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InquisitorVaron wrote:You might be forgetting the Dual LC's that Reroll to hit and wound. That also go first.

Just avoid them or use Nobz.

They only reroll to-hit if they're Templars (or has Unleash Rage cast on them), and let's face it, if you get charged by a terminator squad with Furious Charge and Prefered Enemy: You and your entire family, you're going down.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

InquisitorVaron wrote:You might be forgetting the Dual LC's that Reroll to hit and wound. That also go first.

Just avoid them or use Nobz.

They only reroll to-hit if they're Templars (or has Unleash Rage cast on them), and let's face it, if you get charged by a terminator squad with Furious Charge and Prefered Enemy: You and your entire family, you're going down.

Just hide in terrain, and hope they didn't come out of a landraider with the assault launcher.

The whole 'striking first' thing makes me more afraid of LC's than TS/SS. What with the 'AP2 shooting and power weapons' not really being amongst the Orky solutions for heavy infantry.

id almost be tempted to shoot it out with them to avoid worrying about the above rules and gear with the LC and such. i know thats the cardinal sin of any ork player, but i think its pretty easy to designate a lot of effective firepower at them, without effecting your overall strategy. Remember just how many points they are - they deserve the attention!

orks have access to some decent AP2 weapons - SAG mentioned earlier, a cheap zzap gun battery, but also the lesser-spotted killakans with KMBs. non of these are really terribly affected by orks poor BS either. combine these with a plethora of boys and they tend to fall quickly.
hell, a decent volley from 15 lootas would give them a hard time too - near auto-wounding means you give them maybe 5-10 dice roll a turn to try and save

i must admit though, in practice its a luck-driven strategy. swamping them with dakka or boyz is all an ork can reliably do

last time a played them i swamped them with my 19 grots. couldnt really effectively kill them with how the board had ended up, so instead i effectively inacapacitated them for a few turns. before you know it, with a dead turn 1, turns 2-3 dealing with gretchin, and then turns 4-5 getting to wherever they want to go, they may as well not have turned up.

mind you, that was a purely situational response and probably hard to repeat...

The basic problem is how to deal with TH/SS units, and there's a lot more to this than working out what unit can table that in 80% of ideal scenarios. If a shokka, shoota blob, Kan wall etc makes the Marine player frightened enough of failing saves, it's doing the job of neutralising the threat.

How are TH/SS used? It's mostly from a LR waiting for something expensive to get into range (or else earning its keep by scarecrowing everyone away from a castle) or Deathwing onslaught, AFAIK. I think we can also throw GK into this issue, with the number of 4++/2++ they can pull out.

In the case of Deathwing carnage, it's pretty simple; shoot them with everything you can, as soon as you can. AP2, PK and even Rokkits are handy to get past the command unit's FNP. (This applies to Paladins, as well.)

With a LR full of foaming sledgehammer dudes, it's not so simple. Orks are bad at killing these at range, and whilst they're embarked all the anti-term firepower is wasted. BW spam with Deffrollas aplenty can force them to back up, to a point. Any melee unit that can tip a LR (including Deffrollas) will have to present itself as a charge target first. If you can bait them out and not get in a tarpit with them, then you can start throwing bullets and boyz at them...

The basic problem is how to deal with TH/SS units, and there's a lot more to this than working out what unit can table that in 80% of ideal scenarios. If a shokka, shoota blob, Kan wall etc makes the Marine player frightened enough of failing saves, it's doing the job of neutralising the threat.

This. Tabling a unit of terminators means nothing if it puts most of your army in position to by shot up and swept by his support units that were waiting for you to overreact and charge in with a bunch of boyz. (If the otherwise good player has disembarked perhaps a little too early and left his TH/SS in range of your boyz to be charged easily, you may be in danger of getting Ackbar`d.)

Tabling a unit of terminators is not really REQUIRED if you can manage to immobilize the transport and leave them stranded for half the game.

Ignoring the terminators as best you can and taking the rest of the army out from under the marine player may also be the best way to deal with them.

Going to depend on a lot of things. OP, what specifically is the problem your army is having? How are they fielded? What are they supported by? Tell us what exactly the terminators are doing to tip things in the other players favor, and what you have to fight them with.

lindsay40k wrote:The basic problem is how to deal with TH/SS units, and there's a lot more to this than working out what unit can table that in 80% of ideal scenarios. If a shokka, shoota blob, Kan wall etc makes the Marine player frightened enough of failing saves, it's doing the job of neutralising the threat.

How are TH/SS used? It's mostly from a LR waiting for something expensive to get into range (or else earning its keep by scarecrowing everyone away from a castle) or Deathwing onslaught, AFAIK. I think we can also throw GK into this issue, with the number of 4++/2++ they can pull out.

In the case of Deathwing carnage, it's pretty simple; shoot them with everything you can, as soon as you can. AP2, PK and even Rokkits are handy to get past the command unit's FNP. (This applies to Paladins, as well.)

With a LR full of foaming sledgehammer dudes, it's not so simple. Orks are bad at killing these at range, and whilst they're embarked all the anti-term firepower is wasted. BW spam with Deffrollas aplenty can force them to back up, to a point. Any melee unit that can tip a LR (including Deffrollas) will have to present itself as a charge target first. If you can bait them out and not get in a tarpit with them, then you can start throwing bullets and boyz at them...

