Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Alrighty so, as far as friendly gaming goes.. I'd say I'm reasonably good.

Last Sunday, I played against the new Necrons.. in the end I lost horribly - 2 - 1 on objectives with only three units left (CSM squad in a Rhino and trio of oblits). Frankly, it was very close and despite taking suffering great losses during the course of the game, my tactics were prevailing and I stood a good chance of winning 2 - 1 or at least contesting the game to a 1 - 1 draw.. unfortunately, a few miscalculations in movement resulted in what few viable beatsticks I had remaining got chomped up by Lychguard and an Overlord.. mean combo. Those S5 Power weapons are mean.. T5 3+/4++ (or is it 2+/4++?) is a helluva lot more survivable than first expected.. they just survive everything and hit back hard. They caused me no end of trouble.

Whenever our next game is, I'll probably bring Vanilla Marines to the table.. although I've considered just slapping down some Grey Knights to give myself an easier time when it comes to thinking about tactics..

So, thoughts? What's the best way to take down the new Necrons with all things Marine? Points level is usually 1500 to 2000.

plasma...melta...missiles... generally anything with high str.

also, focus your fire. pick the highest priority target and shoot it untill it goes away. i would suggest starting with either the closest threat, such as scarabs moving at your tanks, or rez orb lords or other support stuff. if you can prevent or hinder his RP it makes your job easier. sterngaurd should be able to do well with vengance rounds, but require getting close. perhaps a drop pod for them? devestators with plasma cannons can also provide a nice fire base if you dont mind "gets hot" risks.

You really have to massacre the unit completely, or there is a strong possibility, a lot of models are going to come back up. So, to this end, lots of focus fire will help.

Most Necron stuff, crumbles in CC, even to a basic Tac Marine squad with a PFist. They are I2, so units that are not Fearless (Which the Praetorians are) will get swept pretty easy.

Also, were you talking about Praetorains, or Lychguard? Lycheguard have a 4++ Shield, but Praetorains are Jump infantry.

If it's Lychguard, You should be able to out maneuver them for the most part, since they are pretty slow, unless they take a Night Scythe. Volume of shots is the best way to take care of them, but it has to be in one volley, or you risk half the unit standing back up if there is at least one alive, and a lord with an Orb.

They pretty much have a 24' shooting bubble. Take advantage of that, in anyway you can.

Sasori wrote:You really have to massacre the unit completely, or there is a strong possibility, a lot of models are going to come back up. So, to this end, lots of focus fire will help.

Most Necron stuff, crumbles in CC, even to a basic Tac Marine squad with a PFist. They are I2, so units that are not Fearless (Which the Praetorians are) will get swept pretty easy.

Also, were you talking about Praetorains, or Lychguard? Lycheguard have a 4++ Shield, but Praetorains are Jump infantry.

If it's Lychguard, You should be able to out maneuver them for the most part, since they are pretty slow, unless they take a Night Scythe. Volume of shots is the best way to take care of them, but it has to be in one volley, or you risk half the unit standing back up if there is at least one alive, and a lord with an Orb.

They pretty much have a 24' shooting bubble. Take advantage of that, in anyway you can.

my lychguard dont crumble in cc, Ill take any assault unit on baby!

2 lords (from 2 courts) with warscythes, mindshackle scarabs and one with a rez orb.

Mindshackles are rediciliously awesome on cc units...say...a unit of termies? a 3d6 leadership test (average roll of 11) i am likely to take over 1 maybe 2 terminators. Now I get to cackle maniacly saying "QUIT HITTING YOURSELF! QUIT HITTING YOURSELF!!"

Now a fight that was 7 on 5 (7 nercons 5 termies) now is a (8-9 on 3-4) i like those odds.

Theorius wrote:

Sasori wrote:You really have to massacre the unit completely, or there is a strong possibility, a lot of models are going to come back up. So, to this end, lots of focus fire will help.

