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I've been a fan of the Vindicare assassin since my first game as GK.
It seems like a no brainer - Remove any single wound model in any squad within 36" as long as you don't roll a 1 to wound. Penetrate the crap out of any vehicle, and destroy it 50% of the time. For 145 points, it's got 2 wounds, a 4+ invul, and it can infiltrate into area terrain for a 3+ cover save. It can even make a hail mary limited FNP to survive small arms or cc attacks. It seems like an amazing unit. The problem people seem to find with it is it becomes a priority target for the opponent's heavy weapons fire. I don't quite see that as a huge problem, as it's drawing str 8 fire away from other precious units, and in a worst case scenario, it can still go to ground for a nigh invincible 2+ cover save.

Tactically, I've seen a lot of different threads that involve the vindicare. Stick it in a rhino or chimera to give it a hard candy shell, and it can still get a 3+ cover save from the destroyed vehicle in a focused fire scenario. I'd like to see some discussion regarding the unit's viability in competitive play, because I feel like it may be a far more effective unit than people give it credit for.

Vindicare aside, the other assassins of the grey knights seem to get a lot less play and I'd like to discuss those as well.

The eversor assassin is a second favorite for me; with its ability to lay out a massive number of hits on a squad, I'd assume it's best use is either being deployed out of a carefully controlled reserve scenario (psychic communion) or charging out of an assault vehicle. At 130 points, is the eversor worth playing? It's still got 2 wounds and a 4+ invul; it's most likely going first in assault, and it's getting a large number of decent strength lightning claw attacks. It seems, on paper, like a very strong elite choice, but is it?

The Callidus assassin is an interesting unit, it shows up in the spot you need it most, lands a few deadly hits on a squad, and then opens up with an iffy template weapon, the obvious drawback being that it can't hide in the safety of close combat on the round it enters play, and will inevitably get shot at by any models that survived its initial attack; however, if it does survive that next round, it becomes a very effective harraser that can get in it's ID CC attacks and then hit and run. It seems like it was meant to take out a few teqs and then die. Is it worth it's points?

The Culexis seems like the most difficult assassin to employ effectively, essentially, it seems you want to keep it within your own ranks, and use it to supplement close range fire and soften targets for assault, but in order to take advantage of it's abilities, you need to either keep a few units clustered around it, which doesn't seem like the most effective way to actually use grey knights. Perhaps walking it behind a mixed henchmen squad featuring a psychic inquisitor, a psyker, and a mystic? But that seems like a lot of work in order to take advantage of a less than impressive shooting attack. What is the best way to make a culexis work? I considered running one in a draigo list, where I could flank it with a pair of 1 man paladin squad bodyguards; but it just seemed like a massive waste of points.

I'm hoping that this doesn't descend into an 'assassin's suck' thread, I'd really like to know what tactics people are using or have considered regarding these fun units.

Thanks mate,i'd not considered using my old vindicare with my new grey knights up untill now.Im just learning how to play and hopefully having my first game in my local flgs next week,if i use him ill let you know how effective he was/is.

Vindicare is probably the best of the bunch.

That being said, they are not really that hard to kill (a 3+ cover fails fairly often, and if you go to ground then you do nothing until next turn, when they shoot you some more.

The few games I've played against them i just shot a few missiles at them until they went splat. Granted thats focusing fire away from other things, but it's usually worth it considering the damage it can do.

Putting them in a rhino / chimera helps negate this slightly (rhino is better since you are harder to shake / stun), but you have to really plan for this by buying an extra rhino, and you lose at least 1 turn of shooting (more if you get shaken / stunned / pinned).

