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In my Inquisitor psychic communion list i run a vindicare and he has been absolutely lethal. Played smurfs and he popped a land raider and a speeder thing (can't remember the word), popped mephiston in another game and destroyed a monolith just last night. Granted after which hes been blown to hell but in every mission i've played hes either got his points back or better

Yuber wrote:While this may sound as a great victory, this is exactly what you shouldnt do with a Vindicare. You just killed a 100 pt unit with a 145 point unit and it took 3 turns to do it. Not something to be proud of.

I disagree. 100 points over 3 turns means I only lost one round of shooting, 2 if you count the shooting to kill the sergeant. Counting the shooting he did before and after means he actually made back his points rather easily.

Yuber wrote:You may also be very lucky that round seeing how pathetic 4+ is in assault, esp against 4 MEQs.

Yes and no, 4 tacs will average half a wound per assault phase on a Vindicare after all is said and done. However when the options were between giving or receiving a charge, it's not much of a choice. If I'd backed off for example, they would have gotten more attacks on me in one turn (pistols and the assaulting) than they did over the 3 assault phases the assassin spent fighting them.

Yuber wrote:A Vindicare killing that sgt with the lone power weapon is not a big deal, esp when everything you have destroys most units in assault.

Sure, except that the sgt was in position to make a run at the assassin with a good chance of pasting him, and (admittedly my fault) I had no units close enough to intervene and make the assault on the assassin's behalf.

Yuber wrote:Assassins are very situational (and when I mean situational, I mean useless). Especially in an already low model count army like GK.

Yes they're situational, but so are most units. I personally like the Vindicare as I find the situations he's useful in extremely common, but I wouldn't take any of the others.

I don't think its a matter of "making back points" in this edition. However you do have consider his value; what exactly is he worth in your army?

In all the games I've played with my vindicare, I've been able to fire twice in a row exactly 1 time. He blew up a demolisher on turn 1, and failed to get through the cover save of a vendetta on turn 2. Every game he has killed 1 target before dying. The opponent will instantly realize how dangerous he is after 1 round of shooting, and will take action to kill him.

What I'm really getting at is the question of whether the vindicare is worth the 1 or 2 kills he will manage before dying himself.

I use to love Marbo when I played IG because of his potential. He's capable of destroying almost any target on the turn he drops in, which sounds amazing for a 65 point unit. And then I realized that he had a chance of killing himself with his own bomb, or just miss outright. And then he dies the round after, because the opponent isn't going to let him live that close to their important assets.

IG players have a tough time justifying the 65 points for a one shot unit like Marbo. How is that choice any easier for over double the price when it comes to a vindicare assassin for GK?

I've got the third edition splat book for the assassins (but haven't seen them in the grey knights book) when I looked at that, all I could think about the culexis assassin, is that its pretty powerful against other psykers Not sure if its still that way now, but even then that seems so impractical.

Cypher's Sword wrote:I've got the third edition splat book for the assassins (but haven't seen them in the grey knights book) when I looked at that, all I could think about the culexis assassin, is that its pretty powerful against other psykers Not sure if its still that way now, but even then that seems so impractical.

He's basically the same in that sense, entirely too situational to be of any real use.

Bruteboss wrote:IG players have a tough time justifying the 65 points for a one shot unit like Marbo.

Errr, what ? No, I do not.

On Assassins:

My opinion is that, apart from the Vindicare, the current Assassins are weaker than their previous incarnations.
I point you to the mysterious absence of Infiltrate on the Culexus and Eversor. You have masters of murder whose
only option is to walk across the whole battlefield in order to get to the enemy . Oh, and Callidus lost the iconic
"A Word In Your Ear" for a cheap, weaker imitation of Guardsman Marbo`s trick . D6 S4 AP2 hits? I am impressed ( sarcasm ).