Most Necron stuff, crumbles in CC, even to a basic Tac Marine squad with a PFist. They are I2, so units that are not Fearless (Which the Praetorians are) will get swept pretty easy.

Also, were you talking about Praetorains, or Lychguard? Lycheguard have a 4++ Shield, but Praetorains are Jump infantry.

If it's Lychguard, You should be able to out maneuver them for the most part, since they are pretty slow, unless they take a Night Scythe. Volume of shots is the best way to take care of them, but it has to be in one volley, or you risk half the unit standing back up if there is at least one alive, and a lord with an Orb.

They pretty much have a 24' shooting bubble. Take advantage of that, in anyway you can.

my lychguard dont crumble in cc, Ill take any assault unit on baby!

2 lords (from 2 courts) with warscythes, mindshackle scarabs and one with a rez orb.

Mindshackles are rediciliously awesome on cc units...say...a unit of termies? a 3d6 leadership test (average roll of 11) i am likely to take over 1 maybe 2 terminators. Now I get to cackle maniacly saying "QUIT HITTING YOURSELF! QUIT HITTING YOURSELF!!"

Now a fight that was 7 on 5 (7 nercons 5 termies) now is a (8-9 on 3-4) i like those odds.

By Most Necrons, I thought it was pretty clear I didn't mean our Dedicated assault units, lol.

Unlike any other codex you must concentrate you fire power on a single unit. Only once you've completely removed a unit can you move on (otherwise at half or one third will stand up again)

Sasori wrote:

Theorius wrote:

Sasori wrote:You really have to massacre the unit completely, or there is a strong possibility, a lot of models are going to come back up. So, to this end, lots of focus fire will help.

Most Necron stuff, crumbles in CC, even to a basic Tac Marine squad with a PFist. They are I2, so units that are not Fearless (Which the Praetorians are) will get swept pretty easy.

Also, were you talking about Praetorains, or Lychguard? Lycheguard have a 4++ Shield, but Praetorains are Jump infantry.

If it's Lychguard, You should be able to out maneuver them for the most part, since they are pretty slow, unless they take a Night Scythe. Volume of shots is the best way to take care of them, but it has to be in one volley, or you risk half the unit standing back up if there is at least one alive, and a lord with an Orb.

They pretty much have a 24' shooting bubble. Take advantage of that, in anyway you can.

my lychguard dont crumble in cc, Ill take any assault unit on baby!

2 lords (from 2 courts) with warscythes, mindshackle scarabs and one with a rez orb.

Mindshackles are rediciliously awesome on cc units...say...a unit of termies? a 3d6 leadership test (average roll of 11) i am likely to take over 1 maybe 2 terminators. Now I get to cackle maniacly saying "QUIT HITTING YOURSELF! QUIT HITTING YOURSELF!!"

Now a fight that was 7 on 5 (7 nercons 5 termies) now is a (8-9 on 3-4) i like those odds.

By Most Necrons, I thought it was pretty clear I didn't mean our Dedicated assault units, lol.

seeing as how scarabs, tomb spyders and wraiths are so bad ass I am more prone to say we are very assaulty with nice shooting back up. More and more ive been leaning towards supporting my assualt forces instead of using assault forces to defend my shooting forces....just my observation thus far. (coursethere are other strategies)

Sasori wrote:You really have to massacre the unit completely, or there is a strong possibility, a lot of models are going to come back up. So, to this end, lots of focus fire will help.

Most Necron stuff, crumbles in CC, even to a basic Tac Marine squad with a PFist. They are I2, so units that are not Fearless (Which the Praetorians are) will get swept pretty easy.

Also, were you talking about Praetorains, or Lychguard? Lycheguard have a 4++ Shield, but Praetorains are Jump infantry.

If it's Lychguard, You should be able to out maneuver them for the most part, since they are pretty slow, unless they take a Night Scythe. Volume of shots is the best way to take care of them, but it has to be in one volley, or you risk half the unit standing back up if there is at least one alive, and a lord with an Orb.

