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A Friendly debate. (NOT including Special Characters)

-Which army did you choose?

-Why do you support you're decision?

-Which Lord / Hero did you pick?

-With what gear?

Have fun!

Wood Elf Highborn with Alter kindred, additional hand weapon, Gambler's Armour,shield, an annoyance of netlings and amber pendant

Not that I am a expert in the wood Elf area but something tells me they hit ahrd but can they take a hit back?

There are some nasty lord and hero set ups for warriors extremely good armor saves 3 or 4+ ward saves plus a ton of attacks at a high weapon skill and those attacks are sure to be str 6 with killing blow or some nasty other effects and a nice toughness.

Glaive of putrefaction if you take a wound you are str and toughness 2 for the rest of the game painful sorta.
Sword of change also quite fun tkae a wound oh take a toughness test oh you failed your a spawn sucks for you
The stop hitting yourself combo is always fun re roll successful rolls to hit any 1s rolled hit the attacking model (sword and armor combo).

High elves might be up there they can be nasty and quite the bunch of cheaters

I think Chakax from Lizardmen is really good at dueling ( hes actually created for that purpose )

He can nullify your magic weapons, make you strike last, and he get special ward saves in duels.

I'd agree but I'd much rather look amongst the Non- named Lords and Heroes.
The named characters would make this debate much less intresting as they almost all are a bit wonky and powerful


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My vote goes with a Lizardmen Oldblood

With a Great weapon , Cold One , Talisman of 4+ ward save , Tricksters helm (Opponent rerolls succesful wounds) , and a shield.

Thats a 1+ arm , 4+ ward , Toughness 5 model with 3 wounds that you reroll succesful wounds against.

Lizardmen Int is almsot always going last so i like to take the hits my opponent gives out and then hit back with 5 attacks at STR 7

But then he suffers from stupidity on the Cold one >:"D

meh , Ld 8 check on cold blooded usual passes


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Plus its an extra str 4 attack and fear

Can you do the shield helm combo because isnt that 2 pieces of armor? Str 5 isnt bad str 6 is better and at a higher initiative.

To be fair, I don't feel excluding special charcters will make this debate any well rounded. Also, costs should be taken into consideration.

I only know the Orcs and Gobs codex anyways. I can't really contribute at the moment.

True very good point. Liz old blood is prob dirt cheap compared to a chaos lord then again most things are cheap compared to a chaos lord but still they are extremely bad @$$ even just stock.

You can take the sheild and the helm because the rule only applies to two pieces of the same armor type IE: 2 helms or 2 shields.

@Wysten - I understand where you're coming from but I rather like the idea of comparing Lords and heroes only because of the multiple ways you can equip them for fighting.

I disinclude Named Characters because of the power levels (lol) of some of them.

IE: "I take grimgor Ironhide so I automatically win this conversation"

Ok sorry im sick at the moment and sleep deprived my bad ya your right.


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Archaon, the everchosen is how I how I retaliate with a named character.

@ cowpow , Exactly.

Archaon is just another version of

"HES THE BEST SO I WIN LOOK AT ME!"

I think its a bit more fun to build generic charactors to duelling standards than to take a 2384983279 point model that kills everything

Nothing cooler than 2 Lords fighting in a challenge for 2 or 3 turns.

(Like my Oldblood vs My brothers Bretonnian Lord with Gauntlet of the duel) good fun

Yes but hey for 685 I expect him to be hey I kill everything I see. YES HE IS A BAJILION points but seriously for that price he better be a boss.

You took 2 3 turns jeez really? did he have a good build? This saddens me when ever I fight bretts in challenges they always get hacked to pieces before they get to attack back making my opponent call my list cheesy and over powered :( whats his lords build?

Brett Lords can be nasty.

He has (from memory so forgive me)

Horse and lance standard

1+ armor save , 5+ regen , 5+ ward (from the bretonnian prayer) , Gauntlet of the duel (When he issue a challenge someone HAS to accept) , Magical sword that is str 5 and forces your opponent to reroll succesful armor saves. A viture that lets him reroll hits and wounds in a duel.

Some games he takes some item that gives em killing blow too.

Don't quote me on any of the stuff above , His lord ahs all those abilities im just not 100% what item gives what power.

Top it off hes Int 6 , WS 6 , with 5 attacks me thinks , Tgh 4 aint bad , He charges in with str 6 lance and after the first round he whips out this magical sword .

Hes not joke forcing you to duel him. Not the hardest hitting but he can take someone down

Ok that is sort of nasty I dont know what my friend takes but his always dies its very disappointing if you know what I mean.

Not like im going to turn down a challange (not like I can either but muahahaha)

Ill see if my friend will try that out

But isnt the regen silly since he has the 5up ward since you can only take 1 or the other as in armor then ward or regen?

If he costs nearly 700 points, I would expect him to beat anyways. As said, I was just curious as to why that was.

