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I could not find a thread on this top so I decided to create one. I know that there are more then a few of us on the forums that play the RPG Series. Be it Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, or Black Crusade. This is to be a thread where people can post their creations and get feedback. Please indicate which book a character is from and what your direction is with him or her.

BLACK CRUSADE



Character Name: Khremzzeek
Archetype: Forsaken
Rank: 5
Pride: Beauty Disgrace: Regret Motivation: Narcissist
Description: KILLS 97

CHARACTERISTICS

BASE (WS){62} 52(S) (BS)39 (S)[110]55(T) (T)[88]48 (Ag)46 (Int)44 (Per)38 (WP)41(I) (Fel)39 (INF)54
FRENZY (WS){72} 62(S) (BS)19 (S)[120]65(T) (T)[98]58 (Ag)46 (Int)24 (Per)38 (WP)51(I) (Fel)39 (INF)54

SKILLS
Acrobatics: Trained
Athletics: +10
Awarness: Trained
Command: Trained
Commmon Lore;
War: Trained
Dodge: Trained
Forbidden Lore;
Adeptus Astartes: Trained
Horus Heresy: Trained
Long War: Trained
Inqiry: Trained
Linguistics;
Low Gothic: Trained
Navigation;
Surface; Trained
Operate;
Aeronautica: Trained
Surface: Trained
Parry: +10
Security: Trained
Survival: +10


Talents & Traits:
AMBIDEXTROUS, AMPHIBIOUS, BATTLE RAGE, BERZERKER CHARGE, BLADE DANCER, BLADE MASTER, BULGING BICEPS, FLESH RENDER, FRENZY, KILLING STRIKE, LEGION WEAPON TRAINING, LIGHTNING ATTACK, LIGHTNING REFLEXES, NERVES OF STEEL, PITY THE WEAK, QUICK DRAW, RESISTANCE (C,H,P), STREET FIGHTER, THUNDER CHARGE, TWO WEAPON FIGHTER(MELEE), UNARMED WARRIOR


Weapons:
Name: Legionnaire Bolt Pistol
Class: PISTOL Damage: 1D10+4 Type: EXPLODE Pen: 4
Range: 30M ROF: S/2/- Clip: 14 RLD: FULL
Special Rules: TEARING [Damage Range 5-14]
Quality: Good (+5 BS)

Name: Legionnaire Chainsword
Class: MELEE Damage: 1D10+3+(11S) Type: RENDING Pen: 3
Range: MELEE ROF: N/A Clip: N/A RLD: N/A
Special Rules: DUALIST GRIP, MAGLOCK, BALANCED, TEARING [Damage Range 15-24]
Quality: Good (+5 WS)

Name: Legionnaire Shotgun
Class: BASIC Damage: 1D10+6 Type: IMPACT Pen: 0
Range: 30M ROF: S/2/- Clip: 10 RLD: 2 FULL
Special Rules: RELIABLE, SCATTER [Damage Range 7-16]
Quality: Good (+5 BS)

Name: KHORNE TAIL
Class: MELEE Damage: 1D10+(11S) Type: IMPACT Pen: 0
Range: Melee ROF: N/A Clip: N/A RLD: N/A
Special Rules: TOXIC(0) [Damage Range 12-21]

Name: Betcher's Gland Acid
Class: Prim Damage: 1D5 Type: Acid Pen: 4
Range: 3M ROF: Clip: RLD:
Special Rules: If you hit your target by 3 or more Degrees of Success, you have blinded them for 1D5 Rounds.

Name: Legionnaire Combat Knife
Class: Melee Damage: 1D10+(11S) Type: RENDING Pen: 2
Range: Melee ROF: N/A Clip: N/A RLD: N/A
Special Rules:NONE [Damage Range 12-21]
Quality: Good (+5 WS)

Name: FISTS
Class: MELEE Damage: 1D10+(11S)+(1GAUNTLET) Type: IMPACT Pen: 2
Range: MELEE ROF: N/A Clip: N/A RLD: N/A
Special Rules: NATURAL WEAPON, PRIMITIVE (7) [Damage Range 13-19]

ARMOUR:
HEAD: (08), RIGHT ARM: (10), LEFT ARM: (08), BODY: (12), RIGHT LEG: (08), LEFT LEG: (08)

Movement: Half(05)[10] Full(10)[20] Charge(15)[30] Run(30)[60]

GEAR:
1x bolter mag, 11 SKULLS, 1 RAT OGRE SKULL, 19 Genestealer Skulls, 1 Lichtor Skull, JUMP PACK, Combat Shield

Wounds: Total(16) Current( )
Critical Damage:
Mental disorders:

Infamy Points: Total(24Base + 30Mission) Current(54)

Corruption: Current(20)

