As for buying stuff; we're all hypocrites. We will still continue to buy GW albeit from independents. Carrying bags of the stuff is totally irrelevant.

Considering the nature of many Internet loudmouths is anonymous complaining from behind a computer to avoid human interaction, I am unsure I can see many of those people having the balls or even the skills to confront 'the man' in person, especially since if you are abusive or argumentative you will probably get thrown out and possibly arrested if the person refuses to leave or is violent.

They also have talking points so any Internet questions asked, they will have a talking point to respond, and I guarantee their answers will go over just fine and the person 'confronting' will be quickly replaced with next question or made to be a hater. The dreams of being a heroic champion for the cause and forcing GW's president into a Col. jessup moment where you provoke GW into screaming "you can't handle the truth, you need us up there on that wall making your figures!!!" and being carried out on shoulders as a hero isn't going to happen.

But if you enjoy a good argument, making an ass of yourself and possibly yelling at someone who has nothing to do with the issue, have fun. It is like the county fair where all the local utilities and political parties have booths and you can go yell at your cable TV provider for being to expensive or your local political party for voting against a bill. Nothing actually gets done, but if it makes you feel good, go for it.

You could always try picketing outside of Gamesday. But then you'll just come off as a loony.

Hold on, I never suggested in the slightest that you should rant and rave. Has no-one ever heard of asking a straight forward question? If you calmly and politely ask a question you are expected to get an answer; they will not ignore you. Take into account that GW will be dreading these Q+A sessions as they will be well aware of the backlash, they will need to have a response beyond ignorance. Have faith.

Slipstream wrote:So with the various Gamesdays coming up is anyone planning on confronting the 'faces' of GW and tackling them about the price hikes/ the southern hemisphere ban? What better way to get them to respond than to confront them direct. They may not be the big bosses but if enough of you raise the complaints they will undoubtably report back to home base.

... No.

You will more then likly end up just getting thrown out, arrested, or beat up by a fanboy. You end up on Youtube as trollbait, and then thats it.

Confront them by voting with your wallet, just leave them, and go play some other game worthy of your time. !@#$ Gamesday.

Go have a counter tourny where you play any other game BUT GW... At tournies like Adeptocon, walk by and bust bals, or call them out there, but don't bother going to GW's event and think your not goingto get your ribs kicked in if you start !@##.

Take that 30 bones, and go start a new system.

!@#$ them. Vote with your wallet.

Heck, I'll actively try and prevent people going to Gamesday. There's only one place to kick a big corp like GW that it hurts, and that's square in the P&L.

Slipstream wrote:Hold on, I never suggested in the slightest that you should rant and rave. Has no-one ever heard of asking a straight forward question? If you calmly and politely ask a question you are expected to get an answer; they will not ignore you. Take into account that GW will be dreading these Q+A sessions as they will be well aware of the backlash, they will need to have a response beyond ignorance. Have faith.

You haven't seen these people in a real live in the flesh event, have you?


The kool aid flows deep in thier forums, they control the vertical, and the horizontal. In thier eyes, everything is golden ... thrones, and green... goblins.

Ask a question, they flim flam it, then your going to be kindly asked to leave after Q and A.

If they asked me to leave I'd calmly ask why and then say 'I'll leave when you refund my ticket. As far as I'm concerned I've asked a valid question which you have avoided, exactly what have I done wrong?' A bit glib but consider that there will be a big audience all listening to this; what will they make of it? I'm positive they'll see through BS when they hear it. I have been to one of their events and seen how smooth they are with their powerpoint presentations. I have not seen anyone raise a serious point with them before. I think they will be stopped in their tracks. If people are serious about calling GW to account all avenues must be explored.

I wonder if this could potentially set off a chain reaction riot on the gamesday floor (for some whacky reason). A lot of the people there are 'thinking' about it but wont have the balls to do so but after one scene compounds to another maybe word would pass around and create one huge aggro crowd ha.

