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I feel like this is the general attitude toward GW. I am not usually one of those people that goes about blasting or supporting GW but it appears to me there is a general attitude of GW can do no right. I make the case that GW is actually listening to some of our concerns now in an article on my blog Capture and Control: Poor GW can't do Anything Right can They?. If you want to read the whole thing feel free but here is a synopsis. GW has gotten better about FAQs than they have been the past; in 4th and the beginning of 5th ed 40k for example FAQs left much to be desired. WHFB had FAQs ready almost immediately after 7th ed came out! The Ard Boyz semi-final missions were an absolute mess, but they slowly changed them it would appear due to the outcry by many of us. Can it truly be that GW just gets a bad rap no matter what? It is beginning to look that way to me, maybe I am alone here.

*edit: Grammar fail.

It's the vocal minority on the internet syndrome. While we hear a great deal about the bads, the number of individuals that are speaking negatively are actually a smaller percentage of the player base than we may think. On the note of GW changing their attitudes, it's true, they have gotten better.

OverwatchCNC wrote: maybe I am alone here.

You are alone.


Even if they made the best FAQs in the univese and coated them in diamond dust it still wouldn't change all the other negatives that exist.

FAQs are the least of their problems...

That's not entirly true. Why the thread about the new naval game is basically just 10 pages ranting about GWs information policy, people usually go nuts for new models. The feedback for the entire Dark Eldar range was very positive.

CT GAMER wrote:

OverwatchCNC wrote: maybe I am alone here.

You are alone.


Even if they made the best FAQs in the univese and coated them in diamond dust it still wouldn't change all the other negatives that exist.

FAQs are the least of their problems...

There are bads, but I'm pretty certain I agree that GW would get a bad rap if they shat gold and mailed it to their customers because it smelled bad.

ToI wrote:It's the vocal minority on the internet syndrome. While we hear a great deal about the bads, the number of individuals that are speaking negatively are actually a smaller percentage of the player base than we may think. On the note of GW changing their attitudes, it's true, they have gotten better.

QFT. There's a host of people who may have problems with GW, but it's pretty rare for each of these problems to be 100% the same in most of the individuals. Even then, the one I often see the most isn't even completely GW's fault; Matt Ward.

I'm hoping with Mantic's upcoming Warpath game GW will realize that they are no longer "the hobby". This will in turn light a fire under their butts and actually start pricing stuff competitively and start interacting with the community more.

@OP: You're not alone, but this won't end well.

ToI wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

OverwatchCNC wrote: maybe I am alone here.

You are alone.


Even if they made the best FAQs in the univese and coated them in diamond dust it still wouldn't change all the other negatives that exist.

FAQs are the least of their problems...

There are bads, but I'm pretty certain I agree that GW would get a bad rap if they shat gold and mailed it to their customers because it smelled bad.

That is because before they mailed it they would tell you it was the finest cast shat in the world, only when you got it it would be full of air bubbles and badly deformed...

As a point to consider, people generally only comment when they're really unhappy or (less commonly) when they're really happy. The 'Meh' masses don't say much.

pretre wrote:@OP: You're not alone, but this won't end well.

Well I hope it won't turn into an all out flame war, that certainly wasn't my intention.

Balance wrote:As a point to consider, people generally only comment when they're really unhappy or (less commonly) when they're really happy. The 'Meh' masses don't say much.

That is a valid point. The "meh" or silent majority rarely write comments on topics like this. I guess I have grown tired of hearing nothing but GW hate all over the place, especially when I don't think they are all that bad, not great or awesome, but certainly not terrible.

i don't know about people in other areas but i have found primarily GW's bad rap is more internet based than anything, i've heard the occasional complaint about them being to expensive but thats about as far as it goes.

girgam wrote:i don't know about people in other areas but i have found primarily GW's bad rap is more internet based than anything, i've heard the occasional complaint about them being to expensive but thats about as far as it goes.

Nice Avatar!

I don't hear too much in person either. There are a few guys at our FLGS that complain but they are sort of complainers as it is.

No, they can't do anything right! Pathetic failures... Bah! I spit on their horrible attempts at providing entertainment and laugh as they cry and hide in shame. SHAME ON YOU GW!

Honestly, people will complain about anything because it's just so much easier and more stress relieving to complain about something than it is to praise the things you like. It's also a lot of fun to exaggerate.
If Games Workshop were really as bad as the Internet says they are we would all be painting badly sculpted styrofoam with paints tested on baby squirrels in secret laboratories hidden somewhere in a lava filled volcano lair...