Gifts of the Gods
(KHORNE) TAIL
(KHORNE) DAEMON WEAPON

Experience: TOTAL: 11395 Total Spent: 11300 Total left unspent: 95

ADVANCEMENTS AND ALIGNMENT!!
ADVANCEMENT COST ALIGNMENT
AMPHIBIOUS 000

WEAPON SKILL (SIMPLE) 200 UNALIGNED
STRENGTH (iNTERM) 350 KHORNEx2
WILLPOWER (INTERM) 1250 TZEENTCH x2

ACROBATICS 200 SLAANESH
ATHLETICS +10 300 KHORNEx2
AWARENESS 100 UNALIGNED
COMMAND 200 KHORNE
COMMON LORE: WAR 100 UNALIGNED
DODGE 100 SLAANESH
FORBIDDEN LORE: A.A. 100 TZEENTCH
FORBIDDEN LORE: H.H. 100 TZEENTCH
FORBIDDEN LORE: LONG WAR 100 TZEENTCH
LINGUISTIC: LOW GOTHIC 100 UNALIGNED
NAVIGATION: SURFACE 100 UNALIGNED
OPERATION: AERONATICA 200 KHORNE
OPERATION: SURFACE 100 UNALIGNED
PARRY +10 300 KHORNEx2
SECURITY 200 UNALIGNED
SURVIVAL +10 400 NURGLE

AMBIDEXTROUS 100 UNALIGNED
BATTLE RAGE 300 KHORNE
BERZERKER CHARGE 250 KHORNE
BLADE DANCER 750 UNALIGNED
BLADE MASTER 400 KHORNE
BLIND-FIGHT 200 TZEENTCH
BULGING BICEPS 100 NURGLE
COLD HEARTED 200 UNALIGNED
FLESH RENDER 250 KHORNE
FRENZY 250 KHORNE
HATRED (IMPERIAL){APPLIED} 200 KHORNE
HEIGHTENED SENSES: HEARING 100 TZEENTCH
HEIGHTENED SENSES: SIGHT 100 TZEENTCH
JADED 200 NURGLE
KILLING STRIKE 300 KHORNE
LEGION WEAPON TRAINING 100 UNALIGNED
LIGHTNING ATTACK 400 KHORNE
LIGHTNING REFLEXES 500 SLAANESH
NERVES OF STEEL 100 NURGLE
PITY THE WEAK 250 KHORNE
QUICK DRAW 100 UNALIGNED
RESISTANCE: COLD 100 NURGLE
RESISTANCE: HEAT 100 NURGLE
RESISTANCE: POISON 100 NURGLE
STREET FIGHTER 250 KHORNE
SWIFT ATTACK 300 KHORNE
THUNDER CHARGE 400 KHORNE
TWO WEAPON WIELDER (MELEE) 500 UNALIGNED
UNARMED WARRIOR KHORNE

TOTAL ALIGNMENT ADVANCES
KHORNE: (20)
NURGLE: (08)
SLAANESH: (03)
TZEENTCH: (08)
UNALIGNED: (14)

CURRENT ALIGNMENT: KHORNE

POWER ARMOUR TRAITS:
AUTO-SENSES, POWER-PLANT, IMPROVED PLATING

SPACE MARINE ABILITIES:
Secondary Heart/Ossmodula/Biscopea/Haemastamen, Larraman's Organ, Catalepsean Node, Preomnor, Omophagea, Multi-Lung, Occulube and Lyman's Ear, Sus-an Membrane, Oolotic Kidney, Neuroglottis, Mucranoid, Betcher's Gland, Prognoids, Black Carapace

There's a 40k RPG? the hell?

Joey wrote:There's a 40k RPG? the hell?

Four, actually.

Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch and now Black Crusade for Chaos players.

I'm supposed to be playing as an Ork Burna boy in Feb.

I have yet to see the books. They seem to sell quickly around here.

I've got a char for each, though the DH chars we've built but haven't played, and my Master Helmsman Void Master's been in play for quite a long time now. Only played a short into session after building the BC chars and really, really looking forward to playing my traitor guardsman properly. Unfortunately our DW game just goes from fight to fight.

I can post stats when I'm not trying to drag my arse off to work but I'm far more interested in concepts that crunching numbers.

But my RT's background can be found here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/360246.page

Some NPC/PC characters I, as the GM, use for driving plots and keeping the party in line in our DH game.