They pretty much have a 24' shooting bubble. Take advantage of that, in anyway you can.

Damn, meant Lychguard. I'll edit that into the OP.

I suppose I just wasn't counting on the RP.. the fact they always get it is a real friggin' pain.. Instant Death just ain't as fun as it should be anymore..

Ah well.. Grey Knights are always fun.. the sheer amount of Psycannon shots and Force Weapons would be a real pain against them.. though as I usually face anywhere between 40-70+ Necrons depending on points, Grey Knights would be heavily outnumbered.. Whereas my 'nilla's would have more equal numbers.

Hm, what to do, what to do?

If you sweep them, they Don't get RP.

Sasori wrote:If you sweep them, they Don't get RP.

True enough, but that goes without saying.. it isn't Instant Death after all.

Always been one of my favourite rules.. coming from an Meq perspective of course..

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Sasori wrote:If you sweep them, they Don't get RP.

True enough, but that goes without saying.. it isn't Instant Death after all.

Always been one of my favourite rules.. coming from an Meq perspective of course..

What points level are you guys playing at, and do you have a general idea of his list?

I just read the title of this thread in Gollum's voice. Those Damnable necronses.

But uh, yeah. 24" kill bubble, fold in close combat for the most part, and they smell funny.

DarthSpader wrote:plasma...melta...missiles... generally anything with high str.

also, focus your fire. pick the highest priority target and shoot it untill it goes away. i would suggest starting with either the closest threat, such as scarabs moving at your tanks, or rez orb lords or other support stuff. if you can prevent or hinder his RP it makes your job easier. sterngaurd should be able to do well with vengance rounds, but require getting close. perhaps a drop pod for them? devestators with plasma cannons can also provide a nice fire base if you dont mind "gets hot" risks.

You can't prevent RP.

Theorius wrote:

Sasori wrote:You really have to massacre the unit completely, or there is a strong possibility, a lot of models are going to come back up. So, to this end, lots of focus fire will help.

Most Necron stuff, crumbles in CC, even to a basic Tac Marine squad with a PFist. They are I2, so units that are not Fearless (Which the Praetorians are) will get swept pretty easy.

Also, were you talking about Praetorains, or Lychguard? Lycheguard have a 4++ Shield, but Praetorains are Jump infantry.

If it's Lychguard, You should be able to out maneuver them for the most part, since they are pretty slow, unless they take a Night Scythe. Volume of shots is the best way to take care of them, but it has to be in one volley, or you risk half the unit standing back up if there is at least one alive, and a lord with an Orb.

They pretty much have a 24' shooting bubble. Take advantage of that, in anyway you can.

my lychguard dont crumble in cc, Ill take any assault unit on baby!

2 lords (from 2 courts) with warscythes, mindshackle scarabs and one with a rez orb.

Mindshackles are rediciliously awesome on cc units...say...a unit of termies? a 3d6 leadership test (average roll of 11) i am likely to take over 1 maybe 2 terminators. Now I get to cackle maniacly saying "QUIT HITTING YOURSELF! QUIT HITTING YOURSELF!!"

Now a fight that was 7 on 5 (7 nercons 5 termies) now is a (8-9 on 3-4) i like those odds.

These mindshackles are blasphemic.
In view of the topic, Necrons have no psychic defense (almost). So a double lash list with lots of Oblits and PM should stand a chance no matter what. I don't see how Necrons are going to stop this army.

maersdet wrote:

DarthSpader wrote:plasma...melta...missiles... generally anything with high str.

also, focus your fire. pick the highest priority target and shoot it untill it goes away. i would suggest starting with either the closest threat, such as scarabs moving at your tanks, or rez orb lords or other support stuff. if you can prevent or hinder his RP it makes your job easier. sterngaurd should be able to do well with vengance rounds, but require getting close. perhaps a drop pod for them? devestators with plasma cannons can also provide a nice fire base if you dont mind "gets hot" risks.

