Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm sure all of us here know the lasgun. The most common weapon in the imperium, it's carried by most guardsmen and it's favored even by the most eperienced veterans. It fires beams of red las in semi-auto or full-auto. It's accurate, light, cheap, easily manufactured and it has the great bennefit of it's power cells being capable of charging with sunlight.

Even so, it hasn't been treate with the respect such a powerful weapon deserves. People have reffered to them as "flashlights" and considere using themm as laser-rights for bolters of more powerful weapons. However, I'd like you to compare it with another weapon from the Imperial arsenal that even we are quite familiar with: the shotgun. They both have a very similar profile, except fpr the longer range of the former and the assault capability of the later.

Now, basing on pictures and assumptions, I cantell that the weapon some veterans ue are quite similar with our day's assault shotguns. Have you seen tho guns? Have you seen what they can do? I will show you.

WARNING: DISTURBING IMAGES: - Removed by insaniak. Completely unnecessary and not appropriate to the forum.

I hope that was a good example of the power that a shotgun holds. Now, that's a 12 gauge shotgun. Imagine all that power, condensed into a single beam of las. As an ork would say: "Dead killy." Suddenly, they don't look like flashlights at all, do they?

I'm not clicking that since while it could be a joke, I really don't need to see shotgun wounds. I'm pretty sure we all know that a shotgun will turn you to hamburger.

Lasguns are equivalent power to autoguns, which are basically modern assault rifles. The only reason they're considered a joke of a weapon is because in 40k everything is so ludicrous that conventional firearms must seem like toys comparatively.

Actually, most of the weapons the Guard uses are quite similar to our modern military. In fact, several countries have bombs that would make a Deathstrike look like a water baloon or tanks that would put a LRBT to shame. And no, the images aren't a joke, but they're not hamburger-like either. They were al taken from medical sites.

Those images are just wrong. Even with a warning those pictures do not belong on a "family forum".

Well yeah, the LRBT and most other Warhammer tanks are horribly designed since their flat sides won't deflect any kind of fire. It's just the WWI/WWII aesthetic GW likes to roll with. And of course several countries have bombs that would make a Deathstrike look like a water balloon - it's not a nuke or anything.

Drawing parallels to 40k tabletop and the real world is strained at best, laughable at worst. It just doesn't translate.

Those really aren't images that are appropriate for this forum, or even to the point you are trying to make. I have seen enough of this and much worse to fill my nightmares for a lifetime, don't particularly need it encroaching my game time as well. Please take those down.

-cgmckenzie

Shotguns are str. 4 and lasguns are str 3.
also... i think that GW tends to model more towards WW1 than later wars with respect to the Landraider and the sponsons on most tanks in their system. also... rhino are clearly M113. I think GW just borrows whatever rather than focus on any one era.

My gut reaction to something as horrifying as those pictures, is to get something to eat.

If I remember, a lasgun shot to an unarmored limb will mangle it or just blow it clean off. They're rather piddly stat-wise, but fluff-wise, I'd like the twenty thousand flashlights pointed away from me.

Mod: I have deleted the IMG tags as such images are inappropriate for the foum.

If you want to look at shotgun wounds you will have to follow the links.

Thank you KK....

Now, the reason that Lasgun is weak is because all other weapons are very much OVERPOWERED.
In terms of our primitive weapons who can't take down a carboard on 200m ( see Future weapons M-16 testing ), 1 Las shot on high setting can easily go trough 2m of solid concrete.

And not to mention the bolter who has a f***ing mini boost and who explode into bits when entering the body. And Tau have freaking plasma rifles as standard equipment ( not as powerful as real plasma but powerful enough )...

As said earlier, lasguns are the target of jokes because they are ridiculously underpowered against a big Tyranid, for example. Shotguns are better weapons against hordes of small creatures, up close.

If a modern day soldier and a single guardsman would fight, the guardsman would emerge victorious. Bullets would just bounce off his flak armor and when he would fire his lasgun, half of the soldier's head would disappear, even with a helmet on his head.

sennacherib wrote:Shotguns are str. 4 and lasguns are str 3.
also... i think that GW tends to model more towards WW1 than later wars with respect to the Landraider and the sponsons on most tanks in their system. also... rhino are clearly M113. I think GW just borrows whatever rather than focus on any one era.

Space Marine shotguns are S4, Guard shotguns are S3.

I've heard that a powerful laser to the head makes your brain pop.
That's hearsay though, unless all that soggyness in the head makes the laser try to burn it away to get out the other side.

If a laser can burn through concrete, it'd have no problems with flesh or gory bits.

Ultrafool wrote:Those images are just wrong. Even with a warning those pictures do not belong on a "family forum".