DARK HERESY/ASCENSION

Name: Ariasai "Sai" Mal
Role: Assassin -> Vindicare Assassin
Rank: 12
Place of Origin: Gunmetal City, Scintilla
Gender: Female
Ht: 1.52m (5') Wt: 225kg (chassis; appears 50kg) Hair: Black (short) Eyes: Blue (Augmetic Optics)

Traits: Hive-born: Wary, Caves of Steel, Accustomed to Crowds
Ascended Traits: The Art of Death, Temple Assassin, Killing Sprint
Cyborg Traits: Machine (2), Cannot Swim, Cannot be healed by Medicae, Always considered Lightly Wounded for purposes of healing, Regenerates 2W\day

Quirks: Obvious Cyborg (Full Cybernetic Resurrection)

Stats
WS: 60
BS: 68
S: 49
T: 45 (x2)
AGI: 40 (x2)
INT: 36 (x2)
PER: 59
WP: 64
FEL: 12

Skills
Awareness +10, Concealment +30, Contortionist (Mastery), Inquiry +10, Intimidate +10, Logic, Scale Surface (Mastery), Scrutiny, Search +10, Silent Move +20, Speak: Low Gothic, Literacy, Drive: Ground Vehicles +20, Pilot: Civilian +20, Pilot: Military +10, Acrobatics (Mastery), Security +20, Shadowing +20, Tracking +20, Surface Navigation, Common Lore: Criminal +10, Drive: Hover, Secret Language: Acolyte, Tech-Use +10, Ciphers: Acolyte, Drive: Walker, Common Lore: Tech +10

Talents
Melee Weapons: Primitive/Shock/Power/Chain
Basic Weapons: Paragon Mastery
Pistol Weapons: Paragon Mastery
Heavy Weapons: SP/Flame/Melta/Las/Plasma/Bolt
Exotic Weapons: Web/Needle/Needle Rifle/Exitus Rifle/Exitus Pistol

Ambidextrous, Counter-Attack, Unnatural Agility (x2), Unnatural Toughness (x2), Unnatural Intelligence (x2), Peerless Marksman, Catfall, Sound Constitution IX, Lightning Attack, Two-Weapon Melee, Two-Weapon Ballistic, Double Team, Rapid Reload, Jaded, Lightning Reflexes, Quick Draw, Leap Up, Blademaster, Hip Shooting, Rapid Reaction, Sure Strike, Furious Assault, Dual Shot, Step Aside, Fearless, Target Selection, Unarmed Warrior, Mechadendrite Use**: Utility, Optical, Ballistic, Mechanicus Implants**, ElectroGraft Use**, Autosanguine**, Pro-Sanguine**, Chem-Geld**, Resistance (Cold)**, Resistance (Fear)**, Resistance (Toxins)**, Iron Jaw**, Dark Sight**, Heightened Sense: Sight**, Heightened Sense: Hearing**, Heightened Reactions, The Flesh Is Weak 1**

** denotes advances available from her cybernetic reconstruction, should she somehow lose this body, she loses these advances

Augmetics
(All are Best Quality, unless otherwise noted)
Arms (2)
Locomotive Unit
Bionic Respiratory System
Cortex Unit (Cybertronic Brain, +10 to Logic Tests, destruction of this unit destroys her)
Auspex Array
Cybernetic Sight
Cybernetic Audio
Toxin Analyzer (Common Quality, replaces her tongue, she is incapable of tasting)
Mind-Impulse Unit
Vehicle Interface Circuitry
Ballistic Mechadendrite w/ digi-melta
Utility Mechadendrite w/ multi-key
Optical Mechadendrite
Bodyplating (+3 AP) (Common Quality)
Stummer Implants (Common Quality)
Climbing Apparatus (Implanted in her waistline, 100m cable, can Ascend at Full Move, Descend at x2 Full Move)
Mechanicus Implants
Potentia Coil power unit
Cybermantle
Electrograft
Thermoptic Camouflage Field Unit (Grants -20 PER tests to enemies, foils electronic auspex systems, lasts 30 seconds, requires 30 minute recharge cycle)
Vox-caster Unit (Common Quality)

Weapons
MP LascannonHeavy Las, 5d10+12E, Pen10, 300m, S, 10, Full, MIU/Suspensor
Exitus Rifle Basic Rifle, 2d10+4, Pen9, 200m, S, 10, Half, Silencer/MIU
Exitus Pistol Pistol SP, 2d10+4I, Pen9, 30m, S/3, 5, Half, Silencer/MIU
Compact Stormbolter (Concealed, built into her right arm) Basic Bolt, 1d10+7X, Pen4, 45m, S/2/4, 30, Full, Compact/Best Quality/MIU
Chainfist (Built into her left arm) Melee Chain, 1d10+9E Pen 10, Power Field/Tearing/x2 STR Bonus (With this weapon deployed, she cannot use any 2-handed weapon and may not use her left hand for anything other than attacking)
Digi-Melta Mechadendrite Pistol Melta, 2d10+6E, Pen 12, 3m, S, 1, 1d5 hours, MIU/Concealed

Other Gear
Armored Bodyglove (AP 3, covers her torso only)
1 vial of sacred machine oil
10 Nutrient Wafers
Light Tactical Rig
Vindicare Spymask
Vindicare Stealth Suit
Toolkit (Tech)
Toolkit (Security)
Small black backpack