I know the AUS Gamesday floor won't be great though. heh

Wait, HOW much do GD tickets cost this year?! Two years ago they were $25! Have they really gone up so much in the past two years? Wait...look who we're talking about...

Frazzled wrote:SO you're going to pay to go in and walk up to them with bags of their plasticcrap and then complain. Do you know how rediculous that sounds?

My point exactly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slipstream wrote:If they asked me to leave I'd calmly ask why and then say 'I'll leave when you refund my ticket. As far as I'm concerned I've asked a valid question which you have avoided, exactly what have I done wrong?' A bit glib but consider that there will be a big audience all listening to this; what will they make of it? I'm positive they'll see through BS when they hear it. I have been to one of their events and seen how smooth they are with their powerpoint presentations. I have not seen anyone raise a serious point with them before. I think they will be stopped in their tracks. If people are serious about calling GW to account all avenues must be explored.

You would do better to spend your £30 on GW shares and attend their annual general meeting to raise your points.

at best you will have a first hand experience of how it is to talk to a politician= person that can talk a lot without answering any of your question

Slipstream wrote:If they asked me to leave I'd calmly ask why and then say 'I'll leave when you refund my ticket.

You can ask, they won't refund you and they have no obligation to. if you attend even one minute, they have provided you a service which you paid for. THey have no obligation to refund you a dime regardless how dissatisfied you are.

As far as I'm concerned I've asked a valid question which you have avoided, exactly what have I done wrong?'

Your ticket owes you no answer, the Q&A are a courtesy and they owe you no answer. And if they don't want to answer they are not obligated to give you one. If you blink funny and they don't want you there, you are trespassing and can be removed.

A bit glib but consider that there will be a big audience all listening to this; what will they make of it? I'm positive they'll see through BS when they hear it.

No they won't. These people at corporate Q&As are usually witty, charming and well versed in answering tough questions. Remember, this is not a debate. You ask a question and they take the microphone away from you where they can spin, answer, change the topic, whatever. If you make a scene they instantly win.

I have been to one of their events and seen how smooth they are with their powerpoint presentations. I have not seen anyone raise a serious point with them before. I think they will be stopped in their tracks. If people are serious about calling GW to account all avenues must be explored.

They will not even miss a beat. And you will be silenced by being 'beaten' by a verbal flim-flam answer or thrown out for trespassing.

It is called voting with your wallet, the problem is people won't do it because they want their cake and to eat it too. Complaining and expecting change is the attitude of the entitled and ignorant. Not purchasing and not supporting GW (IE: no longer even playing the game and promoting for others to buy) is the only way to harm them. The issue is this won't happen and people have no integrity so they feel like they should only stop buying the plastic crack if they know it will harm them and they can eventually start buying again.

People simply won't walk away.

Slipstream wrote:So with the various Gamesdays coming up is anyone planning on confronting the 'faces' of GW and tackling them about the price hikes/ the southern hemisphere ban? What better way to get them to respond than to confront them direct. They may not be the big bosses but if enough of you raise the complaints they will undoubtably report back to home base.

I'm going to Chicago Games Day, and have in fact set up meetings with some of the GW higher ups for both Friday and Saturday nights.
I've prepared many questions and expect to get answers. These questions are:

1. So, what good beer do they serve here in Chicago?
2. Can you pass me another beer?
3. Hmmm, Jaegerbomb, this is a fruitpunch, right?
4. Why go to sleep, it's only 3 hours until the first Waagh?
5. Is there more beer?

I'll be going in asking these hard questions, and expect some answers!

Try to keep the protest rallies on the quiet side if you start early, I'm pretty sure my heads going to hurt something fierce.

Wear a T-shirt that says:

"I went to Games Day and all I got was overpriced products, southern hemisphere embargos, limits on news and rumours and a company that treats me like rubbish."

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Wear a T-shirt that says:

"I went to Games Day and all I got was overpriced products, southern hemisphere embargos, limits on news and rumours and a company that treats me like rubbish."

I don't think you can mention Games Day and not mention Waaaughs!
Free Waaaughs! are a huge benefit.
Although I like the free beer afterwards better...

