Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Polonius wrote:Draigo is key to footslogging paladins for two reasons: makes them troops, and eats lascannon shots.

He's a four wound, EW character with a 3++. He keeps paladins alive!

To build on what Iron-Fist said, sure he keeps one unit of Paladins alive, but what about the rest of your Paladins? Either you forgo the protection of Draigo, or spend lots of points on a Stormraven or Landraider. Some people have had success either way, but I am worried on the one hand that all footslogging Paladins will have the non-Draigo units whittled down too quickly and on the other hand, using a Land Raider means less troops in an already tiny army.....

A footslogging/deepstriking paladin list isn't optimal. But I don't think vehicles and/or dreadnoughts undermine the concept of a 'Draigowing', much like folk add speeders etc to Deathwing.

Fear of few troops is what undermines good paladin lists. You have to embrace having only 2 or 3 units of paladins (depending on points) and using Grand Strategy options to mitigate that (making a couple of dreadnoughts scoring, sometimes) but often just making sure you hold 2 objectives and contest 2 in the worst-case 5 objective game.

A paladin list is atypical and so bringing in typical dogma (take more troops, take more models etc) isn't in my view the best way of addressing the perceived weaknesses.

I have found Draigo-wing is most viable with either a single Land Raider, or multiple Dreads to slog with the rest of your troops. My personal favorite variant is with 1 LR, 1 Ven Dread, 1 unit of 10 with Draigo attached, and a unit of 5 with a Libby in the LR.

I have found success with this variant because my Landraider with the Libby inside gives me a slight radius increase with my Shrouding/Sanctuary, etc. I keep things relatively close together and having that extra scoring Dread that is difficult to kill is a boon. In multiple games my single LR and single Ven Dread have survived (most recently against Darklight Storm DE) so it is possible thanks to shrouding. The LR is a point of contention for sure, but I have found success with it. I find it is a big scary tank that I can keep in a patrolled perimeter around all my troops that spread out if they need to grab obj or castle up and counter charge if they need to. If need be I can knock some troops off objectives with it, burn them to a crisp while blowing up a transport at the same time with it. It's been very versatile for me and I love keeping the LR in there and just driving around and providing rock hard support.

The Ven Dread, aside from protecting me against other psykers (so good against Psyker henchmen!), provides a solid firing base by itself while holding an objective.

Depending on the opponent and the mission/deployment, I sometimes deploy Draigo by himself hidden behind my LR blocking LOS to him. I do this if I want to deep strike my 10 man Paladins and combat squad them if need be for objective taking. I like using Psychic Communion for this and it works out well. Yes, Draigo is extremely good attached to a unit in the open as well to soak up those ID/lascannon shots, but he's also amazing just being by himself guarding my Dread from assaults or just marching toward the nearest enemy and eating them alive. Once the Paladins inside the LR disembark, I sometimes get Draigo inside the LR with the Libby and use him as an assaulter next turn out of the LR.

I agree with Artemo, in that for an army like Draigowing....the key is not always just putting more wounds/bodies on the table. It's adding the right elements to make your few troops more survivable and versatile. Everything in your army is a threat when you play Draigowing, so as long as you deploy and move correctly, your opponent will often have a hard time prioritizing targets. Your Paladin troops have all the tools to deal with anything the game can throw at them, they just need to be supported and they will wreck some face.

Another variant I like is just all footslogging paladins with lots of Dreads. This works because your dreads can provide easy cover for your foot dins, meaning lascannon shots are saved on 3+ which is nice. With dreads on the board, they won't be shooting lascannons at your troops either, because those dreads will promptly blow up any armor posing such a threat.

It remains to be seen which variant I like more, but I am leaning toward the LR + Ven Dread with Draigo and the Libby. There's just so much versatility there and tons of support to deal with many of the dangerous lists out there.

I started running with a single land raider crusader at 1500 points and found it was pretty successful. I've never really tried a mainly foot list but my gut feeling is that a raider or raven is better than more paladins. My venerable dreadnoughts never seem to resist fire as long as well as they should but they're good units, no doubt.

As I'm playing slightly more games at 2000 points than previosuly, I find myself moving to a 'two unit solution'

Draigo, 5 Paladins, Venerable Dreadnought, Stormraven
Librarian, 5 Paladins, Venerable Dreadnought, Stormraven

which has the merit of never having a situation where a single unit comes on the board by itself in turn 2. Not that that is always a disaster but it's bad news if the enemy can concentrate fire and get in a decent assault.

As I said I was thinking, I know psyriflemen are the best but what about a ven dread fitted with heavy flamer, fist with heavy flamer and psyflame ammo being dropped in by a raven full of paladins?

Lok: I think that's a waste as you already have plenty of power in close range shooting/combat with your Paladins. Sacrificing your Ven Dread's ability to be a long-range AT is not worth it IMO. The Ven Dread won't do any better than 5 Paladins flaming/assaulting something.

here's my 1750 list, it works well for me
1750 Pts - Grey Knights Army

HQ: 275
Lord Kaldor Draigo (275)

Elites: 145
Vindicare Assassin (145)

Troops: 725
5x Paladin Squad (315)
Hammer + SB
Halberd + SB
Halberd + Psycannon
Sword + Psycannon
Sword +SB

10x Grey Knight Strike Squad (290)
2x Psycannon
Justicar with Hammer
Psybolt
Rhino

5x Grey Knight Strike Squad (120)
Psycannon
Justicar with Hammer

Fast Attack:205
Stormraven Gunship (205)
TL LC
TL MM

Heavy Support: 400
Dreadnought (135)
Psybolt
TL AC
TL AC

Dreadnought (135)
Psybolt
TL AC
TL AC

Nemesis Dreadknight (130)



Total Army Cost: 1750
-----------------------------------------------
In my opinion,5 men paladin squad is enough,and you really need to give them a SR to get them into close combat.
and you can spend other points on dreads,GKSS,vindicare

l0k1 wrote:I'm currently in the process of putting together a Draigowing army and I've seen multiple variations. Some run Draigo and a Libby, some run a Libby and Coteaz for Henchmen to make up the troop choices. Some lists deliver the paladins via Land Raider, some use Storm Ravens, others use the Grand Strategy to outflank the paladins into battle. The question is which is the most effective? Which provides the most bang for the buck?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/390031.page#3198536

The "Cup Army" in the third match up of this BATREP. Of course to make the "cups" work you need to be playing enough point level to add the Dreadknights.

That's an interesting list byte. I figured they would use more Psykers in the henchmen squads as well as ravens/raider for the paladins. Did all three dreadknights just have teleporters or did they have incinerators and swords as well?

l0k1 wrote:That's an interesting list byte. I figured they would use more Psykers in the henchmen squads as well as ravens/raider for the paladins. Did all three dreadknights just have teleporters or did they have incinerators and swords as well?

Incinerators and dual doomfists. Flame than assault with 5 attacks. 3 att +1 att for two fists +1 for the charge at STR 7 with Hammerhand.

Ah very nice, using teleporting dreadknights as a distraction to keep the paladins safe and on the move without using lots of points of ravens or land raiders.