I agree. WTF does that have to do with this forum? You can get your point across with words rather then saying, hey click on pictures of suicide victims

Brother SRM wrote:Well yeah, the LRBT and most other Warhammer tanks are horribly designed since their flat sides won't deflect any kind of fire.

Technically, that's not actually a problem. Sloped sides aren't really all that helpful against certain kinds of anti-tank attack, only against raw kinetic force from another tank's shell.

For example, sloped armor is actually WORSE off against an RPG fired from a second story window than normal boxy armor with ninety degree angles.

cgmckenzie wrote:Those really aren't images that are appropriate for this forum, or even to the point you are trying to make. I have seen enough of this and much worse to fill my nightmares for a lifetime, don't particularly need it encroaching my game time as well. Please take those down.

-cgmckenzie

Meh, don't click on them then.

Also, I agree with the idea that you can't compare Modern Day to 40K. Mainly because fantasy and reality don't blend well in dry comparisons. As for simply Lasgun to modern day comparisons, I'd say its about a .308

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

cgmckenzie wrote:Those really aren't images that are appropriate for this forum, or even to the point you are trying to make. I have seen enough of this and much worse to fill my nightmares for a lifetime, don't particularly need it encroaching my game time as well. Please take those down.

-cgmckenzie

Meh, don't click on them then.

Also, I agree with the idea that you can't compare Modern Day to 40K. Mainly because fantasy and reality don't blend well in dry comparisons. As for simply Lasgun to modern day comparisons, I'd say its about a .308

Honestly i'd personally say thats a bit of a stretch, as Lasguns are well known for their lack of penetrating power (it takes advanced armor [eg. Above type III] to stop a .308).

IMHO 5.56 would be closest.

Melissia wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:Well yeah, the LRBT and most other Warhammer tanks are horribly designed since their flat sides won't deflect any kind of fire.

Technically, that's not actually a problem. Sloped sides aren't really all that helpful against certain kinds of anti-tank attack, only against raw kinetic force from another tank's shell.

For example, sloped armor is actually WORSE off against an RPG fired from a second story window than normal boxy armor with ninety degree angles.

Well because at that point it's not sloped against the angle of attack. However for attacks occurring at roughly the same elevation, the sloping will always be useful, not only for deflection but because of the increased effective armor thickness.

About the only time sloping won't really help is when you're attempting to disable the tank without penetrating the armor, such as flamethrower attacks (actually rather effective in killing crew and engines) or high explosives that don't necessarily penetrate the armor but through the shock may kill the crew or smash mechanical devices.

Let's be honest, few of the vehicles in 40k exhibit intelligent combat vehicle design, and the Leman Russ is certainly no exception.

Lasguns are like a lot of the other stuff in 40K. They ignore physical laws in order to work.

It's science fantasy.

A Lasgun wound would look nothing like a shotgun wound. Why did you link the images when they have no similarities?

From how I see it, lasguns are terribly effective. They are only jokingly referred to as "flashlights" because they are somewhat weakish in direct comparison to the other terrible weapons of the 41st millennium, most of which are employed by forces trading the Guard's numerical advantage for superior technology (bolters, pulse rifles, etc) and/or a massive boost to survivability (xeno hides).

GW fluff described Marine power armour as reducing the chance for injury by 50-85% against "most small arms", which I take as referring to or at least including lasguns. This is pretty compatible with the TT rules, actually.

The image of the sturdy lasgun is just treated very "stepmotherly" as a result of various sources (predominantly the licensed non-GW stuff like novels) slightly twisting the setting to appeal to their readers - unless said source features the Guard, so go figure.

PS: I also think lasgun blasts are actually blue. From the description of their sci-fi physics, the shots have a few somewhat lightning'ish attributes in that they produce sound and explode on impact. The Final Liberation computer game also had IG lasguns and multilasers firing blue. The only time I've seen red lasguns was the Dawn of War series. FFG's RPG depicts them as blue again.
The aforementioned titles are all non-GW products so may not mean much, but if the "lasguns = red" idea comes solely from DoW, ...

Being in the military things that I have come across in 40k don't make much sense. Especially the Leman Russ. It annoys me that it is WW2ish but hey what ya can ya do?

But I think in the books I've read with IG they lasgun blows. A lot of trauma is caused by the bullet bouncing around and/or exiting. The lasgun doesn't have a "bullet" so it can't bounce around. I'm not sure about exiting but it's going to seal up any major bleeding because its burn anything it touches.


And besides if everyone had bolters what would the Space Marines signature weapon be?

Newer Imperial Lasguns fire blue, older ones fire red or orange shots-at least based off of the Gaunts Ghosts novels.