Your best bet is probably to stick it in somewhere in the back and give the enemy other "more important" targets in their face to focus on, and take out as many valuable models / tanks as possible. Though, even then, the first time you take out a power fist or blow up a land raider the enemy will probably be pissed off enough to start focusing on him, but honestly for only 145 points that really isn'y always a bad thing.

he is like a veteran squad of guardsmen with demolitions. just a suicide unit that makes its points back and more, or just to kill that sgt. with a power fist befor a unit of grey knights charges in. what i use him as is a support unit for my grey knights, i take 2 to support my units as they move down the field. but you may have a different opinion?


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oh this is the vindi i am talik'in about

Tech Guard wrote: what i use him as is a support unit for my grey knights, i take 2 to support my units as they move down the field. but you may have a different opinion?

How is that, you can only have 1 of each Assassin type.

Noir wrote:

Tech Guard wrote: what i use him as is a support unit for my grey knights, i take 2 to support my units as they move down the field. but you may have a different opinion?

How is that, you can only have 1 of each Assassin type.

You need to read your codex.

But yes, I think the vindicare is the best. Callidus is fun to use, especially combined with karamazovs OSR. Eversor dies due to being a cloud of death that the opponent must mill. Culexus is too short ranged and with no combat ability.


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Tech Guard wrote:he is like a veteran squad of guardsmen with demolitions. just a suicide unit that makes its points back and more, or just to kill that sgt. with a power fist befor a unit of grey knights charges in. what i use him as is a support unit for my grey knights, i take 2 to support my units as they move down the field. but you may have a different opinion?


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oh this is the vindi i am talik'in about

Oh, and work on your grammar. Your writings hard to read.

on a purge are we and i am mainly taliking tactics not rules, you know that thing that people tend to forget about.


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oh and my grammer is horrible because it's the internet, or do you want me to write a peom about how to use assassins.
I basically forgot about that rule of only being aloud to use one of each assassins thanks for reminding me

Tech Guard wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh and my grammer is horrible because it's the internet, or do you want me to write a peom about how to use assassins.

No, your stuff is really hard to read. You could simply have taken the time you used to write that comment to check your stuff. Most modern browsers even come with a spell check.

Each assassin is Unique so you can only take one of each.

Ok I relent I am a gak house speller.


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Gornell read the entire tread



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I reposted my thoughts

I've been looking at the viablility of the other assassins recently, too. But, for me, one of the reasons I wasn't going to take any was because I thought they can't take dedicated transports - it doesn't say they can go in them in codex and I certainly wouldn't buy a LR or SR for one. When people are saying give them a rhino or chimera, are they buying them for a different squad and then putting the assassin in them after the game starts? I know that DCA can take a dedicated transport because they are henchmen.

Another thing that put me off taking any of the others is that they are not an IC. I'd love to put the Eversor in my army but I can see him ending up like crowe - just trying his best to get into a scrap but ending up doing nothing other than giving up a kill point. The vindicare is great because he has infiltrate and a 36" range but the Eversor doesn't. My problem with him is that delivering him into combat seems very difficult and nobody is going to leave a valuable unit open to an assault from an Eversor next turn.

Cold, yeah, you want to steal a transport from another squad, improving that squad's transport to LR or SR.

I definitely think the assassins would be over powered if they could attach to units, but I don't mind sticking him inside a spare vehicle, he's like the prize in a crackerjack box... you run that vehicle as far towards the enemy as you can, then pop smoke. Ideally you want the enemy to destroy that vehicle, but not immediately, so your eversor can get cover in the wreck for the remainder of shooting, then fleet into assault - It's not a dynamite tactic by any means, but it works against slow armies.


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I think that the Callidus has a use, in a list with double psychic communion, to come in on turn 5 and contest an objective. By that late in the game, the enemy is most likely spread out far enough and otherwise occupied, that it will most likely survive if the game goes into extra rounds. It's just a 135 point last ditch effort to break a tie or force a draw if you're losing, or gain a win in Capture & Control. With double psychic communion you can, with some reliability, delay the entrance of an assassin for a while, and a late game appearance from the Callidus is fantastic.


