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I dont know what it is about organs, I just cant bring myself to use them even as fluff. Anyone have any ideas that could replace them?

I mean hey imperial guard, melee not crazy. Power weap. Blobs can do well yatta yatta. But even for fluff sake the storm troopers can fall short, although i still use em . One idea that came from another post way backwas some sort of samurai based unit. I thought this would be pretty cool:

We have an emperor so why not normal troops dressed in either tradional robes or new age samurai armor with two handed swords that give +1 str. And Init. For a total of 4 and perhaps rending to represent a well placed thrust. And a 5+ invulnerable In closecombat? From the speed and length of their blades which would also make up for their lack of T

No where near any other melee units but would be fun actually posing a threat.

Kamikaze elites that will die by the sword for their emperor like their ancestors from the past.

Meh something like that lol

Are you talking about Ogryns?

Anyways, Guard don't have dedicated melee units outside of Ogryns and a few other abhumans. This isn't really necessary to have sword wielding guardsmen. It adds nothing overall, and unless done properly just comes across as silly.

Necessary no, cool.. yes. Are ogryns really necessary . Not really. I just don't have much notion to use any of our elites. And something being able to pose some kind of threat as a counter charge or whatever would be cool

Honestly?

Use veterans. Give them all shotguns, with two flamers, a heavy flamer, and carapace. Give the sarge a power fist and shotgun.

There's your Guard assault unit. It does most of its damage in shooting, but when you kill so many in shooting you can wear down the rest through attrition in the assault.

^^ we are talking about elite choices missy lol

Yeah. And the Guard Elite choices pretty much suck, even in terms of flavor.

True, but I honestly can't think of anything appropriate for an elites choice, outside of maybe a loading sentinel armed with basically a chainfist.

Melissia wrote:True, but I honestly can't think of anything appropriate for an elites choice, outside of maybe a loading sentinel armed with basically a chainfist.

Sweeeeeet lol keep the ideas comin

Really, the only thing appropriate for an Elites choice should be the Stormtroopers--but they're overcosted and they don't perform the "Storm" role very well.

Kanluwen wrote:Really, the only thing appropriate for an Elites choice should be the Stormtroopers--but they're overcosted and they don't perform the "Storm" role very well.

Keep their point cost the same just make their guns str.4 and bam lets do this thang meqs lol

The strength isn't the issue. It's the role of the unit, period, that is the issue.

I dunno a rapid fire weapon thts +3 to hit 4+ to wound ap 3 on marines. It'll make em go wee wee in their armor. Kill points or just good fluff . Miniature 5 man 85 basic pt. Deep strike squads would make big threats no?

USE CONSCRIPTS!!!! They cost so little, its like they're paying you to take them. Sure, they only have WS 2, but who cares when 2 units of 30 (legal?) are coming at you from all around the board.
They may be the weakest unit in the game, but who cares! More meat for the meat grinder!

Look at you feeling sorry for yourself. I play tau. Farsight. No kroot. No nothing.

Lol its a topic about elite choicesin general / perhaps a new melee focused unit. Not the whole army list

Umm.. Fluffwise where would a melee-centered unit fit in any IG army? They're a siege army that focuses on grinding opponents down with numbers. Ogryns do their dirty work because they're exceptionally big and strong. Like space marines. Who also, coincidentally, have dedicated CC units.

Humans can't be great CC units. The second we start devising plans for a Striking Scorpion or a Howling Banshee that is as human as envy we're going to need a field of red flags (all of them waving) to get us back on course.

Eldar have exceptional reflexes/agility. Space Marines have brute strength, along with orks. Tau have kroot. IG have Ogryns.

Just because you don't like them as fluff doesn't mean they're not a valid option.

Rico..

True but what i was looking at comes from the penal legion knife fighters which are rending and +1 cc atk . So what i was liokin at would be perhaps remove that from penal legion let the player choose between the first two options and pretty muchturn the rending into a slightly better elite choice with cool fluff

Ogryn as a valid option as they currently stand? Thanks, I needed the solid laugh.

As it stands, Ogryn are one of the few choices in the IG codex that would make absolute sense to actually make good in close combat besides Rough Riders. With the last codex release, GW had a solid opportunity to actually make both these units not only fun to play with, but viable. Instead they decided to once again hit them with the uselessness hammer.

For starters, their stats make absolutely no sense. Ogryn want very badly to be good in h2h combat with their Assault 3 weapons, WS4 , T5, and 3A base. However, their lack of any Initiative period (I2) means that only a power fist equipped model will strike after these guys.