Anyhow, in Games Workshops roleplaying games lasguns are quite capable of killing their target's outright with just one burst, you just can't have a model that costs 6pts having a weapon that can do that with every shot (they can do that in regular games though, the enemy just take less armour saves)...lest you upgrade all the game's weaponary and make bolters capable of instant killing anything with T3 (....which they also already do as they ignore the armour of almost everything in the guard codex). ...So yeah...Lasguns are pretty good at representing what they do actually. =/

Kilkrazy wrote:Lasguns are like a lot of the other stuff in 40K. They ignore physical laws in order to work.

It's science fantasy.

Not necessarily. It depends on your interpretation of the science behind it.

For example, it certainly would violate the laws of physics if it launched a bolt of slow light like in star wars. But I don't think it does. And I also disagree with the idea that it cauterizes wounds-- it should actually flash-boil blood and cause devastating wounds, similar to hydrostatic shock on a kinetic round.

Lasguns arn't piddly in the fluff, they are just piddly in the game because they arn't that great against marines(which most people run)

against Orks they arn't that bad. every wound will drop an ork most of the time(c'mon 6s )

Lasguns are able to drop marines in the fluff, but that requires them to be set on Maximum power(which is what Ap3 Hotshots represent) but many lasguns don't have a power slider because they want the guardsmen to conserve ammunition. The Munitorum Manuel states that there are literally thousands of different lasgun variations so any supposed inconsistancies can be explained away.

that and the In-game stats had to be balaced.

you want everyone to be able to fire Ap3 lasguns? ok, but Marines are going up to T5 and will all have 3 wounds.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:Lasguns arn't piddly in the fluff, they are just piddly in the game because they arn't that great against marines(which most people run)

against Orks they arn't that bad. every wound will drop an ork most of the time(c'mon 6s )

Lasguns are able to drop marines in the fluff, but that requires them to be set on Maximum power(which is what Ap3 Hotshots represent) but many lasguns don't have a power slider because they want the guardsmen to conserve ammunition. The Munitorum Manuel states that there are literally thousands of different lasgun variations so any supposed inconsistancies can be explained away.

that and the In-game stats had to be balaced.

you want everyone to be able to fire Ap3 lasguns? ok, but Marines are going up to T5 and will all have 3 wounds.

Hmm okay, this makes some sense. IG LGs have power settings to increase of decrease their AP. So in theory these weapons are far superior to bolters then?

As far as logistics go, yes. but bolters still cause more grievous wounds and have the ability to utilize specialist ammunition. Boltguns are also capable of being silenced, lasguns aren't.

Melissia wrote:For example, it certainly would violate the laws of physics if it launched a bolt of slow light like in star wars.

Mhmm, Star Wars blasters are plasma guns, not lasers, at least according to their canon description. SW tech actually makes far more sense than meets the eye at first glance. Same with lightsabers.
It's still sci-fi wishy washy, but it doesn't sound as stupid as many people seem to think.

Grey Templar wrote:Lasguns are able to drop marines in the fluff, but that requires them to be set on Maximum power

Not really, maximum power just increases the likelyhood of injury beyond standard. I suppose the less energy a shot has, the more you'd have to rely on luck to hit a weaker spot of the armour. In-game stats are a perfect representation. Actually, from how it sounds like, the fluff was pretty much written in a way to more or less represent the in-game stats (notice how the "one in six shots" of a lasgun you'd need to have a chance at dropping a Marine is ~16%, fitting perfectly to GW's fluff of power armour providing up to 85% of protection against injury by small arms - the remaining 15% meaning threat by lasgun fire).

BeefCakeSoup wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:Lasguns arn't piddly in the fluff, they are just piddly in the game because they arn't that great against marines(which most people run)

against Orks they arn't that bad. every wound will drop an ork most of the time(c'mon 6s )

Lasguns are able to drop marines in the fluff, but that requires them to be set on Maximum power(which is what Ap3 Hotshots represent) but many lasguns don't have a power slider because they want the guardsmen to conserve ammunition. The Munitorum Manuel states that there are literally thousands of different lasgun variations so any supposed inconsistancies can be explained away.

that and the In-game stats had to be balaced.

you want everyone to be able to fire Ap3 lasguns? ok, but Marines are going up to T5 and will all have 3 wounds.

Hmm okay, this makes some sense. IG LGs have power settings to increase of decrease their AP. So in theory these weapons are far superior to bolters then?

Not really, firing on maximum power without using specilized powerpacks can cause damage to the weapon(Lasguns can explode with deadly force) and decreses the life of the power pack.

Hotshot Lasguns and power packs are specialy designed to fire on maximum settings.


Bolters are still more powerful weapons. the lasgun is superior in its cheapness to manufacture and the logisical savings by not having any ammo to ship around.

I you want to know how strong str 3 is fluffwise, look at grot blastas; they are over one foot in lenght and bigger than a marines helmet. Im talking of these pistol-things....

So yeah, s3 IS quite a lot.