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The culexis is a trickier one to find a use for. Just stalking the battlefield and putting 2 or 3 ap1 shots into outlying squads might be okay, but it really seems to be made for advancing gunlines. It's both a low priority target for an opponent (except in KP games) and it's going to force enemy units to ignore it almost half the time. It just doesn't seem very assassin-y. All of the other assassins have a clear purpose, and are used to do one thing really effectively, the culexis doesn't really do anything effectively except carry a short range ap 1 str 5 gun that will kill maybe 1-2 units a turn, or pop dark eldar vehicles and ork trucks, things that the GK need very little help with. For his point cost, I'd rather have another 5 man strike squad with a psycannon and a hammer.

woodbok wrote:

Noir wrote:

Tech Guard wrote: what i use him as is a support unit for my grey knights, i take 2 to support my units as they move down the field. but you may have a different opinion?

How is that, you can only have 1 of each Assassin type.

You need to read your codex.

Why, to know I'm right.

Noir wrote:

woodbok wrote:

Noir wrote:

Tech Guard wrote: what i use him as is a support unit for my grey knights, i take 2 to support my units as they move down the field. but you may have a different opinion?

How is that, you can only have 1 of each Assassin type.

You need to read your codex.

Why, to know I'm right.

No, Tech Guard.

And you guys call my grammer bad, can't even talk to the person you want to.

Assassins are Unique...hence 1 of each maximum.

I personally don't use them at all, though that's just because I have a preference for Venerable dreadnoughts. That isn't to say Assassins shouldn't be respected though. The Vindicare brings some nasty AP1 shooting to the table and the turbo penetrator is great against vehicles. But (and it's a big but) for every cover save passed against his shooting he has been wasted for a turn...and it's a big waste when you paid 145pts for his sniping ability.

The problem with the Eversor is it's a close combat monster and will probably either never get there, find himself against a dedicated cc unit or your opponent will feed him something sacrificial to chew on so he can be wasted next turn with minimum effort. That's what I would do anyway. If you pay the points for an assault vehicle then you are dedicating, at a minimum 335pts for a single model to get into cc...and it's not even guaranteed it will make it there. I would save your points.

Callidus sucks. D6 S4 hits the turn she arrives isn't that significant, especially against a meched up environment, and her template that wounds against LD is pretty awful. To make it even worse she can't even charge the turn she comes into play so she is stuck out in the open. Again, save the points.

Culexus I'm unsure. Needing to pass a LD check on 3D6 to target him/her is pretty nice, but this particular breed of assassin lacks the punch of all the others. If it had something a bit more potent in it's arsenal I would say this could be a competitive choice, but as it stands I just don't see it.

This is all my humble opinion and your mileage may vary. I'm sure there are some people who use the assassins effectively and I hope they give some advice in this thread.

Well, you can also take a techmarine to bolster a ruin and the assasin can grab a tasty 2+ cover save. But now you are spending 2 of your 3 elite slots on 1-model units. I also don't really understand the point of the callidus's weapon that attacks leadership. Doesn't that make it worse, seeing as you could be hitting on toughness of 3-4 rather than leadership of 7-8? Can someone explain?

loota boy wrote:Well, you can also take a techmarine to bolster a ruin and the assasin can grab a tasty 2+ cover save. But now you are spending 2 of your 3 elite slots on 1-model units. I also don't really understand the point of the callidus's weapon that attacks leadership. Doesn't that make it worse, seeing as you could be hitting on toughness of 3-4 rather than leadership of 7-8? Can someone explain?

Because it attacks brainwaves, Hence neural.

Str 8 Vs Leadership will most commonly need 4's to wound, but sometimes 5s or 6s will be necessary - it's great against leadership 7, i guess.

woodbok wrote:

Noir wrote:

woodbok wrote:

Noir wrote:

Tech Guard wrote: what i use him as is a support unit for my grey knights, i take 2 to support my units as they move down the field. but you may have a different opinion?

How is that, you can only have 1 of each Assassin type.