OverwatchCNC wrote:That is a valid point. The "meh" or silent majority rarely write comments on topics like this. I guess I have grown tired of hearing nothing but GW hate all over the place, especially when I don't think they are all that bad, not great or awesome, but certainly not terrible.

I dislike a lot of their stuff, and am generally burned out on the setting, but I try to say "That's a neat design!" even though it's not my current style. Of course, I can claim to be working in the industry, however peripherally, and thus am a biased con-artist who speaks in nothing but lies.

Or am I?

Balance wrote:

OverwatchCNC wrote:That is a valid point. The "meh" or silent majority rarely write comments on topics like this. I guess I have grown tired of hearing nothing but GW hate all over the place, especially when I don't think they are all that bad, not great or awesome, but certainly not terrible.

I dislike a lot of their stuff, and am generally burned out on the setting, but I try to say "That's a neat design!" even though it's not my current style. Of course, I can claim to be working in the industry, however peripherally, and thus am a biased con-artist who speaks in nothing but lies.

Or am I?

Ha! I see what you did there.

CT GAMER wrote:

ToI wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

OverwatchCNC wrote: maybe I am alone here.

You are alone.


Even if they made the best FAQs in the univese and coated them in diamond dust it still wouldn't change all the other negatives that exist.

FAQs are the least of their problems...

There are bads, but I'm pretty certain I agree that GW would get a bad rap if they shat gold and mailed it to their customers because it smelled bad.

That is because before they mailed it they would tell you it was the finest cast shat in the world, only when you got it it would be full of air bubbles and badly deformed...

Ok, really? Everyone makes mistakes and we all know Finecast was a rough start for GW, that's not what this is about. And I repeat, if you got a lump of gold the size of your fist in the mail would you complain that it had air bubbles or wasn't cast into a bar for you? And don't go off about fine cast...

To summarise the thread:

People who dislike GW, their policies and, in fact, anything they do can be instantly dismissed as a smaller fringe minority group whose opinions don't matter, whose grievances are invalid and who's criticisms lack merit. Back to the pile!!!



I've got a better strategy. It's called "credit where credit's due". People may want to dismiss me as a mindless hater who thinks everything GW does is an affront to human decency (that's crap, only most of what they do fits that bill ), but that's simply not true. I will always give credit where credit's due, and whenever GW makes something that is really cool or starts to do something new that could be considered quite revolutionary from a model design perspective, I will celebrate it.

But don't expect me to sit back and take all the endless bs (bad rules, price rises, mother-fething embargoes) in silence.

Heh, I agree with the OP. Sure, they do some things poorly, but they also do some things very very well. They're a miniature making company and, at the end of the day, they make nice miniatures. Sure, we may not like all of it, but there will always be something we like, so job done on their part.

There are issues with everything, be it GW or global politics, and people will nay-say about everything that comes along... me, I think GW is likely as miffed about this finecast thing as the rest of us. It's an annoyance for us, a serious embarrassment for them... you can get a new mini relatively easily, and it may take time to get one right, but when you do get a good one it's a damn good mini. And they will keep trying 'til you get what you wanted, despite the fact that they'll be waiting years to earn back the ratings they lost over finecast. They can't be all that bad then, surely.

What more do you want, free cake when you go into a GW store? 'cause they've done that before, too

Still, it'd be nice to have a game in their secret, evil volcano lair sometime.

Hückleberry wrote:I'm hoping with Mantic's upcoming Warpath game GW will realize that they are no longer "the hobby".

I'm wondering why you'd think Mantic would be the ones to make them realize this when Rackham, Privateer Press, Corvus Belli, Wyrd, Spartan Games, and countless other companies weren't.

H.B.M.C. wrote:To summarise the thread:

People who dislike GW, their policies and, in fact, anything they do can be instantly dismissed as a smaller fringe minority group whose opinions don't matter, whose grievances are invalid and who's criticisms lack merit. Back to the pile!!!



I've got a better strategy. It's called "credit where credit's due". People may want to dismiss me as a mindless hater who thinks everything GW does is an affront to human decency (that's crap, only most of what they do fits that bill ), but that's simply not true. I will always give credit where credit's due, and whenever GW makes something that is really cool or starts to do something new that could be considered quite revolutionary from a model design perspective, I will celebrate it.

But don't expect me to sit back and take all the endless bs (bad rules, price rises, mother-fething embargoes) in silence.

You site good references there. I don't expect everyone to be in love with GW. I was only making the observation that it seems, despite their attempts to please us, some people are never pleased. Obviously you do not fit this bill. The Fortress of Redemption is easily one of the best kits they have put out, despite my not being a huge fan of Planetstrike.

I'd work to make sure you're not confusing some people being displeased with any given release, and a set group of people being displeased with everything.

