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ops wrong thread...

This is what they've been doing lately before 'big releases'.

It's just intended to be something to hype it up. The production values are low, but if you expect to see SWTOR's "Hope" or "Deceived" done for each GW release...you're in for a shocker.

As a Tyranid player, I think that after getting a load of minis with rules spread across almost £100 worth of Apocalypse publications, there's a fair grievance that almost all of those rules were simply struck away by the new Codex and still not sorted out.

If a video game publisher released a load of pricey DLC and then a new patch for the game rendered the DLC incompatible except for the pretty menu screens, the publisher would be crucified.

Kanluwen wrote:This is what they've been doing lately before 'big releases'.

It's just intended to be something to hype it up. The production values are low, but if you expect to see SWTOR's "Hope" or "Deceived" done for each GW release...you're in for a shocker.

Don't know what SWOTR is

Like I say, don't wish to drag the thread OT
My point is more that they have executed the marketing poorly. Yet for some it will still be a case of "GW hate" to say so.
Whereas it is a valid expression of an opinion and nothing more.




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NAVARRO wrote:wrong thread...

and JUST what is wrong with this thread exactly?
Not good enough for you is it?

pfff Haters gonna hate

Star Wars: The Old Republic. Basically, Bioware had cinema level trailers for its announcements.

I think the vocal minority thing is getting less and less true as time goes on.

There's virtually no-one at my local Gaming Club, which is about 15 minutes away from a GW that buys directly from GW now, and the few that have recently come back and say they're not doing it again due to staff sales tactics.

There's a bunch of us that do still buy from Wayland/Maelstrom etc. But even then, more and more of us are now turning to Ebay to pick up models. Or, in Fantasy's case. Mantic.

However, in saying all that. And I've said it before, if you're over 15/16, you're not the target audience. Little Timmy is, and GW will not change until Little Timmy stops buying.

And, in my opinion, by that point, it'll be too late. One day the price rise will just get so high, that when Timmy comes into the store, dragging his mother in, she'll look at the price for 10 'toy sodjers,' laugh and then walk out.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:


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NAVARRO wrote:wrong thread...

and JUST what is wrong with this thread exactly?
Not good enough for you is it?

pfff Haters gonna hate

We try but looking at GW we are just amateurs

sourclams wrote:

I think this is a point that largely gets overlooked in the 'GW Haterz' threads. GW's diversification from their core 'game' (into pen&paper, PC/Console, and Black Library) allows people to enjoy the 40k mythos without the plastic men. And these other outlets also seem hugely successful.

The problem is....whats hugely sucessful. I'm sure the space marine sold ok, but I doubt it did top anticiapted game numbers like say, halo or Fallout ones. FFG RPG's do ok, but they arent doing paizo's pathfinder sales, to say nothing of WOTC numbers. And so on. Whats hugely successfuil?

Let me see:

better faqs, one amazing realease (dark eldar)

One slap in the face (Finecost/Failcast), one Embargo to south countrys, one price politics to oceania that is dumb, a bunch of overpowered codex (codex creepy increased), prices reaching a critical mass, prices increase in stocked figures, price increases on very old releases, WD-Codex to sell some old figures (who got a price increase). Boxes of 5 marines sold for the same price as 10 marines (and it is not the older cost who go down).

So, they dont do everthing wrong, but the great majority of the things they do ARE bad, and that things speak louder than the good ones (I just give up from an Dark Eldar army, for a matter of self respect, i will not 1/4 of my annual income, in a company who aparently dont want my money).

Example: the Naval game they are ready to release. They will charge an out of market price for it, it will come with a bunch of models, and they will make a very limited edition of them. So, they are acting like bitches. Look at how other companies do it: they charge good prices, and they actually want to sell more of it, not a limited edition.

my opinion;

Well, I was in the GW hobby for exactly 20 years in a row and I'm not sure which one changed GW or me, but I'm out now. I've sold all my armies, all my sprues and models and all my paints and accessories. I doubt I'll be back.

I'm still gaming though, just not with Games Workshop anymore. It was good while it lasted, I guess.

i lasted only 10 years before saying "to hell with it"
mind you I am keeping my Skaven because I love the models for them, and to play past editions at home

carmachu wrote:

sourclams wrote:

I think this is a point that largely gets overlooked in the 'GW Haterz' threads. GW's diversification from their core 'game' (into pen&paper, PC/Console, and Black Library) allows people to enjoy the 40k mythos without the plastic men. And these other outlets also seem hugely successful.