You need to read your codex.

Why, to know I'm right.

No, Tech Guard.

Ah, got you now. How you posted with the quote made it look like you were taking to me.

Awesome discussion Noir, Woodbok, glad to see you guys staying on topic.


I'll try to keep this on topic myself:

Essentially, the Vindicare and the Callidus assassins offer effective solutions to very common problems, the eversor is a little more difficult to apply specifically, and the culexis is still really a mystery to me that may just be useless.

In a paladin army (draigowing most often) the GK player has to seriously minimize the threat posed by 8+/2- weapons. Each 8/2 or better model on the field has the capacity to remove at least one 55 point unit from the table every turn. The vindicare and the Callidus are the units best suited towards dealing with this issue. This issue can manifest in a few ways -

1. Devastator squads or similar (heavy weapon teams, support batteries, fire dragons, etc...)
2. Multi-wound heavy support models (broadsides, oblits, etc..)
3. Big gun vehicles (vindicators, defilers, etc..)

First, the hellfire rounds - 2+ to wound, ap 1, these shots are the most attractive choice for dealing with single wound models. With a reliable 2+/2+, any handheld lascannon within 36" can be removed from the table. The problem is, this puts the vindicare within lascannon range, and thus at significant risk (unless hiding in a bolstered ruin) Unless you plan on going to ground and losing a round of shooting, gunning for the heavy weapons squad is probably a job for another model. Specifically, the Callidus.

A typical 5 man devastator squad, toting 4 heavy weapons, positioned somewhere in the opponents back ranks, perhaps up on a ridge, with line of sight across the map- that's a problem. The Callidus is a solution. It's going to show up positioned exactly where it should be to maximize its chance of getting cover against the rest of the army, and throw down 1d6 Ap2 hits - wound on half of them, killing, say, 2 models? Then fire it's blaster at the remaining 3 models, killing, what, 1 or 2 more? Then the remaining member/members of the squad standing between the Callidus and the remainder of the army must either move out of the way to deny the callidus a cover save, thus not firing their heavy weapon at him, or ignore the callidus and die the following round from the assault.

The second option, the turbo penetrator, is a little less reliable, only wounding 50% of the time, it's great for killing broadsides without shield generators, and forcing those iffy 5+ saves on oblits. Broadsides and obliterators are worthy targets for the Vindicare, especially if you can position the vindicare in such a way as to limit return fire from squads other than the one he's shooting at, like along the side of a terrain piece. Assuming you wound with your first shot and destroy a broadside or oblit, statistically, you're not going to wound with the next, so in order to win points, you need to survive 2 shooting rounds without going to ground in order to get that third shot/second hit in there. Against monster guns like that, it's not terribly likely. So this course of action, while a valid use for the vindicare, still isn't setting off alarm bells.

The Callidus also comes into play here, but this time as a heat-sink. The arrival of the callidus will place one or two wounds on the multi-wound teqs, potentially doing the same with the template. Those models are forced to deal with the callidus before the next round because of his Instant death close combat weapon; and because those models are so large, the callidus is probably also using them for cover from the rest of the army. This is most likely a suicide mission for the assassin and while it will tie up the offending squad for a round, it will likely not survive to assault them, and thus not make back it's points.

The third option, tank hunting at 36, is the most appealing of the vindicare's uses. With turbopenetrator rounds, the vindicare is rolling 4d6+3 for penetration, making even land-raiders an easy target; and by adding 1 to the vehicle damage result table, you're going to at least stun the vehicle, with a 50% chance of just destroying it outright. Tank hunting is the best way for the vindicare to earn back his points, and have the greatest impact on the game.

The callidus is useless at tank hunting.