**********
Name: Exanami Sun (NPC)
Role: Assassin -> Interrogator -> Inquisitor
Rank: 16
Place of Origin: Nuwon (Imperial Feudal World, Segmentum Obscuras)
Gender: Female
Ht: 1.65m (6ft5in) Wt: 75kg (165#) Hair: Black (short) Eyes: Green
Traits: Friends in High Places
Imperial World: Blessed Ignorance, Hagiography, Liturgical Familiarity, Superior Origins
Quirks: Always smells faintly of jasmine

Stats
WS: 69
BS: 73
S: 59
T: 54 (x2)
AGI: 63 (x2)
INT: 65
PER: 58
WP: 65
FEL: 70

Influence: 60 (40)

Skills
Awareness +20, Barter +10, Carouse +20, Charm +20, Contortionist (Mastery), Deceive +20, Disguise +20, Dodge (Mastery), Evaluate, Gamble, , Intimidate +20, Logic, Scale Surface (Mastery), Scrutiny (Mastery), Scale Surface (Mastery), Swim +10, Investigation (Mastery), Secret Language: Throne Agent, Observation (Mastery), Stealth (Mastery), Shadow Craft (Mastery), Driving (Mastery), Literacy +20, Speak Language: High Gothic +20, Speak Language: Low Gothic +20, Speak Language: Low Gothic (Nuwonian dialect) +20, Common Lore (Mastery), Pilot: Civilian, Acrobatics (Mastery), Tracking +20, Pilot: Military, Forbidden Lore: Cults +10, Forbidden Lore: Psyker +10, Command +10, Lip-Reading: +20, Trade: Concubine +20

Talents
Melee Weapons: Expertise
Basic Weapons: Expertise
Pistol Weapons: Expertise
Thrown Weapons: Primitive/Shock/Chain/Power
Heavy Weapons: Launcher/Melta/Plasma
Exotic Weapons: Digital/Needler/Needle Rifle/Web

Indomitable Will of the Inquisition, Conviction is Strength, Favored by Fate, Sound Constitution XI, Catfall, Sure Strike, Heightened Sense: Sight, Heightened Sense: Hearing, Two-Weapon Melee, Two-Weapon Ballistic, Fearless, Resist: Psychic, Hard Target, Crippling Strike, Disarm, Leap Up, Rapid Reaction, Blind Fighting, Step Aside, Nerves of Steel, Deflect Shot, Target Selection, Unarmed Master, Unnatural Agility (x2), Unnatural Toughness (x2)

Influence Talents
Peer: Inquisition
Good Reputation: Inquisition
Acolyte Network
Peer: Underworld
Enemy: Aramacham Technologies Combine

Paragon Talents
Gunfighter Saint
Peerless Marksman
Blademaster
Heightened Reactions
Death Blow
Storm of Blows

Weapons
Powerswords (2) Melee Power, 1d10+12E, Pen6, Power Field/Balanced/Best Quality
Ceres-pattern Boltpistol (2) Pistol Bolt, 1d10+7X, Pen 4, 30m, S, 8, Full, Tearing/Red-dot sight
Cadian-pattern Hellgun Basic Las, 1d10+6E, Pen 7, 50m, S/3, 150m, Full, Backpack Ammo/Targeter
Digi-laser Ring Pistol Las, 1d10+3E, Pen 7, 3m, S, 1, 1d5 hours, Reliable

Other Gear
The Pious Rose, Sword-class Frigate
Inquisitorial Rosette
Excruciator Kit
Synskin Bodyglove
Cameloline Cloak
Light Power Armor
Personal Cogitator
Security Toolkit
Drop-Harness
Microbead

We've just finished, literally tonight, a DH campaign and, as a rather nice twist, we had to fight our new Black Crusade party at the end as it turned out they were responsible for all the problems on the planet. Nice handover to our BC characters for the next campaign in the new year.

Character I was playing as was, as per my forum name, one 'Sparks' Havelock, a Krieg Korpsman with a penchant towards head shotting anything that moved whilst toting either his Hellpistol or Stub Revolver. Very good at it too, especially with the autocannon he picked up & carted around for half the campaign. Did 3 campaigns as 'Sparks' but now its all about my, as yet unnamed, Slaaneshi Apostate who has a courtesan/spy minion in tow - I'm eagerly looking forward to our shift from a combat based campaign to an intrigue/subtlety based Chaos one.

hpred, please tell me this is what the character in the first post looks like:

Dark Heresy:
Alistair Blackadder
Guardsmen, 9th Scotia "Black Watch"
Imperial Shrine World, Scotia
Expert Shot
Ace Pilot
Second in Command
Quasi-Idiotic (Lowest Intelligence score in the group )
Gear: Hellgun, Cyber-mastiff, Chainsword, Carapace Armor, ect.

