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I'm currently in the process of putting together a Draigowing army and I've seen multiple variations. Some run Draigo and a Libby, some run a Libby and Coteaz for Henchmen to make up the troop choices. Some lists deliver the paladins via Land Raider, some use Storm Ravens, others use the Grand Strategy to outflank the paladins into battle. The question is which is the most effective? Which provides the most bang for the buck?

Very good question. Not having played Draigowing yet, I am still in theory-only mode. I am leaning towards outflanking, as that allows for more bodies on the field, whereas a raven or land raider eats up a lot of points.

PS - Paladins with henchman spam may be good, but I wouldn't call that a Draigowing.

One of the best Draigowing Armies I have seen consisted of the following

Draigo

Libby

Techmarine

Techmarine

Paladin Squad 5 guys

Paladin Squad 5 guys

GK Strike Squad 5 guys Rhino

GK Strike Squad 5 guys Rhino

Stormraven

3 Dreadknights

I was also leaning towards outflanking as well but that can lead to problwms with anti armor and anti infantry. Running Storm Ravens/Land Raiders use up a lot of points and only offer a few targets for your opponent to fire all their anti armor at.

While the use of Henchmen may not classify it as Draigowing I do think it deserved a place in the topic as the idea is to use a few units of Henchmen in chimeras with units of paladins who then hijack the chimeras for cheap transportation. Just another way of looking at the issue of "how do I make paladins work as a competitive force, without running low on models and anti tank/infantry"

My understanding of 'Draigowing' as a term is that it's akin to 'Deathwing'. In the latter, it's terminators only as troops, so I think in the former, to be 'pure' it should be oinly paladins as troops. There's no hard and fast 'rule' about this of course but I tend to think those that mix in other troop choices are not playing to the strength of a Draigowing (minimal KPs and tough units) and yet do not provide enough models or troop units of offset its weakness, which is low numbers of troops.

So Draigowing at its best is run with Draigo, a Libby, and 6 5 man paladin units that arrive VIA deepstrike/outflank? I think the thing that traditional 'Deathwing' has over this is the ability to deepstrike first turn. Granted Mordrak can do this as well and if you stick a Libby with a teleport homer to the unit your Terminators can come in with less chance of scatter. Though Mordrak is very well liked because he can't make paladins a troop choice and doesn't have some of the stats and equipment Draigo brings to the table.

I wouldn't deep strike. I'd use a 'raven or raider (probably crusader) to insert some squad(s) and GS to Outflank another/others (depending on build).

I really don't think an all paladin force wants to arrive before turn two under (almost) any circumstances.

2-3 paladin units, Draigo, Librarian with suppoort from 'raven(s), crusader, assassin(?) and /or venerable dreadnoughts would be my preferred list. Draigo, a 'raven and the rest all paladin squads might work well too.

Something like

Draigo
Libby
Staff
Teleport Homer
Quicksilver, might, shrouding, sanctuary

6 paladins(Draigo/Libby's unit)
2 psycannon, hammer, banner, 2 halberds, sword, staff

5 paladin
(Same as above only no banner)

5 paladin
(Same as above only no banner)

Land Raider Crusader
MM

2x Storm Raven
MM
TL AC

With this I have about 245pts left to spend. Basic strategy is to reserve everything, give x units scout and use this to outflank and blow stuff up. This set up it could be better to have the 2 5 man squads as 1 unit so I can give it Psybolt ammo and I'd I choose it for grand strategy I can combat squad out once it hits the board. Also at 2500pts wouldn't an Apothacary be a good investment for Draigo's unit?

That seems reasonable. But I'd make it one 10 man squuad and combat squad them (that way they'll always be able to Outflank, though one squad will lack a stave).

I make your list above 2260 pts. I'd not worry about the teleport homer and maybe go all 'ravens, dropping the six man squad down to 5 (total saving 130 pts), leaving 370, which could buy a couple of venerable dreadnoughts if you could save 20 points somewhere (maybe the other stave...) to make a 2500 list offering only 10KPs and with plenty of options around Grand Strategy and whether you bring everyone on in the 'ravens or not.

I don't run a pure Draigowing, but I do only use Paladins as my troop choices.