Slipstream wrote: As for buying stuff; we're all hypocrites.

Not picking on Slipstream (especially as he isn't really arguing that we are), but this argument is made a lot. It seems to take the form "If you buy anything from GW, you approve of their business model. Only if you don't buy ANYTHING can you criticize their practices. If you buy ANYTHING and complain, you are a hypocrite."

I don't think most of us are hypocrites.

If Games Day was near me, I'd definitely be going. I enjoy it a lot, but I can't justify the travel expenses for a one day event. I think it would be very fair to tell GW reps, "I still buy GW miniatures, but I would definitely be buying MORE if it didn't cost so much. I think that you might be able to make more money if you sell more models with a lower profit margin, than selling fewer models with a larger profit margin. I know that many of my gaming friends are buying much less GW now than even 1 or 2 years ago. I know I am less likely to experiment with a new army or a new unit than I was even a few years ago."

For a lot of us, the price increases aren't some sort of switch that got flipped in our heads. We aren't going to go from "Buy everything!" to "Buy nothing!". However, we might decide that a unit of 5 models is fine, instead of a unit of 10. We might decide to keep the old model, rather than getting the new one. I don't know how GW could distinguish "people are just buying less because they are playing/painting less" from "people are buying less due to model cost" unless you tell them.

You don't have to be rude about it, but I think it would be something that would be constructive for them to hear.


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nkelsch wrote:
It is called voting with your wallet, the problem is people won't do it because they want their cake and to eat it too. Complaining and expecting change is the attitude of the entitled and ignorant. Not purchasing and not supporting GW (IE: no longer even playing the game and promoting for others to buy) is the only way to harm them. The issue is this won't happen and people have no integrity so they feel like they should only stop buying the plastic crack if they know it will harm them and they can eventually start buying again.

Again, this is the argument that I don't understand. If I can somehow affect GW by not spending ANY money on them, how is it that spending LESS money on their product has no effect?

How does GW magically know that $500 in decreased sales is due to a $500/year purchaser stopping all his purchases, vs. a $1000/year purchaser buying half as much?

I agree totally that you have to vote with your wallet, but I just can't understand the "stop buying anything or your actions mean nothing" attitude. It's not like GW will ignore any drop in revenue other than a crash to absolute zero. When you do vote with your wallet, let GW know what you want. There's nothing wrong, or "entitled", or "ignorant" with telling GW that you are purchasing less than in past years, and that is due to their price increases. Sure, they can disregard that message. They can always disregard an individual complaint.

However, I don't think GW is totally brain dead. They can figure out that people like to buy Space Marines. They can figure out that people like plastic kits. Some things they are capable of responding to correctly. However, a drop in sales without explanation lets GW interpret things in many ways. Is the drop in sales due to people buying less of a more expensive product, or is it due to people deciding to spend that money on video games, or another game system, or are we not attracting enough new players and the old players already have "enough models"?

I agree completely that just complaining and expecting things to be fixed is naive, at best. However, I disagree totally that your two options are
1)have no integrity and still buy stuff
or
2)quit the game completely whenever GW makes a decision you disagree with.

Da Butcha wrote:

I don't think most of us are hypocrites.

I do. I have seen a severe majority of the boycotters/haters/complainers/whatever who claim they are going to stop buying or reduce buying for financial/ethical reasons not even days later saying 'WOW! love that new kit, I am going to buy 7!'

I don't feel most of the people who complain have the strength to actually cut back consumption or quit, which is why they want to complain as if their complaints should be good enough to get things changed. I would say the most vocal people who are waving the torches and pitchforks make my head spin how quickly they are throwing cash at GW as soon as they want something.

If a company is unethical to a level you disagree with, you do not do business with them EVEN IF THEY MAKE A PRODUCT YOU LIKE. If you feel a company is unethical and you continue to do business with them, then you lack integrity. I would lose money or take financial harm to stop doing business with a company I have an issue with.