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:In my Inquisitor psychic communion list i run a vindicare and he has been absolutely lethal. Played smurfs and he popped a land raider and a speeder thing (can't remember the word), popped mephiston in another game and destroyed a monolith just last night. Granted after which hes been blown to hell but in every mission i've played hes either got his points back or better

Popped a Monolith? How can he pop a Monolith when you can only ever get one D6 penetrations versus a Monolith...Methinks you best reread the rules...

TrollPie wrote:

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:In my Inquisitor psychic communion list i run a vindicare and he has been absolutely lethal. Played smurfs and he popped a land raider and a speeder thing (can't remember the word), popped mephiston in another game and destroyed a monolith just last night. Granted after which hes been blown to hell but in every mission i've played hes either got his points back or better

Popped a Monolith? How can he pop a Monolith when you can only ever get one D6 penetrations versus a Monolith...Methinks you best reread the rules...

I'm pretty sure that they FAQ'ed it somewhere that the vindicare gets his 4d6 vs. even monoliths, but didn't get the base str3 that is usually givin to sniper weapons. Correct me if i'm wrong though, i didn't hear it straight from the horse's mouth.

loota boy wrote:

TrollPie wrote:

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:In my Inquisitor psychic communion list i run a vindicare and he has been absolutely lethal. Played smurfs and he popped a land raider and a speeder thing (can't remember the word), popped mephiston in another game and destroyed a monolith just last night. Granted after which hes been blown to hell but in every mission i've played hes either got his points back or better

Popped a Monolith? How can he pop a Monolith when you can only ever get one D6 penetrations versus a Monolith...Methinks you best reread the rules...

I'm pretty sure that they FAQ'ed it somewhere that the vindicare gets his 4d6 vs. even monoliths, but didn't get the base str3 that is usually givin to sniper weapons. Correct me if i'm wrong though, i didn't hear it straight from the horse's mouth.

THey have not said anything about, at if they did then it would be pretty bizarre to do the exact opposite of what the rules say i.e. not use base strength but use multiple dice

Alright. So it seems to me that eversor < purifier squad at the same point cost. Both require transports but the purifiers are better in cc and shooting. it doesn't do anything they can't except fleet, but at least the purifiers can be joined by an IC.

The callidus at least has an interesting ability, to show up where it's most needed as long as you can manipulate your reserve rolls. If it survives it's first round in play, it can be an effective unit; but it relies on targeting squads that are as far away as possible from the remainder of the enemy force.

The culexis... Well no one has presented a use for this one yet.

Anyone have any tactics we havent discussed yet?

I'd like to think the Callidus could be effective if it comes out at the right time and the right place. Later in the game it seems like it could be much more survivable, especially if you had your own troops in the vicinity of where it appeared. You could maybe have it soften up a squad before another of your units assaulted. Later in the battle your opponent may also have less forces to direct towards killing your assassin and you might be able to distract his targeting priority at a key moment.

Although I doubt it will ever earn its points in kills, it seems like it could tip the balance where you need it the most in certain situations. I'll probably be taking one just because they are fun (and I already have one painted!)

The vindicare's turbo penetrator round does not characterize itself as 'additional dice'; in its description, it plainly states that its armor penetration is 4d6. These are not 'additional dice' it is simply the armor penetration of the weapon.

Monstrous creatures, melta guns, and similar effects are denoted as being additional or extra dice, therefore are cancelled out by the monolith; not so with the vindicare. Vindicares pop monoliths.

junk wrote:The vindicare's turbo penetrator round does not characterize itself as 'additional dice'; in its description, it plainly states that its armor penetration is 4d6. These are not 'additional dice' it is simply the armor penetration of the weapon.

Monstrous creatures, melta guns, and similar effects are denoted as being additional or extra dice, therefore are cancelled out by the monolith; not so with the vindicare. Vindicares pop monoliths.

Yeah, what he said.

I just started playing GK, one tactic i considered, and correct me if i am wrong, but i gerally run a GM. I will assign the scout ability to outflank to an EVERSOR, this could make his ability to get into H2H much easier.