You can't prevent RP.

Sure you can. Kill off the unit!

CSM aren't really my main army.. more of just a fun 'side' force.. Well, I'm actually pretty out-of-touch with the hobby at the minute.. /shrug

@Sasori -

Eh, I got this guy into 40k.. course I know his list.

Last game was 2K, he used double mono's (popped one, so good to be able to use melta on the bastards now ) Destroy + foot Overlords, 7-10 Lychguards, 50 Warriors, unit of Destroys including several heavies and a bunch of Scarabs.

Although he did text, asking if a melee-orientated Necron force would be viable.. so, not particularly sure what he's planning on bringing to the field this time.. I'm expecting C'tan beatsticks at some point though.. despite this, he's always stressed that he prefers a range-combat orientated force. /shrug

We'll see, suggestions and ideas? Cheers.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:CSM aren't really my main army.. more of just a fun 'side' force.. Well, I'm actually pretty out-of-touch with the hobby at the minute.. /shrug

@Sasori -

Eh, I got this guy into 40k.. course I know his list.

Last game was 2K, he used double mono's (popped one, so good to be able to use melta on the bastards now ) Destroy + foot Overlords, 7-10 Lychguards, 50 Warriors, unit of Destroys including several heavies and a bunch of Scarabs.

Although he did text, asking if a melee-orientated Necron force would be viable.. so, not particularly sure what he's planning on bringing to the field this time.. I'm expecting C'tan beatsticks at some point though.. despite this, he's always stressed that he prefers a range-combat orientated force. /shrug

We'll see, suggestions and ideas? Cheers.

That Warrior squad is just asking to get swept... Blasts and Templates ruin scarabs, use those whenever you can. C'tan have some nasty powers, depending on what he takes, care not to let it into combat with you. Keep in mind the C'tan ignores terrain tests, so cover won't save you from it.

7-10 Lychguard is a lot. with a unit that big, I wouldn't get near it, but it is going to take A LOT of firepower to get rid of them. I'd say avoid them if you can.

back on topic:

Best way to deal with them is to make sure you target prioritize.

If you see tons of canoptek spiders they are going to be more important to drop than the scarabs as each turn they can add another scarab swarm per spyder. So...if a guy takes 9 of them which is max he can take using all heavy slots and they do it alot. You better take them out or the 10 bases now are 28 after turn 2. Unless of course you can alpha strike and GUARANTEE you can kill all 10 scarab bases in one turn, if even one survives here comes 9 new scarabs per turn.

Next target is the scarabs, they ahve a 22" threat range with tomb spiders, how is this you ask? The tomb spyders can make the new spyders IN FRONT of the line getting them another 4" plus 6" move and 12" charge. (Dont let any necron player tell you can conga line summon spyders across the board...its wrong and pure cheese. ALL of them summoned at the same time and must be in unit coherency with the original unit) They still get 4" as opposed to 18" (if you deployed 3 then 3 more within 2 of those 4 and so on....or the stupid idea i can place 1, then the next in coherency, then the next one, and conga line 9 guys across the board...its BS and not according to the rules)

OH if they have doom scythes (especially more than 1) KILL THEM FIRST! far more dangerous thant scarbs and spyders.

After that kill big gribblies like barges, arks, scythes, and focus the troops last (or when objectives become necassary to take)

Make sure at the beginning of the game you know if he has crypteks and lords and what their load out is. Be aware of where his gimicks are if he has mindshackle scarabs (if you plan to assault him, which unit it is in if you assault them and dont know you could lose a fight you thought you could win) chronoptrons, tremor staves, eldritch lances, and veils of darkness. These are your keywords and those units they are in will need to be dealt with.


thats about all the tricks to be aware of.