Rouge Trader
Grigorio Hurr
Navigator
Voidborn, Hurr Family Migrant Fleet
Exceptional Navigator
Bloated (Mutation)
Only survivor of the King's Burden disaster
Complete Egotist

Platuan4th wrote:hpred, please tell me this is what the character in the first post looks like:

I used a variant of his name as I am a Transformer's fan, but no, he does not look like little Kremzeek from the Generation 1 series.

It's hard to say because BC's only just come out and we haven't had a chance to play for any appreciable time though, but does it seem overpowered to anyone?

My starting character, a human, is more powerful than my RT char or DW char that have been in play for some time. Or almost as powerful, I think (like, I can get something like 92 on my Weapon Skill when I charge as a starting mortal character).

But there's not as much in the way of advancements and so on to buy.

Do you think it's just because BC is designed as a shorter campaign length game, they've allowed starting chars to be more powerful cos they won't be in play long enough to get to the high levels otherwise?

It's because most of your advances are not based around your personal stats, skills and talents, but Gifts from your patron Powers.

http://youtu.be/RcTyJ_LLWZ4

Khremzeek in action for our Black Crusade campaign! Always leading the way in kills & Skulls for the Throne!

I made a list of what I would like to get for Khremzzeek as he progresses down the path of Khorne in our Black Crusade RPG. Anybody see anything that I should consider switch around for advancements?

01 COMBAT MASTER 300xp,
02 RAPTOR 750xp,
03 PARRY +20 ?00xp,
04 COUNTER ATTACK 500xp,
05 STEP ASIDE 750xp,
06 PARRY +30 ?00xp,
07 OPERATION: AERONATICA +10 ?00xp,
08 OPERATION: AERONATICA +20 ?00xp,
09 OPERATION: AERONATICA +30 ?00xp,
10 AGILITY +5 250xp,
13 BLOOD GOD'S CONTEMPT 400xp,
14 ASSASSIN STRIKE1000xp,
15 FURIOUS ASSAULT 300xp,
16 WHIRLWHIND OF DEATH 300xp,
17 DOUBLE TEAM 250xp,
18 SURE STRIKE 500xp,
19 PRECISE BLOW 750xp,
20 STRENGTH +15 ?00xp,
21 STRENGTH +20 ?00xp,
22 PERNATURAL SPEED 1000xp,
23 UNARMED MASTER 400xp,
24 WEAPON SKILL +10 500xp,
25 WEAPON SKILL +15 ?00xp,
26 WEAPON SKILL +20 ?00xp,
27 FEARLESS 750xp,
28 CRUSHING BLOW 400xp,
29 HAMMER BLOW 400xp,
30 ATHLETICS +20 ?00xp,
31 ATHLETICS +30 ?00xp

I'll post up my chars on Monday when I got a day off (just finished writing a background for my BC char).

I'm obscenely pleased that I now have a char in each genre, though I don't think the DW game will survive into the new year.

CadianCommander wrote:I'll post up my chars on Monday when I got a day off (just finished writing a background for my BC char).

I'm obscenely pleased that I now have a char in each genre, though I don't think the DW game will survive into the new year.

I can't wait to see what you have cooked up.

Well, so much for that. Got home late last night from my weekend holiday, sunburned and tired, turned on my computer and it won't switch on (I'm currently on my b/f's pooter).

So as all my files and stuff are on my machine, I won't be able to post up until it's fixed. Great.

Day off without my computer. I'm gonna go find Murphy and kick him inna teeth.

Black Crusade bothers me, lol. Playing Chaos on the tabletop because they have fun looking models and it's funny to yell nonsense like "Blood for the Blood God" is one thing. But it's downright disturbing that Fantasy Flight creates an RPG setting where the players are specifically deranged sociopaths and then creates a ruleset for them to enact such things. The worst part is, it deliberately leaves out some of the more obvious ways to gain corruption ( like being a deranged murderer and butcher). So it's two fold. A bizarre and somewhat troubling concept for a game, and then it doesn't even end up at least being committed to being a decent representation of such a game.

There was a reason the 40K RPG took twenty years to be a reality even though people clamored for it ever since the first edition of WHFRP. It's not a great setting for roleplaying since the universe is homogenous and oppressive, and lacks a lot of the open society that gives players possibilities to explore. Though they've done a fairly decent job with it once they finally nailed down how to make it feasible by making the players all Inquisitorial henchmen, which works in a "Call of Cthulu" style of play where the players have the ability and authority to investigate weird stuff on a variety of worlds and then get eaten by it. And Deathwatch gives players a one dimensional way to enact all their Spess Mahreen fantasies in a manner that makes Spess Mahreens as awesome as they are supposed to be. I can't see a serious campaign of Deathwatch lasting very long, but hey, screw it, let's go kill something with a stormbolter. Rogue Trader has some potential if you're willing to be canon flexible or really, really creative.