The problem with the other 3 is they are very situational. The Vindicare can affect the battle by denuding squads of their PF sergeant or their heavy weapon starting on turn 1. It has the ability to take down a vehicle if needs be so it is not totally nerfed in a meched up environment.

Mtnoyser,

Great point, with a 66% chance of showing up where you need it to, and fleeting its way into assault, It's not a bad move - but at 130 points, would you rather have the eversor bursting off the board edge or a squad of purifiers?

My issues with the assassins -
1. They take up a PRECIOUS elite slot - Vendreads, Purifiers, Paladins, Techmarines... all fantastic units that serve as more than just a 'good choice' for a GK army, but a solid backbone.

Considering that the mainstay troop choices are the GKSS and GKTs - unless you're paying the 150 point Crowe Tax to run MSU purifiers, or the exorbitant Draigo tax to run paladins as troops (despite the fact that he can make them scoring units anyway) - you're left with a handful of elite slots that essentially determine the effectiveness of your entire list.

The Vindicare, in my opinion, earns the slot, especially in a paladin list, where protecting your big point squads from LasCannons, Vindicators, and Multimeltas is vital.

The Callidus is an afterthought; a failsafe in a list that has trouble with longfangs, devastator squads, lootas, or similar big gun slinging infantry - or in a list with limited mobility that may have trouble with late game objective contestation.

The eversor - for 130, in an elite slot... I don't know - With Grand Strategy, outflanking, might be worth a shot as a surprise, but I don't know if it's competitive.

Lets open the floor to that - Anyone else try outflanking an eversor? It is a brutal CC unit capable of taking on entire squads with a very small footprint.

Culexus Assassin...

Psyocculum: BS 10 vs. any psyker or a unit with a psyker in it...
Etherium: 3D6 Leadership test for any unit shooting him...
Animus Speculum: Assault 2+ # of Psykers (friendly or foe) within 12 inches...

What i was thinking was putting him in a unit of;
6 Psykers (for STR 10 AP 1 Large Blasts) and allows Animus Speculum to have Assualt 8...
5 Jokearo Weaponsmiths (for 5 Lascannon shots per turn) and has the possibility of rending, and/or increasing maximum range in unit...

I was hoping first to try this on my Tyranid friend... I would stuff them in a Chimera, fire off Lascannons at 48" range with BS 10 at a few annoying models, like the Hive Tyrant, Doom of Malan'tai, Tervigon, Swarm Lord, or any other annoying, but typical nasties he fields... BS 10 means re-rolls with hits on a 2+ both times... and it's AP 2, so not much can be done to stop it...
OR I could decimate his broodlord and/or a large number of genestealers at 38" range with my Psychic Barrage, and the most it could scatter is 2" thanx to BS 10...

and if he tries to swarm me i have the STR 5 AP 1 Assualt 8 shooting attacks along with my Psychic Barrage and Lascannon or Heavy Flamer attacks...

everyone says he's a Psyker killer, and it's true... but he cant get close enough... so use his abilities with a squad that can hit from afar...

I'm trying to work this with other races aswell, since I'm not too bothered with Tyranids anyway...

P.S. I'm still new so i tend to miss certain things, so as a back-up there's always the Inquisitor with Psyocculum and Null Rod... I heard from a friend that my idea may not work but he wouldn't explain why... If so, then Culexus remains useless...

The Culexus doesn't become assault 8. The unit of psykers counts as a single psyker...so assault 3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not to mention the fact that the Culexus can't join units.

they are only counted as 'one' Psyker for the purpose of Psychic Tests...

alright, i see it now... I was confused about the 'character' and 'independent character' rulings...

"for the purposes of psychic tests, etc..."

If you are unsure of something I find it best to take the less favourable option.

I've always taken it to mean that the culexis only gains the +1 for each unit of psykers with brotherhood of psykers; also you can't get the improved range from the jokearos with that many in the squad; and he can't join a unit of jokearos.