Just again, perhaps some costs to go with the charcters would help a little so we can get a perspective on them?

Bloodthirster of khorne: Obsidian armour, Firestorm blade, Immortal fury. He has 3+ Armour save which is good, strength 7 with flaming attacks and can re-roll missed hits in close combat. Oh yeah and enemy magical weapons lose their magical abilities when the bearer is in base contact.

An Empire Level 1 with the Speculum. Or a WP with this item, as he gets hatred for a turn. Add a weapon of your liking for more attacks or higher strength.

@Cowpow
The Armor , regen , and ward all now stack.
So essentially that regen costs him like 5 points and now he has a 1+ , then a 5+ , then another 5+.

@wysten , I understand and i am not trying to come down on you for it , im sure some people will bring them up but lets try to keep it as generic as we can.

@Heacy , yeah bloodthirsters are just nasty in general

You can take the sheild and the helm because the rule only applies to two pieces of the same armor type IE: 2 helms or 2 shields.

The rule is about magic items. You may only take 1 magical item per category. You could take a magical helm (the only types of helms listed anyway) and a normal shield. You cannot take both a magical helm and magical shield however.

The Armor , regen , and ward all now stack. So essentially that regen costs him like 5 points and now he has a 1+ , then a 5+ , then another 5+.

This is incorrect. You may take a ward save OR a regen save. You may not take both on the same turn. So you could take a 1+ and a 5+ but not the 2nd 5+

As for the original question, I ended up voting for Chaos Lords. I assumed the discussion would be about models on foot. If you start factoring in mounts, then anyone who has access to Dragons will be far more dangerous than those who don't. As far as models on foot, Chaos Lords can have some of the scariest builds out there. There are always tricks to take them down, but if you are creating an "all comer" lord, then the Chaos guy would probably roflstomp almost everyone outside of a speculum empire lord, and maybe even the speculum guy provided the Chaos Lord has the right load out.

Lord Solar Plexus wrote:An Empire Level 1 with the Speculum. Or a WP with this item, as he gets hatred for a turn. Add a weapon of your liking for more attacks or higher strength.

A old favourite combo of mine, though I dont use level 1's. Its fair to assume you do your best to make him a good support caster too. How much is Van Horstmanns Speculum now? Been a long time since I played Empire.

In any case assuming 'wasteage' by making him level 2 and filling up whats left of his magic item allocation with caster stuff you still have a real nasty duellist for the price.

For 1000pt games:

Saurus Oldblood w/ Sword of the Hornet, Armour of Destiny, Bane Head

2+ AS, 4+ Ward, ASF and deals double wounds to nominated enemy, all for 235pts.

EDIT: Could even throw a shield on him if you wanted to and still have him fit for 1k.

Avatar 720 wrote:For 1000pt games:

Saurus Oldblood w/ Sword of the Hornet, Armour of Destiny, Bane Head

2+ AS, 4+ Ward, ASF and deals double wounds to nominated enemy, all for 235pts.

EDIT: Could even throw a shield on him if you wanted to and still have him fit for 1k.

I just can't do it , I don't think taking items to go first is how to make a lizardmen character.
I like to tool up and take the hits on my good armor and toughness and then hit back like a bus.

Almost dwarf like

Daemons makes sense a little prince all kitted out then gets stepped on by a KOS

Lv. 4 Empire death wizard
Sword of fate
Van Horstman's Speculum
The Chrimson Amulet

He gets your statline, wounds on a 2, and does D3 wounds for each one he causes. You get no armour saves. He is also a lv. 4 death wizard so he can kill you with magic before you get close. He cuts through all enemy characteres including specail characters like the witch elf one.

Arch Lector with the War Altar, the speculum, and a 1+rerollable armor save. Complete the package with a great weapon for about 300 points or so.

This guy has a 1+ rerollable armor and a 4+ ward, is unbreakable, and is riding a 5-wound monster also with a 4+ ward. Then again, as long as he's in a challenge, anything that has more than two attacks will likely have them stolen and replaced with the archlector's lousy statline. He simply will. Not. Die. Then, too, he hits you at +2 str off whatever the stat-swapped str is (usually at least 6).

Paradoxically, an arch lector built like this will make short work of bloodthirsters, daemon princes, ogre tyrants, chaos lords, vampire lords, and other traditionally scary combat characters. He struggles the most with, say, high elves or opposing empire characters whose stats are actually even worse than his own. However, I have never lost this character in a challenge in my two years playing the game, and I'm quite confident in backing him as the ultimate challenge-winner and unbeatable duelist.

Somebody suggested a level 1 wizard, but I'd suggest that's an inferior way to go due to the wizard's inability to wear decent armor.

Brettonian Lords are kittable to do so many things.

The 1+ Re-rollable armor save, with a 4+ ward, and killing I blow does not suck, I think you can end up immune to killing blow also.

How about Treeman Ancient with Annoyance of Netlings?