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I have tones of places were i could put names, motto's, and other writing on the shoulder of my marines but i cant for the life of me do anything that small with a paint brush so i want to know how you guys do it.....

It depends on if you want it to be legible.
If not, then just make some small lines.

Very fine point pens.

maersdet wrote:Very fine point pens.

yep! I did art all over a space marine commander in that way (super fine Sharpie, took like 3 days, but worth it!)

Ill consider a pen or a very fine sharpie . . . . has anyone used a en for those name plates on the sholder pads?

Here, did this a while back:



The three tools I use to the right.
Most "words" are very small lines not real but some could be done well with the finest technical ink pen (middle).

Do you know anyone that makes scale model aircraft?
Spare stencil decals are what I would use.

Some of it you can actually read but you will need a magnifying glass to do so
Prolly won't matter too much that it says " Do Not Step" or some other instructions for the ground crew.

forruner_mercy wrote:It depends on if you want it to be legible.
If not, then just make some small lines.

This, the other way is to practice brush control for a while. It's more beneficial over the sharpie route as it improves not only the writing but highlights, eyes, lenses and little fiddly bits in general. I still use the small lines, but like to lead it off with a slightly larger letter.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Do you know anyone that makes scale model aircraft?
Spare stencil decals are what I would use.

Some of it you can actually read but you will need a magnifying glass to do so
Prolly won't matter too much that it says " Do Not Step" or some other instructions for the ground crew.

Some of the Gundam kits come with them as well. Used one on a dread's combat arm that reads "Do not excesive overuse".

The SoB also come with water transfers containing small text.

For just scribbles I use a tiny Sakura Micron pen, if you want real writing Testors decal paper and the tiny fonts on your word processor will do.

AustonT wrote:For just scribbles I use a tiny Sakura Micron pen, if you want real writing Testors decal paper and the tiny fonts on your word processor will do.

Ditto, Micron Pigma 005. not only for writing, but panel lines on Warjacks, just be carefull I find they can clog up after being used on miniatures...

... doesn't anyone use a paintbrush like me? Seriously it works fine.

I mean, look at the purity seal... it took less than a minute to do that with a Large Washbrush, and I really don't think that I have a steady hand or anything.

I consider micro pens cheating. I don't mind others doing it, but I don't like to myself.

I do dark grey squiggles first, then black squiggles over the top. I like the way it works:

Also, a single big semi-illuminated letter can help.



ps, I need one more vote on that miniature! ;-)

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/282666-.html?m=2

Sakura Pigma micron pens. Archival ink, so no discoloration with age/UV exposure. "True" black, with none of the metallic red gloss that Sharpies can have. Fluid ink, so you have time to erase or tactically smudge writing while wet, as well as allowing it to penetrate crevices smaller than the pen tip. They come in other colors, as well, and several tip sizes - I use my black 005, 03, and 08 for everything from general blacklining to purity seal/scroll text on my marines to checks and dags on my Goffs.

[edit:]

Fifty wrote:Also, a single big semi-illuminated letter can help.

One can't be ninja'd on a point he didn't think to make, but this bears repeating. For Imperial writing - posters, scrolls, and seals - a single, legible letter in a contrasting color can do a lot to convince the viewer that all those subsequent squiggles are, in fact, writing.

Fifty wrote:I consider micro pens cheating. I don't mind others doing it, but I don't like to myself.

I do dark grey squiggles first, then black squiggles over the top. I like the way it works:

Funny, I was reading yesterday that someone out there considers using things like pigments and weathering powders to be "cheating". Not to mention all the dipping threads and arguments!

I've always used a brush myself with good results, though I am interested in getting hold of a good quality micron pen to give that method a go as well. Like everything else, I'm sure it can have some good use and I'm always wanting to add new/more methods to my toolkit.

scipio.au wrote:

Fifty wrote:I consider micro pens cheating. I don't mind others doing it, but I don't like to myself.

I do dark grey squiggles first, then black squiggles over the top. I like the way it works:

Funny, I was reading yesterday that someone out there considers using things like pigments and weathering powders to be "cheating". Not to mention all the dipping threads and arguments!

I've always used a brush myself with good results, though I am interested in getting hold of a good quality micron pen to give that method a go as well. Like everything else, I'm sure it can have some good use and I'm always wanting to add new/more methods to my toolkit.

Painting isn't a competition (unless you enter a painting comp). This attitude is bizarre imho...

Funny the idea of "cheating".

Is a true artist "having the vision" and getting it out there or is it simple technical brilliance in execution?