Since many people have claimed this time the actions of GW especially the shipping have crossed lines they haven't crossed before then it is time to put up or shut up. You can't say Kobe Beef is cruel and unethical and then continue to eat it because it tastes good. You can say you have no issue with Kobe Beef and eat it, or you can say it is bad and never eat it, but you can't be morally outraged and only eat it once in a while... that doesn't wash. If you have moral outrage to the levels of hyperbole expressed by people in these threads and you still buy GW products you are a giant hypocrite, it is that simple.

If a company is unethical to a level you disagree with, you do not do business with them EVEN IF THEY MAKE A PRODUCT YOU LIKE. If you feel a company is unethical and you continue to do business with them, then you lack integrity. I would lose money or take financial harm to stop doing business with a company I have an issue with.

To a point.) I still want to be able to drive my car to work, and it won't run without gasoline. I have a problem that every time gas goes through a 'shortage', the oil companies reap windfall profits, even with less people driving. But I still have to buy gas from them.

There's also an arguement to be made, that while many people disagree with GW's business practices, that doesn't make them unethical.

Frazzled wrote:SO you're going to pay to go in and walk up to them with bags of their plasticcrap and then complain. Do you know how rediculous that sounds?

Not so ridiculous if he uses said "plasticcrap" as an instrument of pain. Heck, flail it hard enough and I'm sure he could do some damage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Wear a T-shirt that says:

"I went to Games Day and all I got was overpriced products, southern hemisphere embargos, limits on news and rumours and a company that treats me like rubbish."

Hah. Would love to see a fan taking a photo with someone from GW whilst wearing this shirt.

Every time I go on the internet I'm still amazed by the fierce negativity that any suggestions to try and make a change are met with. I'm wholeheartedly fed up with the claims of it won't work they'll never listen. Has anyone EVER stood up at gamesday and said; "I think your models are great, however due to your incessant price rises I am being forced out of the hobby along with a great many others. If this continues it will surely have a huge impact on your company. You recently changed to resin as it is a cheaper material than metal yet you have not passed this onto your customers. Can you still justify your increases?". Now come on; how the hell is asking this question going to get someone thrown out? My point is NO ONE has ever stood up at these events and took them to task. Someone said just because we buy the product does not entitle us to answers? That is a new one on me. Try this mindset; To hell with being silent, silence gets you nowhere. Many naysayers need to realise this.

nkelsch wrote:I don't feel most of the people who complain have the strength to actually cut back consumption or quit,

This is why they make the threads and posts complaining - they're looking for validation.

The people genuinely leaving would be over in the warmahordes forums starting threads like "how do I get started with Cryx?"

Slipstream wrote:; "I think your models are great, however due to your incessant price rises I am being forced out of the hobby along with a great many others.

Half Hyperbole and half exaggerated lie. People are not being forced out... If you are, your financial state is probably not stable enough to even be paying for luxury entertainment goods. People can choose to quit, but being forced out is hyperbole.

If this continues it will surely have a huge impact on your company.

That's not a question, and GW knows a lot more than Internet complainers who consider reading wikipedia enough of a credential to pretend they have an MBA, so everyone is sure of the HUUUUUUUGE impact?

You recently changed to resin as it is a cheaper material than metal yet you have not passed this onto your customers. Can you still justify your increases?".

Where to start? They are not pouring resin into metal molds for a zero cost change of materials... and they have to pay company expenses and everything is going up, including rent, and shipping, and storage, and the world economy b lahblahblha....

Now come on; how the hell is asking this question going to get someone thrown out? My point is NO ONE has ever stood up at these events and took them to task. Someone said just because we buy the product does not entitle us to answers? That is a new one on me. Try this mindset; To hell with being silent, silence gets you nowhere. Many naysayers need to realise this.

Your question is full of emotion, false information, based on a false premise, kinda entitled and insulting and VERY EASY to give a reasonable answer to, especially in a public Q&A...

Which means you will get an answer, just not the answer you want which is "oh, we are greedy and do it to screw you."

Makes the entire thing an excersize in futility, and the person who supposedly stands up is a giant fool.