Don't forget the Fleet on the Scarabs as well, Theorius.

Sasori wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:CSM aren't really my main army.. more of just a fun 'side' force.. Well, I'm actually pretty out-of-touch with the hobby at the minute.. /shrug

@Sasori -

Eh, I got this guy into 40k.. course I know his list.

Last game was 2K, he used double mono's (popped one, so good to be able to use melta on the bastards now ) Destroy + foot Overlords, 7-10 Lychguards, 50 Warriors, unit of Destroys including several heavies and a bunch of Scarabs.

Although he did text, asking if a melee-orientated Necron force would be viable.. so, not particularly sure what he's planning on bringing to the field this time.. I'm expecting C'tan beatsticks at some point though.. despite this, he's always stressed that he prefers a range-combat orientated force. /shrug

We'll see, suggestions and ideas? Cheers.

That Warrior squad is just asking to get swept... Blasts and Templates ruin scarabs, use those whenever you can. C'tan have some nasty powers, depending on what he takes, care not to let it into combat with you. Keep in mind the C'tan ignores terrain tests, so cover won't save you from it.

7-10 Lychguard is a lot. with a unit that big, I wouldn't get near it, but it is going to take A LOT of firepower to get rid of them. I'd say avoid them if you can.

With two Monoliths and the potential for Dawn of War letting them rip through me, they have plenty of chance to manoeuvre around me, under the right circumstances.. hell that was my real downfall in the last game, right near the end.

I'm thinking, some TH/SS Terminator beatstickers, perhaps with a Chaplain or Dorn in a LR in a vanilla list might screw them up something foul, but I'm not sure if it's worth investing near on 1000 points on a single unit like that.. frankly at some point I'll need to deal with them, as they were deployed very centrally in the last game, with Monoliths (had they both survived) giving them the chance to teleport to either end of the table at any point.

Also.. I know they're not a great choice by any means, but I considered perhaps taking Kantor or Calgar and a bunch of costly Honour Guard to eat through Warrior squads. Thoughts?

Well, he can't charge out of the monolith portal, so while that gets him close, it prevents him for assaulting that turn.

Math has shown that TH/SS about Equal Lychguard in combat. This heavily shifts in the Lychguard favor if they are carrying an Orb, however. TH/SS at least will tie them up for most of the game though.

Be careful on relying on a landraider, Scarabs can still chip a few armor off of it, even if you are moving at cruising speed. An AV 11 Land raider won't hold up for very long.

Eating through the Warrior squads shouldn't be that big of an issue, A big block isn't likely to get all of it's attacks against you, and is going at I2. You should cripple the squad to the point they won't be able to do anything to you, even with a squad of Assault Marines. Not to mention, a Max size warrior squad is only 20.

He can throw in Hidden Warscythes with his units though, with the Royal court.

Sasori wrote:Well, he can't charge out of the monolith portal, so while that gets him close, it prevents him for assaulting that turn.

Math has shown that TH/SS about Equal Lychguard in combat. This heavily shifts in the Lychguard favor if they are carrying an Orb, however. TH/SS at least will tie them up for most of the game though.

Be careful on relying on a landraider, Scarabs can still chip a few armor off of it, even if you are moving at cruising speed. An AV 11 Land raider won't hold up for very long.

Eating through the Warrior squads shouldn't be that big of an issue, A big block isn't likely to get all of it's attacks against you, and is going at I2. You should cripple the squad to the point they won't be able to do anything to you, even with a squad of Assault Marines. Not to mention, a Max size warrior squad is only 20.

He can throw in Hidden Warscythes with his units though, with the Royal court.

Royal Court is annoying when split up.. but he has no interest in Crypteks and only one normal Lord.. so.. not too worried y'see. Res Orbs galore though. I'll have to experiment.. Power Weapons everywhere will be good though..

It's just those damn Lychguard are bloody annoying.

Well if you play CSM then defilers are nice ... 4 DCCW and a battle cannon.