Saw some postings of painting with fruit pigments and blood (??!!) whatever gets that outcome you want I am game.

If someone can create the paint your own all over miniature decal on the computer I would give it a go since I can still have a hand in how it looks.

Using Gundam decals is pure brilliance, I used a few sisters of battle transfers as well that looked nice.

Hope people don't mind but I have a suggestion
Was thinking that the lines are not very convincing and there are two related reasons for this.

There are tiny spaces between letters and even in some letters, and space between the words, which would mean from a distance if you would barely be able to see any ink at all It would just blur into the surface background

Okay they are minis and sometimes you see them close up but it could be worth just softening the writing down
Just a thought.

An interesting point, Chibi. I actually got curious about this, so I propped a piece of paper with writing on it against a wall and walked as far away from it as I could. The black-white contrast wasn't as stark, but the writing was still distinctly there, as slightly irregular, illegible lines.

It all ties back, I think, to what I might consider the fundamental principle of miniature painting - it won't look right at this scale, so try to make it feel right. Just like we apply unrealistic and out of scale lighting effects to miniatures to make them seem more "real," scribbling on scale parchment gives the impression of writing. Everyone immediately understands that's what it represents, even those that think it through enough to realize how unrealistic it actually is. Softening the writing up a bit (the graying of blacks over distance is a natural effect) would perhaps enhance realism, but if the effect is too subtle, the impression of writing would simply disappear.

That last point I think is the main one Oadie
It is a pay off between realism and what works on a mini, factoring in personal tastes as well.

Unless you get someone else to paint it, there's no such thing as 'cheating', only the final result matters.

For my GK, I typically just use my finest tipped brush and a tiny bit of black paint. Most straight letters are really easy to do. It's stuff like the letter 'S' that's really hard to do.

I do it reaaaaaalllllllyyyyyy carefully with a fine point brush. I'm not a fan of squiggly lines; I do it more like there are line breaks, irregularities in the text, making it look like there are y's and g's that makes funny little waves below the text line.



That's a close-up of how I do really small text. Here's what it looks like a little bit afar:




As for letterings that are big enough to be read, like this:



...the pencil is your friend. Pencil it first, preferably with a mechanical pencil and B/2B graphite. If you make a mistake, you can simply wipe it off. Then, cut the word you want to write in half: in this case the first part of "FLAMMAE" would be FLA, the middle letter is M and the second part would be MAE. I locate the center of the banner, then plant the M right in the middle with the pencil, then write the letters next to it--this way, the letters are center-aligned. After making sure about the pencils, start painting it with black paint (mix a bit of water on it... you'll need fluidity). VOILA!

A decent brush and ink will do it, but a micro pen is the easiest way

Howard A Treesong wrote:Unless you get someone else to paint it, there's no such thing as 'cheating', only the final result matters.

What about when you apply cheat lines

^
I belive the gist of that little quote is that "the end justifies the means". which isn't always the case, but I'd agree on this one, despite preferring the paintbrush myself.

Doesn't really matter to me how you do it, as long as spelling and punctuation are correct!

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:That last point I think is the main one Oadie
It is a pay off between realism and what works on a mini, factoring in personal tastes as well.

I think that a lot of the "rough and ready" methods used by historical gamers actually work better for "realism" than many of the advanced detailing techniques we use. At a distance of 30 or 100 metres, most detail is obscured and people just become more of a blurred undefined mess. How "far" from your eye is a miniature on your desk compared to a person across a carpark or a park? How much can you see on the mini at 2 feet from you compared to the real person at that 20-30 metre equivalent?


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Skippy wrote:A decent brush and ink will do it, but a micro pen is the easiest way

Applying ink with a Paintbrush is fine!

Applying ink with a Pen is cheating!


right?

Ahh, yes, I would say it is NOT cheating to apply with a paintbrush, but it IS to apply with a pen (in my opinion anyway). It just seems a little unfair for the poor guy who's doing it with his brush.

I use a speedball nib pen and acrylic ink. That's the super old-school style of pen that you have to dip into the ink.

If you use the smallest pens you can achieve some seriously tiny lettering. Practice on some parchment before you try it on the model.

Edit: response to people who say it's "cheating" to use a pen. It's not cheating to use a nib pen. You can get a VERY fine line with a nib but it does take a little practice. Ultimately I think it's easier than using a brush once you master the skill.

Since no one is getting swindled by the use of pens or losing in anyway, it is nonsensical to call the use of pens cheating.