As far as Paladins go, definitely use ten man squads to combat squad, to save points on Psybolt ammo, unless you're set on a stave in each 5 man squad.

I have found that depending on who goes first, starting everything on the table is not a bad idea. Because of the ridiculous power of Psycannons, I can maim or destroy one unit per Paladin unit. If I can't get in range and am facing overwhelming firepower, deepstriking is good enough for me.

I also run a Xenos Inq with Psycho/rad grenades and a 7-man squad of purifiers (2 Incinerators cause of pts) in a Stormraven, usually accompanied by Draigo. This gives Draigo a fearless bodyguard, and an anti-horde unit. The Stormraven also allows them to get where they need to quicker, and gives me a multi-melta/lascannon for AV 14.

The purifiers are my assassination unit. They go kill what needs to be killed, that is dangerous to my paladins. They don't usually live, but the paladins do. And the Paladins are the real game winners.

Lastly, I use three Reg Dreads with 2 TLACs, because I need the anti-tank. I would rather shoot at dudes than tanks with my Paladins. This is all at 2500.

I have yet to be in a situation where the Librarian was required, and I prefer the Re-roll 1's to wound in shooting and close combat. I roll ones a lot.

I believe you need at least 20 Paladins to take advantage of the strengths of Draigowing. Fewer than that is too easy to manipulate/ kill.

Draigo -275pts
Libby -205pts
Staff + 4 powers

10 Paladin -680pts
4 Psycannon(1 MC)
4 Halberd
2 Hammer
3 Sword
1 Banner

5 Paladin -335
2 Psycannon
3 Halberd
1 Hammer
1 Sword

Storm Raven -205pts
TL MM
TL AC

Storm Raven -205pts
TL MM
TL AC

Storm Raven -205pts
TL MM
TL AC

Venerable Dreadnought -195pts
2x TL Autocannon
Psybolt Ammo

Venerable Dreadnought -195pts
2x TL Autocannon
Psybolt Ammo

This list is 2500pts on the dot. What do you think?

I like that list but I think I'd run one or maybe two ravens with plasma cannon.

I'd say two with Plasma, just because between the dreads, the psycannons, a couple of hammers and TL MM I should have enough anti armor. Though I am wondering about that banner, because if I combat squad its not that great. I may switch that for Psybolt on that squad and Master Craft a 2nd Psycannon.

I would keep that banner and aim to have Draigo with that squad

If you drop the Vendreads and the banner, and take normal dreads instead, you can get 3 TLAC Dreadnaughts and MC 2 more Psycannons.

Good call. I havent used the raven yet, would it be best to just reserve everything, let em walk on from table edge and have the paladins outflanking? I assume this depends on if I go second. If I go first deploy ravens and dreads on table and still have Draigo, Libby and paladins in reserve for outflank?

Venerable Dreadnoughts are better in this list than 3 ordinary ones.

I would Grand-strategise with the specific mission in mind and Scout units to Outflank if objectives were available to seize ort the opponent had left tasty targets for them to move on/shoot/assault in their turn of entry (which is one reason why you want to go second, the other is it allows you to potentially have the last say in grabbing/contesting objectives.

You can go a number of ways:

Outflank all the squads and bring on Draigo, the Librarian and the Dreadnoughts in the 'ravens.
Bring everything on in the 'ravens.
Bring one or two squads on in the 'ravens and outflank a squad and a dreadnought or two.
Variations on that theme.

It's quite important to think through the various possibilities before the game starts and to make the final decision based on who's going first, how your opponent deploys and what the mission is.

If your opponent gets first turn you must reserve everything or you will take heavy casualties.
If you get first turn you might want to deploy everything but you will want to think very carefully before so doing. On the whole I'd always want to go second given the chance and have won several games because my opponent won the initiative roll and chose to go first.

Basically if you come on in turn 2 or 3 you still have the mobility to win any objective game -- and you want to encoutage your opponent to grab objectives 'for free' in the first two turns as this will mean he tends to divide his force) and the firepower and melee strength to easily win a kill point game.