But Black Crusade... I mean, I get it. People are tempted by Chaos specifically because the Imperium is so oppressive. Chaos can offer people on some of the drearier worlds a glimmer of hope for something better. The problem is, that glimmer turns out to be a filthy, filthy lie, and Chaos is utterly deceptive and depraved. There's a reason why there's no Chaos God of Angst and Frustration, lol. Though, perhaps that would make some amusing fanfic and art. Maybe somebody from /tg/ is reading this. There is a lot of gray in the moral coloring of 40K, and not much white. But Chaos is always black. And it seems that encouraging players to be irredeemably evil and dedicated to the overthrow of the only real hope humanity has of survival in the 40K galaxy (that hope being solidarity) is a bit bizarre. And well, if that's not the way you're playing your games of Black Crusade, it doesn't really seem like you're playing in the 40K universe at all, haha.

I can't disagree more.

Ever played in an evil D&D party? Or played the Sabbat in WoD? This is really no different to that.

Evil is a matter of perspective. I found it surprisingly easy to write up a very altruistic cultist with the best intentions and damn good reasons to go against the Imperium; fight the good fight against the oppressors kinda thing. RPing the "bad guys" is simply a way of seeing the other side of the coin.

That said, it is NOT a game for inexperienced gamers or immature gamers. Also, unlike the others, BC more than other has a very clear set life expectancy.

And now my laptop is working, I can upload that background and those characters soon (but by soon, I mean maybe tonight, or in the next few days).

CadianCommander wrote:I can't disagree more.

Ever played in an evil D&D party? Or played the Sabbat in WoD? This is really no different to that.

Evil is a matter of perspective. I found it surprisingly easy to write up a very altruistic cultist with the best intentions and damn good reasons to go against the Imperium; fight the good fight against the oppressors kinda thing. RPing the "bad guys" is simply a way of seeing the other side of the coin.

That said, it is NOT a game for inexperienced gamers or immature gamers. Also, unlike the others, BC more than other has a very clear set life expectancy.

And now my laptop is working, I can upload that background and those characters soon (but by soon, I mean maybe tonight, or in the next few days).

Can't wait to see them CadianCommander.

CadianCommander wrote:I can't disagree more.

Ever played in an evil D&D party? Or played the Sabbat in WoD? This is really no different to that.

Nope. The WoD games attract a very specific demographic of players that, well... yeah. I'll just leave it at that.

Evil is a matter of perspective.

Actually, it isn't really. At least from an ethics/morality perspective, but I'll roll with you on this because I know what you are trying to say.

I found it surprisingly easy to write up a very altruistic cultist with the best intentions and damn good reasons to go against the Imperium; fight the good fight against the oppressors kinda thing. RPing the "bad guys" is simply a way of seeing the other side of the coin.

That said, it is NOT a game for inexperienced gamers or immature gamers. Also, unlike the others, BC more than other has a very clear set life expectancy.

They had radicals in Dark Heresy. Black Crusade is something entirely different. There's a common phrase about good intentions. And sure, you can use Black Crusade to tell a story about the tragic fall of characters who didn't know what they were getting into. But you didn't need Black Crusade for that. That could have been done in Dark Heresy too. No, Black Crusade is very specifically about being deranged sociopathic killers. Hence why, in the first pages of the book where they explain the game and what an RPG is, there's a picture of a World Eater, ready with all the best intentions and damn good reasons that dual chain axes can impart. One of the game's sample characters is a Khorne Berzerker... You gain infamy and corruption by (examples from the book) nailing people to the gates of burning churches and wiping out populations with disease.

World-Eaters don't wipe people out with disease. That's a Plaguemarine's task.

You've obviously only skimmed the book and looked at the pictures to base your opinion on it. You can, very easily, make a Black Crusade character who is, in the beginning, someone quite altruistic in his intentions, desiring to overthrow a tyrannical Planetary Governor and improve the lot of the toiling masses of peasants.

Such things are, of course, meat and drink to great Tzeentch, the Lord of Change.

Radicals in DH are a different deal, because these are people who move with the authority of the Inquisition, and employ the weapons of the Xeno and the Heretic in order to destroy the Xeno and the Heretic. In Black Crusade, the Inquisition is almost entirely the enemy... at the very least, you will have a very tenuous relationship with a random Radical Inquisitor and his retinue... at least to a point.

And, yes, being an absolutely evil bastard will gain you both Infamy and Corruption, not specifically because of the actions themselves, but because of the reactions they cause in the average Imperial citizen. It will also make you infamous, because, yes, these are the sorts of things that evil bastards do, which attract other evil bastards to their banner.

Black Crusade is about being deranged, sociopathic killers as much as playing a Dark Eldar army is about being a deranged, sociopathic killer Space Elf with a sado-masochism fetish.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:No, Black Crusade is very specifically about being deranged sociopathic killers.