Tri wrote:Well if you play CSM then defilers are nice ... 4 DCCW and a battle cannon.

I'll be honest about how pathetic my 'army' is, I merely use what few remaining Marine models I have (and the odd Carnifex as a Daemon Prince) and play with whichever Marine codex I please.. simply don't have the cash to invest in a full army, especially after some prat knicked a bunch of my models last year (or the year before?).

Ah well, that's an old story for another time.

Point is, I don't have a Defiler.. I use what I have to work with.

Admittedly, I'm creative enough with my absolutely random selection of models to create more or less any unit/character in any Marine codex... So most list archetypes you can suggest will still be viable for me to build.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Tri wrote:Well if you play CSM then defilers are nice ... 4 DCCW and a battle cannon.

I'll be honest about how pathetic my 'army' is, I merely use what few remaining Marine models I have (and the odd Carnifex as a Daemon Prince) and play with whichever Marine codex I please.. simply don't have the cash to invest in a full army, especially after some prat knicked a bunch of my models last year (or the year before?).

Ah well, that's an old story for another time.

Point is, I don't have a Defiler.. I use what I have to work with.

Admittedly, I'm creative enough with my absolutely random selection of models to create more or less any unit/character in any Marine codex... So most list archetypes you can suggest will still be viable for me to build.

... don't have a full chaos army ... do you have the space wolves codex? if so play them as the thirteenth company that way you'll have access to better equipment. (Long fangs with 5 missile launchers do well)

Tri wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Tri wrote:Well if you play CSM then defilers are nice ... 4 DCCW and a battle cannon.

I'll be honest about how pathetic my 'army' is, I merely use what few remaining Marine models I have (and the odd Carnifex as a Daemon Prince) and play with whichever Marine codex I please.. simply don't have the cash to invest in a full army, especially after some prat knicked a bunch of my models last year (or the year before?).

Ah well, that's an old story for another time.

Point is, I don't have a Defiler.. I use what I have to work with.

Admittedly, I'm creative enough with my absolutely random selection of models to create more or less any unit/character in any Marine codex... So most list archetypes you can suggest will still be viable for me to build.

... don't have a full chaos army ... do you have the space wolves codex? if so play them as the thirteenth company that way you'll have access to better equipment. (Long fangs with 5 missile launchers do well)

I've got basically every codex mate.

Something I read in the Codex last nightt the I haven't seen mentioned on Dakka yet:

If the unit is forced to fall back, any RP waiting tokens are left behind and destroyed!

So in terms of shooting, if you can dink down leadership a bit and cause 25% casualties, you may be able to force the crons away from their RP awaiting tokens! Very nasty indeed.

ShadarLogoth wrote:Something I read in the Codex last nightt the I haven't seen mentioned on Dakka yet:

If the unit is forced to fall back, any RP waiting tokens are left behind and destroyed!

So in terms of shooting, if you can dink down leadership a bit and cause 25% casualties, you may be able to force the crons away from their RP awaiting tokens! Very nasty indeed.

Unreliable tactic, what with generally army-wide LD10...

If your friend brings Canoptek Wraiths, be careful. Those things will wreck just about anything, even a Land Raider. They are probably our best CC unit, and they are very quick.

Sasori wrote:If your friend brings Canoptek Wraiths, be careful. Those things will wreck just about anything, even a Land Raider. They are probably our best CC unit, and they are very quick.

Just had a quick look over them in the Necron codex.. pretty damn nasty. Not particularly unlike their previous incarnation, although undoubtedly refined and much more deadly. The very fact that they can come in such large units is pretty worrying.. very much a jack of all trades unit.

Any thoughts on how to destroy them? I'd imagine by pouring vast amounts of focussed-firepower into them or throwing some TH/SS Terminators at them.. although the latter option is arguably a waste as that unit is best suited to rampaging through units of warriors and the like.