I've used these two lists to great effect:

1850:
http://prometheusatwar.com/2011/06/stormraven-and-land-raider-grey-knight-list-the-army-to-dominate-boston-brawlcon/

2500 ard Boyz:
http://prometheusatwar.com/2011/08/i-came-in-2nd-in-the-40k-ard-boyz/

I figured deployment and movement with this army would take very careful planning in the first two turns of the game due to low model count. Thanks for all the insight Artemo! I agree with ven dreads over regular dreads in this list. The extra durability is very much needed to try n compensate a bit for low model count.

I like the idea

The strength of this list is you can fit a ton of points worth of doom in a very small area, making it difficult for the other guy to really effectively use short range weapons like melta's which are your enemy.
I'd emphasize venerable over normal dreads for the survivability and range, you really need something to shake or stun those demolishers and vindicators

At ard boys levels I would avoid croteze lists, the idea of my croteze list at least is to give the paladins chimera's (mobile cover and light anti tank) and overwhelm the opponent with the sheer number of paladins you can fit in such a list. at 2500 you really cant pull that off too well and you cant saturate the board in armor either so that's out.

The one that doesn't use Draigo?

It's a one trick pony that is really not competitive. Just because you can have a 2500 point army with 22 models doesn't mean you should.

IMO I like having to big meat pally squads at 10 each. They also bring an apothecary, prevent deaths from small-arms fire almost completely.

Bring one or two one-man pally squads to hold objectives then spend the rest on who knows what.

shealyr wrote:The one that doesn't use Draigo?

It's a one trick pony that is really not competitive. Just because you can have a 2500 point army with 22 models doesn't mean you should.

at 2500 it would be something like 30 paladins in 6 chimeras with 6 squads of 3 henchmen with plasma/melta footslogging and some misc support.

its just not enough men. at that point value.

I've won far more tournament games than I've lost with footslogging Draigowing:

Draigo & libby, with two 10 man squads at 1850, and three 10 man squads plus a solo pally at 2500.

I don't know about best but I have a really good time playing mine like this at 2000 points:

Draigo
Librarian with Staff and lots of powers
2x5 Paladins with Apothecaries and individual gear
2 Stormravens with TLAC, TLHB and Psybolts
2 Psyflman Dreads

The whole army rides in the 2 Ravens and gives you a real feel of epic heroes vs. the hordes of evil dudes. But yeah, it's not the best... just wicked fun to play.

Is it worth it to take Draigo and a Libby with only 10 paladins? Even for casual games?
I'd also have 2 squads of purifiers each with a hammer and 2 psycannons in psybacks, 2 GKSS and 2 DKs, and possibly 5 normal termies. Just wondering if I should even bother w/ Draigo.

Draigo is key to footslogging paladins for two reasons: makes them troops, and eats lascannon shots.

He's a four wound, EW character with a 3++. He keeps paladins alive!

nectarprime wrote:Is it worth it to take Draigo and a Libby with only 10 paladins? Even for casual games?
I'd also have 2 squads of purifiers each with a hammer and 2 psycannons in psybacks, 2 GKSS and 2 DKs, and possibly 5 normal termies. Just wondering if I should even bother w/ Draigo.

the + for paladins is how resilient they are
10 terminators cost 400, 10 paladins with moderate equipment is ~600
the paladins can soak about 8-10 wounds before they lose a single model, against less than S8 weapons that makes them twice as tough
with feel no pain, now they are about 4 times as tough, probably a little less.

so if you have 20-30 paladins stalking you, thats equal to about 60-90 terminators against non S8 weapons (!!!)

the downside is there's really only so much that a 2-3 attack model with a power weapon can kill in the span of a game.

I plan on having a 'fun' Draigo list of all footslogging/outflanking paladins with an Apothacary in each unit. Again that's just for fun. Though I would like to fit 1 Apothacary in the list above. FNP is always great.

Okay, so "Draigowing" really isn't practical. A full army of paladins just doesn't make sense. They can't take storm shields, so every stray lascannon or meltagun is killing a 55+ pt dude. Paladins only REALLY work when they are in the same unit as Draigo, so he can absorb the first insta-gib hit from every unit that shoots. He increases their survivability ten fold, just with his presence. That unit then just becomes an all but unbreakable close combat unit that can't be easily killed by anything short of multiple demolishers. The rest of the list can fill every other role.

So here's a list:
Draigo
10x Paladins w/ assorted wargear
Other stuff