The common counter argument here, is that with T5 and W3, these guys are big and scary. I would usually agree...however with a 5+ save in a bolt weapon dominated game that means that any MEQ armies side arm is going to completely bypass these guys armor. And as for close combat, the sheer volume of power weapons in armies now means that those W3's won't really matter much at all.. not that they did anyway with the 5+ once again.


My solution:

Cut the base point cost in half. (20 pts per model instead of the lolcurrent 40 pts)
Give the Bone 'ead the ability to get a cheap power fist/weapon so these guys actually have some teeth
Up the Int by 1

eh, im with Rico on this one...this is defintly gonna prove a challenge if we are to put a "dedicated" CC unit. i mean, we do already have a couple units that are dedicated allreadyish, Ogryns and Rough Riders being top of the list but some others that you would think be able to become CC dedicated (At least 2nd rate CC'ers which is appropiate for guard to be honest) are the Storm Troopers, Vetrans, Penal Legion, and Special Weapon Squads(up close and personal!) but trying to make a dedicated CC squad instead of altering old ones to suit your needs...hmm, quite a challenge indeed...

you know, back in 4th Ed' of Da' guard there used to be an old doctrine where if you took it, all your troops replaced their main weapons with las pistols and CC weapons( although adding 5pts per squad seemed like such a silly price to trade your rifle for a pistol back then imo)



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oh and @ jp400: not to rain on your parade, but there's an ogryn thread already active. now i dont want to seem controling or nothing but it seems like a good idea to keep all the ogryn related allterations located on one thread for easy access. this thread seems more about trying to make a completely new CC unit that isnt abhuman. sorta like, gladiators or somthing

Yea its just more about our lacking elite department, and the whole backbone of the Imperial g. Is the human troops. Never took a liking to our abhumans nor their in effectiveness or fluff for that matter. So I tried thinking of a cool unit that could either just be added or a replacement to the ogryns. Mostly for fluff as we know the str. Of the ig lies in every other section except elites.. save the crazy marbo of doom

Heavy Flamer in a vet squad? That's hilarious

I think the most likely option would be something like Henchmen from the Grey Knights codex. Crusaders and/or Death Cultists are both fairly human and interesting in CC. Of course, giving the imperial guard access to henchmen would be overpowered, but perhaps a limited version?

For example, based on Veterans:

Imperial Navy Marine Squad
(Veteran Statline, WS4 perhaps?)

Equipment:
Carapace Armor
Shotgun or Laspistol + CC Weapon or Storm Shield + CC Weapon

Most Vet Options, but only 2 special weapons and no heavy weapon teams.
Demolition Doctrine as an option

@irdiumstetn : very cool. Imperial marines used to spaceship boading and getting In close. Yup I like it

I'd like to see some sort of feral guardsmen units - as normal guardsmen, but WS4, pistol+ccw (no lasgun) and furious charge, with very limited shooting upgrades. Maybe BS2. I think 5 points each would still be fair, given an ork boy is 6 and vastly better.

I'm sure folding that sort of unit into the current troops structure (platoons+combined squads+commissars+orders) would be quite hard to balance though.

Elite section topic not troops :p

Rico wrote:Umm.. Fluffwise where would a melee-centered unit fit in any IG army?

Feral/Feudal worlders.

larose14 wrote:Elite section topic not troops :p

The important thing here is finding a plausible unit first. If someone has a great idea for something but it's for a troops options, small tweaks can be made from there.

It's not like the units thought up are mutually exclusive. Maybe a commander can make these elites troops or something. Some gung-ho guy that's considerably less bionic but equally badass as Straken.

Rico..

How about an ecclesiarchy detachment, a Priest or Confessor and a squad of Crusaders?

*cough cough* welllll we could always call up the Jr. Commisars and see if they would like to play...

Melissia wrote:How about an ecclesiarchy detachment, a Priest or Confessor and a squad of Crusaders?

Perhaps a high priest/high confessor for a potential HQ unit.

6-12 Crusaders (sarge included)
4/3/4/4/1/4/2/8/5+
4/3/4/4/1/4/1/9/5+

Laspistol + CCW for all

Eviscerator for Priest/Confessor: 15 pts
Inferno Pistol (I forget what its stats are?) for Priest/Confessor: 5 pts
Melta bombs for Priest/Confessor: 5 pts
2 Special weapons: Flamer 5 pts, melta 10 pts
1 Demo charge: 20 pts

How's that for starters? Maybe they could have access to some GK weapons on a limited scale... The units also need points but that's not really my strong point.

Rico..

Crusaders are Power Sword + Storm Shield.

@rico crusaders are very cool, as long as we arent raining too much on the inquisition's parade, dif. Name perhaps? Potential hq char. Could be a non slot choice specifically for this elite unit? Kinda like priests?
Ps. Secretly always wanted to use some inquisition like they are allowed to use ig