The fourth option, run and gun. The vindicare, interestingly, has a pistol that does the exact same thing as the rifle, but at range 12". While I've always thought of it as a defensive option, to be effective while retreating; it's actually kind of a cool offensive choice. Charging the vindicare at a squad that may only contain one power weapon, using the pistol to pick out that model, and then assaulting the squad with an impressive statline might actually keep the vindicare alive better than trying to weather a round of shooting while perched with a rifle. The vindicare, with a healthy number of attacks and a high ws could be winning assaults and getting back out there to run and gun some more. The lack of a power weapon makes this an iffy strategy, but one to be considered.

A potential use for the callidus as well, with hit and run+the c'tan phase sword; the callidus might be able to scurry around the battlefield throwing a few wounds here and there; but deploying the callidus in this case is tricky, especially if the reserve roll comes at an innoportune time.

Other uses for the vindicare - I really only like the hellfire vs. single models and turbo-pen vs. vehicles; everything else carries too high a risk of being innefective for the point costs, so all the talk of shieldbreaking and HQ hunting is nice, but I wouldn't risk wasting the shots. Let me know if I'm wrong.

The Callidus addresses some of the shortfalls of the vindicare; while the vindicare is okay against heavy weapons squads, the callidus shines. Deepstriking with perfect accuracy within close range of a heavy weapons squad, and immediately dropping d6 ap2 hits on the squad is very nice. Heavy weapons squads tend to be small and squishy, and the Callidus is perfect for dealing with them.

The callidus is also FANTASTIC at late game objective contestation. The power to show up turn 4 or 5 and appear on an occupied objective with deadly anti-infantry power, that is a game winner. But using the callidus in this way requires the use of Psychic Communion, preferably two HQs with psychic communion, not an option in Draigo-Librarian lists.

junk wrote:
The fourth option, run and gun. The vindicare, interestingly, has a pistol that does the exact same thing as the rifle, but at range 12". While I've always thought of it as a defensive option, to be effective while retreating; it's actually kind of a cool offensive choice. Charging the vindicare at a squad that may only contain one power weapon, using the pistol to pick out that model, and then assaulting the squad with an impressive statline might actually keep the vindicare alive better than trying to weather a round of shooting while perched with a rifle. The vindicare, with a healthy number of attacks and a high ws could be winning assaults and getting back out there to run and gun some more. The lack of a power weapon makes this an iffy strategy, but one to be considered.

I actually did this exact thing against a half tactical squad with power fist sergeant. They hopped out of their rhino to shoot at him, but didn't manage to kill him. On my turn he reared around and smoked their sergeant before charging the survivors. With his high Ini/WS and number of attacks he managed to kill the remaining marines over only two or three rounds and consolidate safely back into cover!

Callidus assassin thoughts: Exactly as described by someone already. Find that unit of long fangs or another back field target that has a low model count and try to remove as many as possible while still being located in a hard to hit area.

Anavrin wrote:

junk wrote:
The fourth option, run and gun. The vindicare, interestingly, has a pistol that does the exact same thing as the rifle, but at range 12". While I've always thought of it as a defensive option, to be effective while retreating; it's actually kind of a cool offensive choice. Charging the vindicare at a squad that may only contain one power weapon, using the pistol to pick out that model, and then assaulting the squad with an impressive statline might actually keep the vindicare alive better than trying to weather a round of shooting while perched with a rifle. The vindicare, with a healthy number of attacks and a high ws could be winning assaults and getting back out there to run and gun some more. The lack of a power weapon makes this an iffy strategy, but one to be considered.

I actually did this exact thing against a half tactical squad with power fist sergeant. They hopped out of their rhino to shoot at him, but didn't manage to kill him. On my turn he reared around and smoked their sergeant before charging the survivors. With his high Ini/WS and number of attacks he managed to kill the remaining marines over only two or three rounds and consolidate safely back into cover!

While this may sound as a great victory, this is exactly what you shouldnt do with a Vindicare. You just killed a 100 pt unit with a 145 point unit and it took 3 turns to do it. Not something to be proud of. You may also be very lucky that round seeing how pathetic 4+ is in assault, esp against 4 MEQs.