The problem is....whats hugely sucessful. I'm sure the space marine sold ok, but I doubt it did top anticiapted game numbers like say, halo or Fallout ones. FFG RPG's do ok, but they arent doing paizo's pathfinder sales, to say nothing of WOTC numbers. And so on. Whats hugely successfuil?

GW's licensing royalties accounted for less than 3% of revenue in its last report.

It's not clear how they classify royalties -- i.e. do computer games, Black Library and Fantasy Flight games go in there or not?

carmachu wrote:

sourclams wrote:

I think this is a point that largely gets overlooked in the 'GW Haterz' threads. GW's diversification from their core 'game' (into pen&paper, PC/Console, and Black Library) allows people to enjoy the 40k mythos without the plastic men. And these other outlets also seem hugely successful.

The problem is....whats hugely sucessful. I'm sure the space marine sold ok, but I doubt it did top anticiapted game numbers like say, halo or Fallout ones. FFG RPG's do ok, but they arent doing paizo's pathfinder sales, to say nothing of WOTC numbers. And so on. Whats hugely successfuil?

Not "Ultramarines."

oh god that movie was dull

Wow. Lots of good (and imo respectful) replies in here. Dakka, you surprise me!

Anyhow, despite being incredibly enthusiastic for warhammer at an age when I couldn't possibly afford it, my opinion did change like the very true post above with the metaphor of the older brother; I still love their lore, and the overall look and style of the universe, but the rules don't accurately (imo) reflect the universe and style, and the prices and other shenanigans turn me off further from them.

I guess I see their faults as follows:
Minor problems, aka "Stuff that sucks but could be fixed without too much issue"

---Finecast: Have never bought any, and probably never will. With pricing something the same as metal, but with quality control worse then Chinese plastic army men in many cases, I think without a major cost drop or quality improvement, this is a doomed venture.

---White Dwarf: Really, they just need to tone down the ads and start including more fluff, more fun, more non-shilling articles. If White Dwarf had the same type of content as in the old 3rd edition days (Custom vehicle rules, terrain and army tips, battle reports that weren't ads for the newest shiny, etc) I'd subscribe in a heartbeat.

---Rumor crackdowns: If I don't know about a new release, why would I be excited about it?

---Power Creep/slow updates: Again, sometimes this is worse than others. 5th ed 40K is balanced just fine, assuming you're using a 5th ed codex. For everyone else, 9 times out of 10 you're at a significant disadvantadge simply due to outdated rules.

Major problems, aka "Stuff that if it doesn't get fixed, the company will fail"

---Overseas embargo: Again and again I read about people from the land down under and their entire groups wholesale converting to PP or alternative companies because of the ridiculous price dissonance. While I understand that GW was doing this as a slap on the wrist against resellers, honestly this has become cutting off their nose to spite their face: I'm fairly confident they've lost more money by an order of magnitude thanks to the embargo than they would have lost due to resellers.

---Overall price increases: This is the big one, the prime issue that will [Oracle of Doom]spell GW's financial downfall within the next decade and a half.[/Oracle of Doom] As Compel said, GW is leaping and bounding towards the critical mass pricepoint for their boxed models. If they keep raising prices at this rate, especially during a ing economic recession, they're simply winding their own rope. While I'm not of the "OMG!1! $35?? IT SHOULD BE $5!!1" extreme, if they were to reduce their model kits to perhaps twice their at-cost value, or even three times, I'd suspect that'd still be $5-10 cheaper than their current prices, and help reel more sales back in and keep the Little Jimmy market alive and well. I'm not saying they should price at below what they need to make ends meet, but currently they're not pricing for sustainability, they're pricing for profit. Normally, this is fine, but when price outstrips demand, that doesn't magically increase demand...

darkPrince010 wrote:Wow. Lots of good (and imo respectful) replies in here. Dakka, you surprise me!

---Overall price increases: This is the big one, the prime issue that will [Oracle of Doom]spell GW's financial downfall within the next decade and a half.[/Oracle of Doom] As Compel said, GW is leaping and bounding towards the critical mass pricepoint for their boxed models. If they keep raising prices at this rate, especially during a ing economic recession, they're simply winding their own rope. While I'm not of the "OMG!1! $35?? IT SHOULD BE $5!!1" extreme, if they were to reduce their model kits to perhaps twice their at-cost value, or even three times, I'd suspect that'd still be $5-10 cheaper than their current prices, and help reel more sales back in and keep the Little Jimmy market alive and well. I'm not saying they should price at below what they need to make ends meet, but currently they're not pricing for sustainability, they're pricing for profit. Normally, this is fine, but when price outstrips demand, that doesn't magically increase demand...

I have been impressed with the quality of responses and lack of flame attacks here as well!

