Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

How do Orks best deal with Hammernators?

Lots of dakka, or just the normal orky way....drown the hammernators with a sea of green...

Throwing boyz at them is pretty much the way to go. This tactics usually works in most situations. XD

The more wounds the more saves they must take the greater the odds they'll roll a 1. Also if you have a PK Nob in there, as you should, he can deliver hits that will cause them to take their 4++.

Either that, or my personal favorite, SAG!! The look on their face when they realize that an AP 2 pie plate just landed on their 200 pt (or higher) unit is pretty much priceless.

alot of ork players forget that boyz have sluggas too.

So, SHOOT first, then assault. Marine players will roll ones....

Remember that you hit before the hammers in cc - it doesn't happen often and it's easy to forget.
They cost 200 pts and in cc they only do 10 attacks, admittedly all hits will splat orks but you face worse. Never match them up with nobz squads however.

Run mobs of 30 boys with a nob armed with a power klaw. Shoot before you assault you might get one or 2 if your opponent rolls bad. In combat you hif first with the boys that will be a load of attacks going into 3 or 4 guys. You will probably drop another one. They get to go back at you migh even if they hit an would with all 3 that is only 6 dead orks, who cares you still have 24 and are fearless. You power klaw gets to go next and it's just like killing regular marines they still die on a on a 1 or 2. Even if you don't kill them all the first round, you should have them the second round and will still probably have 20 some boys left to throw into something else, while you opponent is out an expensive unoit that did not do anything.

1)Shoot with SAG and ladz.
2)Assault with ladz.
3)Throw more ladz into the mix until problem goes away.
4)Find new target and repeat.

-cgmckenzie

Give them loads of dice to roll saves with, every 6 wounds equals a dead terminator.

Yea boyz still as mentioned. The only REAL difference with TH/SS termies against boyz, is that the Nob has less a chance of killing terminators, but Ill still take a 50% chance of my wounds killing. Because the hammers dont really do anything nasty to boyz that PF dont, and the terminators still get their 2+ against boyz attacks, so its business as usual there

cgmckenzie wrote:1)Shoot with SAG and ladz.
2)Assault with ladz.
3)Throw more ladz into the mix until problem goes away.
4)Find new target and repeat.

-cgmckenzie

Ork Cleansing Method. It kind of makes me want to make an Ork shampoo called "Squeaky Boyz".

Going to echo the 'throw 30 boyz at it' solution.

I wouldn't throw a nobz squad at it. They'll get instagibbed by Powerfists, and aren't nearly as expendable.

Yea nobz are probably the worst unit to throw at Terminators of any kind. Remember that ID works on whole models first, not wounded nobz, so the ones that die are untouched models.

As an ork player, the one word you need concern yourself with is "more". If a problem arises, go through this process.


Step 1) Will more Orks sovle problem?

If no, continue to 2.


2) Will more dakka help?


If no, continue to 3.


3) Please stop drinking when playing 40k. Options 1 and 2 fix everything. Go straight to the Inquisition. Do not pass Go. Do not collect £200.

cgmckenzie wrote:1)Shoot with SAG and ladz.
2)Assault with ladz.
3)Throw more ladz into the mix until problem goes away.
4)???
5) Profit
-cgmckenzie

Fix'd

Roll them over with a deffrolla. If theyre not there anymore you know youve done a good job.

Frankly, I'm more scared of LC Terms. They get to strike before drowning in a sea of Boyz.

Jollydevil wrote:

cgmckenzie wrote:1)Shoot with SAG and ladz.
2)Assault with ladz.
3)Throw more ladz into the mix until problem goes away.
4)???
5) Profit
-cgmckenzie

Fix'd

Roll them over with a deffrolla. If theyre not there anymore you know youve done a good job.

this....works with everything...no exceptions

* coughTitanscough*


*coughPurifierspamwithCroweHeroicSacrificeonGhrazcough*

Don't assault Grey Knights. Ever. Just shoot them. I don't even play anybody who fields them.

My terminators never do well against orks.

They are usually killed by the amount of attacks they have to save.

Hammernators can inflict some pain on the nob squad though as they are doubled out, can't use FNP and have pretty bad inv save.

But the boyz shouldn't be too worried about them.

Deadshot wrote:* coughTitanscough*


*coughPurifierspamwithCroweHeroicSacrificeonGhrazcough*

Anything that can't be killed by boyz, can be killed by nobz. That's the whole point of nobz, actually.

Hammernators are best dealt with using big units with lots of attacks (shooting or I2+ otherwise) and wounds to cut through, after the terminators have been drawn out and isolated. That last part becomes more important if you are dealing with a smart one, and has units (Even a charge from a 10 man tac squad can be enough to break the terminators out, or provide an anchor point for combat tactics on the terminators.) in range to deal with a lot of boyz suddenly in charge range. Or ones that have FNP and are supported by assault squads as countercharge units. Or both.