To be back on topic: Assassins are very situational (and when I mean situational, I mean useless). Especially in an already low model count army like GK.

-A Vindicare killing that sgt with the lone power weapon is not a big deal, esp when everything you have destroys most units in assault.
-A Callidus will not survive a shooting phase after popping out with a word in you ear. The Neural blaster is somehow impressive, but it has to be, seeing that you payed the 140 pt price tag. The Ctan Phase Blade? You cant use it if you are dead.
-The culexus is more for kicks, especially in mirror matches, then again, he wont last very long especially when he is on foot and no stealth rule to help him walk the mile.
-Eversor? What can it do that the rest of the codex cannot?

Nuff said.

I have tried on and off to make use of the vindicare and I think the only reason I stick with it is because of the custom model I made for mine. I just really want him to work far beyond what I should ever expect.

The problem simply put, is that he's a giant threat that isn't all that hard to kill. He is too good at the job of blowing stuff up without being able to survive the inevitable return fire.

Either the opponent knows how powerful he is, and takes action to kill him asap, or else learns within a turn what he can do, and takes immediate action to kill him. Either way he gets no more than a single kill before dying in a horrible blaze of return fire.

What's worse is that smart/experienced opponents will know that the best way to kill him is massed small arms fire (like bolters and lasguns) and not the big guns at all. Small arms weapons are useless in the early turns of the game because they are out of range of anything they could damage, except him of course. So you give your opponent a target for weapons that have nothing better to shoot at, and is literally the best target they could possible fire at anyways.

You basically have to ask yourself if destroying a single tank or IC is worth 145 points. Because I have never gotten more than 1 round of shooting out him before he gets turned into a bloody paste.

The eversor assassin is my favorite.

I haven't actually played with any assassins yet, but:
Just because the Vindicare might struggle to get his points back doesn't mean he was a waste. 1 or 2 turns of shooting with him and you (hopefully) get to wipe out that previously mentioned power-fisted sergeant. But how many games have you played where that one 40 or 50 point powerfist takes out 100-200 points of your army? (I once took down a carnifex with a power-fisted IG Junior Officer! Win!)
This is what you have to think of, what will that plasma cannon do to my terminators next turn, or what will that meltagun do to my land-raider? Thusly, I see him as a very useful tool in helping you to dictate the flow of the game in your favour and to act as what is effectively a sacrificial unit. I look forward to using one in the near future =).

Hopefully I explained this concept well enough...

It's not really about getting his points back though. It's more the fact that the Vindicare is a glass cannon. He hits hard but he also dies really easily. Chances are he won't be alive after turn 2.

TyRaide wrote:I haven't actually played with any assassins yet, but:
Just because the Vindicare might struggle to get his points back doesn't mean he was a waste. 1 or 2 turns of shooting with him and you (hopefully) get to wipe out that previously mentioned power-fisted sergeant. But how many games have you played where that one 40 or 50 point powerfist takes out 100-200 points of your army? (I once took down a carnifex with a power-fisted IG Junior Officer! Win!)
This is what you have to think of, what will that plasma cannon do to my terminators next turn, or what will that meltagun do to my land-raider? Thusly, I see him as a very useful tool in helping you to dictate the flow of the game in your favour and to act as what is effectively a sacrificial unit. I look forward to using one in the near future =).

Hopefully I explained this concept well enough...

I agree in principle - it's silly judge the effectiveness of a unit by comparing how many points he cost vs how many points he killed. As you say, a powerfist tactical squad can be a great threat, and a non-powerfist one is no threat at all. And all for the difference of 25 pts.

So how do we determine the effectiveness of the assassins outside of massive playtesting?

I'm fairly comfortable with the vindicare, and often devote one of the GK's precious elite slots to it; as far as the others go, I'm not convinced, when the alternatives are Paladins, Purifiers, and Vendreads, all fantastic choices.