Now I thought the faq addressed the culexis/brotherhood question, but that was that fake faq that predated the actual faq by a couple weeks. The wording on brotherhood is pretty clear, it says they count as a single psyker.

Best you could probably do is walk him out in front of a chimera with a psychic inquisitor, a psyker and a mystic inside, maybe flank him with a couple of 1 man paladin squads or some nonsense like that, but why?

There's one answer I can think of. The Culexis is awesome against grey knights.

My experience with the assassins: Let me preface that by saying it has been without using things like grey knights.

Callidus - the whisper can be effective in setting up an alpha strike on an opponent. They try to deny LOS lo and behold they are forced to idiotically be out in plain view. When supported or used in conjunction with other back line offensive things. (Wolf scouts comes to mind) They proved useful.

Eversor - cool fig but never effective. One HTH beast just gets overwhelmed or shot down before it does anything. I would almost rather drop 3 or 4 of these as a one-time shot and then they disappear rather than have 1 of them show up for an entire game. This one needs reworking.

Cullexus - Anti-psycher but both you and them. I always wanted to get a cullexus in range of a seer council just to watch my opponent's jaw drop with all the S5 AP1 wonder. The problem is delivering it. Sorry loses on being very situational.

Vindicare - Enough flexibility to be useful. I would appreciate it against opponents where their units are delivery systems. (Exarchs from eldar, Marine tacs with one PF sergent or one heavy weapon, orc boyz mobz with one PK nob.) My concern is it is a lot of points so I would have to think long and hard before just taking 6 or so GK with S5 stormbolters with PW.

Question!
How would one deal with using a Draigo Wing against dark eldar Raider spam Disitigrator Cannon S5 Ap2 And Dark Lance S8 Ap2? I prefer assassins sooooo thought this would be good thread.

It's not really relevant to the thread...If you want advice on how to use Paladins you can create your own thread.

DAaddict wrote:

Cullexus - Anti-psycher but both you and them. I always wanted to get a cullexus in range of a seer council just to watch my opponent's jaw drop with all the S5 AP1 wonder. The problem is delivering it. Sorry loses on being very situational.

I've done this. sounds great culexus gets 8 - 10 ap 1 shots, awesome right? not when the seer council has 4+ invul saves with rerolls from casting fortune.

habsfan7973 wrote:

DAaddict wrote:

Cullexus - Anti-psycher but both you and them. I always wanted to get a cullexus in range of a seer council just to watch my opponent's jaw drop with all the S5 AP1 wonder. The problem is delivering it. Sorry loses on being very situational.

I've done this. sounds great culexus gets 8 - 10 ap 1 shots, awesome right? not when the seer council has 4+ invul saves with rerolls from casting fortune.

My other thought was when they were available as allies to plant them next to a chimera loaded full of a psyker platoon. 11 shots that you just uncover and obliterate a bunch of marines.

BTW, as far as cullexus and grey knights all being psykers does that mean having one in range of a squad of 10 grey knights mean he is getting 11 shots? Also does that mean they have to pass a morale test at Ld 7?

DAaddict wrote:

habsfan7973 wrote:

DAaddict wrote:

Cullexus - Anti-psycher but both you and them. I always wanted to get a cullexus in range of a seer council just to watch my opponent's jaw drop with all the S5 AP1 wonder. The problem is delivering it. Sorry loses on being very situational.

I've done this. sounds great culexus gets 8 - 10 ap 1 shots, awesome right? not when the seer council has 4+ invul saves with rerolls from casting fortune.

My other thought was when they were available as allies to plant them next to a chimera loaded full of a psyker platoon. 11 shots that you just uncover and obliterate a bunch of marines.

BTW, as far as cullexus and grey knights all being psykers does that mean having one in range of a squad of 10 grey knights mean he is getting 11 shots? Also does that mean they have to pass a morale test at Ld 7?

No, they only get one shot per justicare, because that'd where the psychic energy is channeled.