If you go after the LR with a boyz wagon, getting the wagon assaulted isn't as bad as it sounds. If the wagon is destroyed, you won't lose that many boyz to the explosion and might even catch a terminator in the blast, and next turn you're assaulting them.

If you go after the LR with a boyz wagon, getting the wagon assaulted isn't as bad as it sounds.

It's really not bad at all. Whether the BW goes down or not, the terminators get charged. This does, however, beg the question "Why did he charge the BW with a terminator squad?"

LRs have enough mobility to get a flank shot on a battlewagon if they are close enough to have launched a terminator charge at all, so why would he bother disembarking? Does he not have any other shooting units able to kill AV12/14? Do you have a KFF handy? This is what we mean by "There is more to it than Throw unit X at Y and win!". Lets assume though, to make another point, that you do have a KFF in effect. This will make him want to take it out in assault to bypass cover. Well, again, why disembark when you have the humble tactical squad (Let alone its better equivalents.) that will do the job about as well on rear AV10, and generally a lot more expendable. Are they all tied up in assault or dead? Are the tacticals more important due to how many bodies are on the board that he has to deal with? Half the board away? What happened to them?

If you want to get terminators from a land raider on foot, you need to either blow up the raider, or you need to make him decide that the best of the bad options is to charge them out, either by really shiny bait or by limiting his options (Unit isolation, or forcing the situation where losing the ATs is less harmful than losing the LR or his other units that are capable of taking out lots of light armored bodies quickly.)

I was assuming that the landraider died due to deff rolla. Other than that, you are, of course, correct.

Do it da orky wayz, here are da simple stepz dat kill dem gitz termiez..

1) Battle Wagon wiff da red paint, to make it go faster.

2) Deffrolla givez dem termiez da crunch wiff d6 str 10 hitz. Rememba dat you tank shock em too.

3) Deploy dem boyz an charge da now pinned stupid umiez and dakka dakka an choppa choppa dem till der good en dead. I like using a 10 meganob squad in dis er scenario but 20 boys will do with a nob wiff a PK.

Nuff said cauz datz how orkz do it to umiez....

While not the most efficient way to kill terminators, I just have to add, that my deff rollas killed a total of 9 terminators last game

I was rolling all a for every tank shock though

Well killin em wiff pie dun always work, but it sure is fun as I got me looted 2 new Imperial Artillery pieces and thats enough pie to kill loads of sneakin termies.

No one has mentioned using Burnas against Th/SS .If you can line up a tasty flame you can easy get 40+hits forcing enough 's or if it too far for a flame assault by passing the 2+.

The downside is that the burna's have a very short range. If you miss, or they mostly survive, you can pretty much guarentees they will beatstick your burna's in their turn, even with your PW attacks, they have a 3++.

azgrim wrote:No one has mentioned using Burnas against Th/SS .If you can line up a tasty flame you can easy get 40+hits forcing enough 's or if it too far for a flame assault by passing the 2+.

totally true, burnas are horrifically offensive against most armies, space marines included, and terminators and TH/SS combos are really just as vulnerable with a little attention.

perfectly complimented by a looted wagon with a skorcha. They can get there pretty quick too as long as they can dismount before they get assaulted!

edit:

Deadshot wrote:The downside is that the burna's have a very short range. If you miss, or they mostly survive, you can pretty much guarentees they will beatstick your burna's in their turn, even with your PW attacks, they have a 3++.

again true, but nonetheless, a great proportion of the unit will be dead, and even if they do then get to jump on you id fancy their chances of matching the remnants of the squad, or at least getting their points back and having earned their way

If the burnas are in a Battlewagon it's much safer to get them into position, and as an added bonus all the templetes can stack on top of one another, so it's very easy to vaporize any unit.

Just a small disagreement on my part: It's true that a regular boyz mob is best to handle terminators, but assaulting may not be the best idea. While you will kill a few, what's left can and probably will kill more orks in retaliation (assuming the squad didn't get wiped) and that mob is going to take fearless wounds. And once you loss furious charge, the rest of the battle is going to be a slow grind fest as you watch the terminators grind down the orks before one of the attack finally offs them. Usually best to just shoot them and scuttle back when they get close until they're a low enough number to safely approach (as unorky as that might be).

"You can never have enough firepower"-Duke Nukem picking up a Laser Gatling in the PS1 game, 'Duke Nukem, Land of the Babes.


You can never have enough shootas and dakka-me, 2 minutes ago.

30 gretchin mob em to deff....den send in da second wave an do it er again.....dis makez dem termie boyz foam at da mouth real bad like...

If I run a LrC, I always run 3x LC 3x TH/SS with FC(as BT)which is decent vs Orks. I think it would be hilarious to tailor vs an Ork that runs several 30 boy squads with the LrC full of 8x LC / FC Terms.

I should always get the charge off as the unit has an effective 20inch charge range, maybe even avoiding the Nob. 32 s5 reroll hit and wound attacks...

I sometimes string out my Boyz so that only a few get into B2B contact with the Terminators. When the wounded models are removed, I take the ones closest to the fray off the board. This pretty much incapacitates them while my Nob Bikerz and Lootas run amok.And when they do get free, hopefully they have been piling-in away from my main force. As for Terminators in a LR, it is almost impossible to deal with other than my Warboss and Nob PKs. And then it sucks when you kick the Terminators out of that hornet's nest.