There are a couple hundred regular posters here. Even if only 5% hate a model, there will be posts.

Polonius wrote:I'd work to make sure you're not confusing some people being displeased with any given release, and a set group of people being displeased with everything.

There are a couple hundred regular posters here. Even if only 5% hate a model, there will be posts.

I know. I wanted to point out that I believed GW is actually trying to do things right. Some people will always espouse that GW is not even trying but I find that assertion unfair and wanted to point out why I believe that.

I think Games Workshop does a few things really well, most things fairly, a few things poorly, and a few things quite badly - but their FAQ releases have been on the better end of the spectrum. Much more frequent releases. Some of them are still sort of ambiguous but that's the nature of the beast.

I don't buy the perception that there are a lot of "haters" who spend all day loathing everything GW does simply as a thing to do. I think there are a lot of people who are passionate about the HHHobby who get upset about some of the things that GW does which really are screwed up. By any dispassionate measure, their ROW shipping policy does suck. By any dispassionate measure, moving to a cheaper material while jacking prices significantly does suck. The fact that WD now gets sent to paying subscribers after people off the street can buy them... well, you get the idea.

It's human nature to try and label something, but boxing people into haters and fanboys generally says more about your lack of perception and open-mindedness then it does about the actual dynamics of GW's fanbase.

GW earned that reputation. And around me, no its not just on the internet.

carmachu wrote: And around me, no its not just on the internet.

Same. Even the smaller, private clubs are starting to talk/complain about it.

Platuan4th wrote:

carmachu wrote: And around me, no its not just on the internet.

Same. Even the smaller, private clubs are starting to talk/complain about it.

Alot of older players, long time ones have alot of complaints about GW. Even the new guy, who was so gung ho about GW after a while found that the longer you played GW games, the more GW does something that just pisses on and/or off part or many of its customer base.

OverwatchCNC wrote:

Polonius wrote:I'd work to make sure you're not confusing some people being displeased with any given release, and a set group of people being displeased with everything.

There are a couple hundred regular posters here. Even if only 5% hate a model, there will be posts.

I know. I wanted to point out that I believed GW is actually trying to do things right. Some people will always espouse that GW is not even trying but I find that assertion unfair and wanted to point out why I believe that.

GW does do certain things right. Their return policy is excellent. I also still believe overall that lower management is pretty decent as well.

But I agree with H.B.M.C. I give credit when credit is due and I vote with my wallet to show my displeasure or approval.

OverwatchCNC wrote:

Polonius wrote:I'd work to make sure you're not confusing some people being displeased with any given release, and a set group of people being displeased with everything.

There are a couple hundred regular posters here. Even if only 5% hate a model, there will be posts.

I know. I wanted to point out that I believed GW is actually trying to do things right. Some people will always espouse that GW is not even trying but I find that assertion unfair and wanted to point out why I believe that.

No. It's not unfair, they have earned every bit of scorne they deserve.

I would give them credit, if it were due. Too bad they haven't knocked my socks off for that to happen, yet.

H.B.M.C. wrote:To summarise the thread:

People who dislike GW, their policies and, in fact, anything they do can be instantly dismissed as a smaller fringe minority group whose opinions don't matter, whose grievances are invalid and who's criticisms lack merit. Back to the pile!!!



I've got a better strategy. It's called "credit where credit's due". People may want to dismiss me as a mindless hater who thinks everything GW does is an affront to human decency (that's crap, only most of what they do fits that bill ), but that's simply not true. I will always give credit where credit's due, and whenever GW makes something that is really cool or starts to do something new that could be considered quite revolutionary from a model design perspective, I will celebrate it.

But don't expect me to sit back and take all the endless bs (bad rules, price rises, mother-fething embargoes) in silence.

I'm in the same boat as well, give credit where its due. The negative tone of my comments on Dakka stems from the fact that I have high expectations with anything I like and thus are brutally honest with my posts (I don't believe in sugar coating even if I really like something). I also agree with Ouze and categorising people into simple "us and them" categories shows poor form.

In regards to GW itself, the main reason I left was due to their policies (embargo, price rise, bad releases etc). I still admit they still make good sculpts (like the recent Tzeentch Herald). The problems is I strictly collect and convert Chaos Space Marines and am also a bit of a rules buff. There hasn't been a new CSM miniature release in quite a while and the current CSM codex sucks. Now if I lived in a non ROW country and collected a faction other than CSM (like Vanilla Space Marines), there'd be a small possibility that I'd still be collecting GW products. Although I have too admit the grass is pretty green on the PP side of the fence so I'm glad I GW made me leave GW!