Though 5 terminators tend not to survive being shot at by 20 boyz plus whatever is in the area and then charged, stormshields or not. Countercharge becomes a minor problem then.

The TH/SS terminator has a 2+/3++ save, making them extremely resilient to high strength, low shot weaponry such as power fists.
TH/SS terminators are not any more resilient to low strength normal save attacks than normal terminators are, and are only twice as resilient as regular marines to such attacks.

Lucky for the ork player, these kind of attacks come on plethora with their army!

Lets take a best case. If you have a full squad of shootas attacking terminators, here is what you will toss at them.
* 54 STR 4 shots
* 9 STR 5 shots
Followed up with an assault of 87 STR 4 attacks and 4 PK attacks.
While its doubtful that you will be able to get all 30 boys into shooting range or assault, it can deliver just whats needed to kill the squad of TH/SS termies.

Now thats to take down a squad of 5 termies. If your seeing 10 termies on foot, you will need to concentrate firepower.

I think it is worth pointing out the mathhammer thing of purely working out averages doesn't really work.
If the boyz get slightly lucky then victory is theirs, if the hammers get slightly lucky then they will slowly win.

Actually, the whole mathhammer thing works out great for orks. I throw so many dice that I can rather accurately predict how any shooting/combat is going to end if I actually sit down and think about it. The time it takes to do that is prohibitive in anything but a fun game, and it takes the fun out of it too, so I rarely do it.

-cgmckenzie

MFletch wrote:I think it is worth pointing out the mathhammer thing of purely working out averages doesn't really work.
If the boyz get slightly lucky then victory is theirs, if the hammers get slightly lucky then they will slowly win.

Remember that the law of large numbers means that if you throw 100 dice your more likely to get an average spread than if you throw 10 numbers. This means that the ork player actually has less of a chance of getting a 'good streak' or 'bad streak' than an army which throws fewer dice. You can still have them, but its not as common.

Secondly, using averages is extremely useful for tactics. Thats how you can determine what is the best course of action in a game. If you can determine that 'unit X should reliably kill unit Y' then you know that is a good course of action if you want to kill unit Y. If you judge your tactics on "good dice rolls" or "bad dice rolls" you cannot predict, how will you decide what tactical decisions to make in a game?

MFletch wrote:I think it is worth pointing out the mathhammer thing of purely working out averages doesn't really work.
If the boyz get slightly lucky then victory is theirs, if the hammers get slightly lucky then they will slowly win.

The law of great numbers tells us that terminators are much less likely to get lucky than orks are to get unlucky. When attacking marines with orks, I close to always roll my mathhammered 25% wounds in CC, give or take three.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Labmouse beat me to it

Here's your mathhammer, working backwards:

5 Terminators saving on 2+
30 wounds to get past 2+ five times
60 hits for S4 to inflict 30 wounds
180 shots from Shootas, or 120 melee swipes, needed to hit 60 times

But when throwing mathammer at a problem, I prefer to give it a solid luck factor in the enemy's favour. So, let's assume that a Terminator will roll ones only eight in nine rolls, whilst the Ork player swears a lot. Now, we need to inflict 45 wounds to reliably wipe out five termies.

30 Shoota Boyz:
54 STR 4 shots = 18 hits = 9 wounds = 1 kill
9 STR 5 shots = 3 hits = 2 wounds = 0.22 kills
87 STR 4 attacks = 43.5 hits = 21.75 wounds = 2.42 kills
4 PK attacks = 2 hits = 1.67 wounds = (assuming they pass 5/6 of 3++ saves) 1.39 wounds

Even after very good Marine luck passing some 50% of roll they should have failed, we're chipping away 5.03 wounds. So, Terminators need extreme luck to survive this barrage of hits.

This is precisely what I mean. It is assumed that large numbers mean that averages will be give the whole story.

Let's say we charge we 20 orks into 5 TH/SS. They can have sluggas and no nob to make things easy.

The orks will hit with 80 st4 attacks. Each attack has 1/2 chance of hitting, 1/2 wounding, 1/6 breaking armour.
That is 1/24 chance of killing for each attack, we have 80 so average is just under 4 so we should have a slaughter.

(23 / 24)^80=0.03 so 3% zero dead
80*(1/24)*(23/24)^79=0.12 so 12% 1 dead
3160*(1/24)^2*(23/24)^78=0.20 so 20% 2 dead

35% of the time it will be below the average we thought. For every extra model left alive they get 2 extra attacks that 5/12 of the time will cream an ork: this is huge, especially as the orks now go down to st3 and there will be less attacks.

You might be forgetting the Dual LC's that Reroll to hit and wound. That also go first.

Just avoid them or use Nobz.