I think you hit the nail on the head for me with your last bit. I am not a GW apologist/fanboi nor am I a GW apocalyptic, I am definitely in the middle. The price hikes have gotten to be pretty ridiculous, I used to cringe at paying $50 for a Land Raider. Now I won't buy one without either a discount of some sort or by getting credit for winning a tournament etc. Regular troops and vehicle costs remain with in the bounds of what I have deemed personally acceptable but only for now, GW is quite close to pricing me out of the hobby. It isn't that I can't afford to continue but I am wholly unwilling to pay prices any higher than at the current level, eventually it will become a waste of money no matter how much I like the story line and background.

Therion wrote:I've sold all my armies...

Even those amazing Eldar you had commissioned?




Sorry, but I couldn't help but laugh at this. GW fails at the Internet. Again.

I'm at their own damned website and I can't view the trailer. Way to not use the Internet again guys.

I think they may have pulled it because people were being nasty about it. They disabled the Youtube comments before making it private there. Poor GW :(

I think they made the video private because of the extreme amount of bad comments it was getting on youtube.

Hilarious!

Ninja'd by filbert!

Well played good sir... Well played...

Personally, I've been suprised that the fictional parents of Little Jimmy have been willing to open the vein and get him/her/it a box of space marines at current prices.

I think GW will see an even more drastic sales drop-off once the cost of a Tactical marine box edges over $40 (Probably in about 5 years or so, if their online price is anything to go by), and almost total lack of sales once the prices hit $5 for an individual model in a $50 box. My personal cutoff was ~$25-30, and as a result I haven't bought a box of GW models in over a decade.

Overall, it makes me sad. To further abuse the metaphor, not only do you see the older brother abusing his friends and being an ass, you also see him start to spend all his time drinking, and he ignores you and all your friends and family warning him about the probable results of his habit. I don't want GW to fail, but unless they drastically change, they will (not might, but will) collapse in the near future.


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Sheesh, that trailer is terrible. (It wasn't private for me! )I'd understand making that when you're in the mid 90s and personal commercials are fancy, but zooming in and out on a low-resolution piece of box art will definately not wow our current generation. I wonder if they outsourced the production to their local junior high?....

I'll admit I'm something of a hater, but I try not to be baseless in my hatred Really, I want to like Games Workshop. I love their universes, their miniatures, and even their game systems, warts and all (all though 8th Fantasy is probably the worst GW game I've ever played, it's still (barely) acceptable). There are three main things that bother me:

1.)The secrecy
2.)The total lack of support for Specialist Games
3.)The price

If they changed even one of these for the better, I would probably return to the fold (preferably the prices). The embargo thing is pretty horrible, but it doesn't really affect me, though I feel for the Aussies and Kiwis.

Basically, I really want to like GW, but they make it hard for me.

For example, Dread Fleet looks really cool. I love it. I want it. But not enough to spend $115 on it.

They are already pushing 40 bucks.

Thats why people are using GW as the butt of bad jokes.

RatBot wrote: I'll admit I'm something of a hater, but I try not to be baseless in my hatred Really, I want to like Games Workshop.

Me too, but they dont help us to do it... And i tried...

Right now, i feel like a "spanked wife" everytime i buy something from them: my husband beat me every day, but i really like him, and keep my hope it will change one day. But right now, he is coming home more drunk, and hitting harder. Should I ask for the divorce?

The Dwarf Wolf wrote: everytime i buy something from them: my husband beat me every day, but i really like him, and keep my hope it will change one day. But right now, he is coming home more drunk, and hitting harder. Should I ask for the divorce?

The Dwarf Wolf: It's not your fault.

*hugs*

FWIW The trailer video is still working on BoW

Can someone fill me on on what the teaser trailer is? First I'm hearing about it was HBMC's comment showing it was pulled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m1t5hYvCLo&feature=player_embedded

That game looks pretty neat, actually. The voice over work was a bit rough but overall I think trailer was OK.

Skull imagery shown in video: 121 times
Video length: 614 seconds
Skulls per second: .20

filbert wrote:I think they may have pulled it because people were being nasty about it. They disabled the Youtube comments before making it private there. Poor GW :(

That is failing at Internet.

My company (Sony) operates various websites with forums and comment areas. We get plenty of flak. We take the rough with the smooth, because we invest the appropriate resources in managing the sites.

Any large company has to do the same if they want to use the internet effectively.

Ouze wrote:That game looks pretty neat, actually. The voice over work was a bit rough but overall I think trailer was OK.

This is what I thought as well. The pirate accent was kinda cheesey, but its not like the whole thing was done in it. I thought the guy explaining the game did a good job, and it does look kind of fun.