Thank you very much for informing us of this. I'll let the rest of my group, who have admittedly been basing our strategy on stealth, cunning, deception, deceit & bribery to subvert Imperial control over the planet, know that we're going about it the wrong way. I shall instantly scrub my extremely charismatic apostate of Slaanesh and his alluring spy-concubine minion and roll up a Khorne berserker.

I'm sorry but roleplaying is about using your imagination. Rulebooks, statistics and so on are just aides, guidelines for a gamesmaster & the players to navigate a universe with some structure to it. Just because the examples in the book might be the blindingly obvious, cliché ways people without much imagination might assume Chaos go about subverting Imperial control doesn't mean you can't do it the clever way. If the rules lean more towards rewarding killing people, defiling Ecclesiarchy territory etc and you want it to reward stealth, deceit, cunning and avoiding violence* then you can do it. What the Black Crusade rulebook does is give you the structure for the RP, the tools Chaos characters will need to do the job, rest is up to the GM & group.

*Our GM is penalising us if we have too many fights to avoid it being common-place - more we fight, the more attention we draw to ourselves - we will gain corruption & infamy by building up cults and bringing important members of the nobility/government under the sway of Chaos, but lose it if our Cults & contacts are exposed by us drawing too much attention. Also if we really start drawing attention then the Inquisition may turn up.

Nope. The WoD games attract a very specific demographic of players that, well... yeah. I'll just leave it at that.

Well, there are a lot of games, not just Evil D&D chars and Sabbat where you can play the flip side of the coin. It's common place, and gives a different perspective. As for the WoD comment. Whatevs. Almost every gamer I know has or does play WoD, and almost every 40k player I know plays RPGs. I don't play WoD tabletop simply because I don't like the mechanics. I play one LARP, and that's Mage (not vampire anymore, or changeling, or werewolf) does that make me.... 'a very specific demographic' that I like getting out there and socialising and roleplaying with thirty other people in a well run, well structured game?

As a couple people have said, it really does look like you've only skimmed it. The 'darker' games are never for inexperienced or newer roleplayers, they do take a certain amount of maturity and a level head. FF have allowed for you not just going around being sadistically evil and killing stuff. As Spark_Havelock said, a good GM will punish abuse, just like they can in RT, DH and DW

It seems more like you have a personal problem with BC and being the bad guys. You know what? That's fine. Just don't sugar coat it up and hide it behind excuses that the game shouldn't be an rpg. I've known quite a few people who don't play a certain game because it makes them uncomfortable for personal reasons, sometimes it's a religious reason, other times it's because the game is too dark. You know what? They never try to say others shouldn't play it or deride the game, accept it for what it is, realise it's not for them, and move on.

I'm just saying that your versions of BC aren't what the game is, in very specific language, advocating. I agree that you can have more mature RPGs. Not everything needs to be about good guys and elves. But it sounds like you guys aren't even actually playing Black Crusade, but instead adapting it to some kind of canon-flexible version of Warhammer YourtyK. I mean, of course the Chaos Cults are going to be operating surreptitiously, trying to remain outside of notice so as to not be executed for heresy. That's just common sense. But there's the common, irrefutable truth of the 40K universe that dabbling in Chaos leads to bloodshed and slaughter. I mean, so eventually the one guy's group subverts Imperial control and wrests the planet away from the Imperium? What happens next? Well, either Daemons, or Exterminatus, or full scale invasion. Or any combination of the three. Even if you're not going at it, chain-axe in hand (that's just the most obvious example), Black Crusade is all about being, or becoming, a deranged sociopath responsible for the deaths of the innocent. It isn't about my level of comfort or discomfort with such ideas. It's just a very odd game to play and a very bizarre one for a company to have actually published for the same reasons most games hand wave away the physiological differences between men and women, or games like Deadlands hand waved away slavery, or Shadowrun hand waved away color based racism. But, I never said it shocked me that it attracts a demographic of players. I'm sure there were people who house ruled slavery right back into Deadlands.

I think perhaps you should take your own advice and accept that even if I think the game is a bit off and playing it as written is somewhat off as well, that you can still play it and move on. However, I'd dismount from your horse if you think for a second you have significantly more RPG experience than I do.

World-Eaters don't wipe people out with disease. That's a Plaguemarine's task.

I never said anything of the sort. Try reading next time. It will help you out immensely. As far as how the Radicals are written in Dark Heresy, it's just as easy to adapt their character types to the kind of game you suggest, without creating an entirely new game that also encourages players to be the malicious rapers of planets. I mean, everything in 40K is in a moral gray area and I'm hardly concerned with how Kant would view my daily activities. But there's a pretty stark contrast between the Space Marine who ignores the plight of the peasants in order to achieve the more utilitarian goal of saving a planet from Chaos, and the Chaos cultist, whose ultimate goal is to subvert an entire planet to the whims of the dark gods. We're not talking about simple secessionists here, unhappy with the oppressive Imperial Cult or poverty forced on them by excessive taxation. This isn't like trying wrest control of the planet away to join the Tau empire because you believe their propaganda about the Greater Good.

The way you're describing Chaos isn't even like the way 15/20 year veterans describe it to me. So...who are you to dictate what is and isn't a legitimate view of the 40k universe when the creators encourage personal view and adaption within certain bounds? It really does sound to me like you're going to be very "I'm right and everyone else is wrong". The daemonisation of chaos as evil bad guys is because most of us play Imperials, same way as any army will daemonise the foe. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying Chaos are misunderstood fluffy bunnies who want to be friends. But let's be honest, the Imperium isn't that much better. If you believe it's not, tell that to the psykers on the black ships, or the 15yo kid on the battlefield executed by a commissar for cowardice.

I've also played Deadlands where slavery was a very big part of the backdrop to the game. It's up to the GM what they do and don't include and how far and how much their players can handle.

BC has been out for like five minutes and hardly anyone has described their campaigns, which have been going at best for a couple months. Yet you're making grand sweeping assumptions.

I'm really not interested in this d-waving "I'm a more experienced gamer than you" competition you seem to be perpetuating and it was something I never insuated but used my own personal prior experience and exposure to back up my points and arguments.

This thread is about our characters, what we're doing with them, what we're trying.

Let's keep it to that because it was fun before you came along and started telling us we weren't playing canon 40k and one of our favourite games is wrong.

You cried about me voicing my opinion about Black Crusade. If it wasn't fun, that's your fault not mine, lol. And you were the one suggesting I wasn't an experienced enough gamer to know the difference. I wasn't waving anything around. I was just chopping yours off.

But yeah, it's pretty easy to demonize a group of people when then consort with demons. Might say they do it to themselves. The Imperium are oppressive dickbags because, well there's a lot of really nasty stuff out there. They saw what happened when Chaos isn't kept in check. It tore the galaxy apart and killed billions, even corrupted half of the Space Marines. People who say "Oh, but the Imperium are bad guys too" are the ones who don't understand the setting. Their methods are heavy handed and morally questionable. But the alternative is Chaos, death, possession, and ruin. Yeah, the Imperium is much better. But I've played across the factions in two major games (Fantasy and 40K). This isn't about being biased towards "my" faction (as if I have any relation to any of these armies). It's just an honest assessment of the canon. There are varying degrees of good, but Chaos is always evil. And if you're playing a character that worships one of the Chaos powers, then you're dedicated to a greater power whose only objective is the destruction or subjugation of the known universe. Any other way you're playing Black Crusade isn't actually Black Crusade at all. But, like you said, the game is up to your interpretation. Nobody is going to kick down your door and say you're doing it wrong and steal your dice. I just think, as written, the product FFG put out is pretty sketchy. Like I said, best to take your own advice.

BC is my favourite game. When on earth did I say I didn't enjoy it?

Daemon in and of itself is a relative term. Maybe research your historical theology.

You don't like the game. We get it. I really don't give a toss that you think "we're all not playing canon and doing it wrong" whatevs. If that's what you think, why are you even bothering us on this thread whilst we're trying to have fun and share our enthusiasm?

All this thread is for is comparing PCs and squeeing about them without the eye-rolling, oh no not another campaign war story.

If you don't like FF and think they're sketchy, again, why are you piddling all over this thread?

Unless of course you're just one of those people who likes sitting under bridges eating billy goats.....

Veteran Sergeant wrote:You cried about me voicing my opinion about Black Crusade. If it wasn't fun, that's your fault not mine, lol. And you were the one suggesting I wasn't an experienced enough gamer to know the difference. I wasn't waving anything around. I was just chopping yours off.

So now that you've done that, how about you move on and let the thread get back on topic?

If you really want to discuss the morality of an RPG that allows you to play evil characters, feel free to start a separate thread on it.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:There was a reason the 40K RPG took twenty years to be a reality even though people clamored for it ever since the first edition of WHFRP. It's not a great setting for roleplaying since the universe is homogenous and oppressive, and lacks a lot of the open society that gives players possibilities to explore. Though they've done a fairly decent job with it once they finally nailed down how to make it feasible by making the players all Inquisitorial henchmen, which works in a "Call of Cthulu" style of play where the players have the ability and authority to investigate weird stuff on a variety of worlds and then get eaten by it. And Deathwatch gives players a one dimensional way to enact all their Spess Mahreen fantasies in a manner that makes Spess Mahreens as awesome as they are supposed to be. I can't see a serious campaign of Deathwatch lasting very long, but hey, screw it, let's go kill something with a stormbolter. Rogue Trader has some potential if you're willing to be canon flexible or really, really creative.

You sound like you've never played any of these games.

You get out of an RPG what you put into an RPG. If you approach Deathwatch as though it's a "one dimensional way to enact all their Spess Mahreen fantasies" then that's exactly what you'll get.