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The new Necron codex is a lot of food for thought. So far, I have identified the following tricks:

1) Charging through monoliths

According to the new rules, units transported by the monolith gate count as emerging from a transport. This means if the monolith does not move, under the standard rules, disembarking units can move and assault as normal. The upshot of this is that we Necrons can teleport a unit from anywhere in the map so long as it is not engaged in combat, disembark it from the monolith, then move and assault. That can be a very nasty surprise, especially with cc units like the elites and scarabs.

In the same venue, the rules say that we can move a unit from the reserves through the gate, but the rules do not specify an ELIGIBLE unit, just any unit in reserve. This means that first, we can pull any unit out of reserve without rolling for reserve availability, and second, if the monolith has not moved, that same unit can assault the same turn as normal!

I suspect these points may be FAQed but so far so good.

2) Scythe Alpha Strike

I think the night scythes are by far the scariest unit in the new list because it is ridiculously mobile, it carries the tesla destructor twin-linked, it is a transport, and it is very inexpensive for what it does. I am considering a list that contains five of these. They are dedicated transports, which means they are only limited in number by whatever units you take to be transported by them. This means:

5 necron warriors plus night scythe = 180 pts
6 units = 1080 pts

So for a bit over a 1000 pts, we get 30 necrons and 6 transports that move 12 inches and still fire to full effect. Combined with twin-linked and tesla rules, this means a bit over 24 hits of S7 per turn, plus 6 possibilities for arcing to adjacent units for S5 hits. This is a real Necron alpha strike in the style of DE, except with more shots at albeit shorter range.

Also, the rules dictate that if the transports are destroyed, the passengers go in the reserve, rather than suffer hits and possible wipeout. Combined with the monolith gating, this is a very effective way to put shots on target with relative safety.

3) Phalanx revisited

The new rules suggest a possibility for an army list where the ghost arks are used for fire support and repair rather than transportation. A good build seems to be full 20 necrons with a lord with res orb and an ark. Three such units can be fit in most lists. That is 60 models of necrons on the board, with three arks regenerating 3d3 necrons per turn. Also, the rules do not say that the ark can only regenerate the unit it was bought with, so the arks can in principle regenerate all models in the same unit. This means the arks have to be placed behind the phalanx and be ready to move to aid any of the three blocks.

4) scarabs are now awesome!

Notice that the rules for scarabs say that the armor erosion happens on a hit roll, rather than a penetration roll. This means the entire unit of scarabs first gets to erode the armor on hitting, and then roll to pen the reduced value. This makes scarabs deadly against vehicles, especially with 4 attacks per stand on charge.

5) Tesla and stormlord rules

The tesla rules do not specify that a unit must be outside a vehicle to be affected by the arcing. This means we should be able to arc from the transport to the units inside or on it (open-topped). This is particularly hurtful to DE, because they tend to deploy their ravagers and raiders in a blob. Similarly, the stormlord rules do not specify that the unit affected by the lightning had to be disembarked.

One build that is stuck in my mind is:
5x (5 warriors in scythe) = 900
2x (10 scarabs)=300
2x monoliths = 400
the stormlord= 225
--------------------------
total = 1825

This list seems synergetic, because the Stormlord ability means an alpha strike is possible by stealing the initiative. If it is not stolen, we can hang back for a turn and be well protected by terrain and the night-fighting rules. Monoliths can teleport the warriors close to objectives. Scarabs open up the heavy tin cans while the tesla weaponry kills the light transports and infantry on foot.

Does the monoliths rules specficlly state you can pull from reserves without rolling? That seems utterly broken to me. Whats the wording on the rule?

Well, these ideas are quite interesting. The issue on the Monolith, charging from its portal, seems a bit questionable to me. That's in fact a case for the FAQs.
On the other hand, the list makes sense. However, Scythes are only AV 11 and get eventually destroyed if targeted, especially when moving over 12'' so that an immobilization result causes destruction.

I don't think charging from the portal is an issue, depending on the rules of the portal, But if the lith doesn't move, and acts like a transport then models could disembark, move and shoot or charge normally.

Charging through monoliths

According to the new rules, units transported by the monolith gate count as emerging from a transport.

Half right. Specifically, guys coming out of the portal always do so as if the monolith moved at combat speed. So, no moves or assaults after disembarking.

Scythe Alpha Strike

I think the night scythes are by far the scariest unit in the new list because it is ridiculously mobile, it carries the tesla destructor twin-linked, it is a transport, and it is very inexpensive for what it does. I am considering a list that contains five of these. They are dedicated transports, which means they are only limited in number by whatever units you take to be transported by them. This means:

They're paper planes that pretty much remove the embarked unit from relevancy once it goes down. Fast, sure. Spammable? absolutely. But what the hell are you doing popping 5 warriors in a night scythe? You drop them off somewhere, then what? What's your endgame there?

Plus your points are off.

3) Phalanx revisited

The new rules suggest a possibility for an army list where the ghost arks are used for fire support and repair rather than transportation. A good build seems to be full 20 necrons with a lord with res orb and an ark. Three such units can be fit in most lists. That is 60 models of necrons on the board, with three arks regenerating 3d3 necrons per turn. Also, the rules do not say that the ark can only regenerate the unit it was bought with, so the arks can in principle regenerate all models in the same unit. This means the arks have to be placed behind the phalanx and be ready to move to aid any of the three blocks.

2 Arks supporting 25 warriors each is working well for me (10 in, 15 out). Orb lord attached to warriors is a criminal waste of points.

Tesla and stormlord rules

The tesla rules do not specify that a unit must be outside a vehicle to be affected by the arcing. This means we should be able to arc from the transport to the units inside or on it (open-topped). This is particularly hurtful to DE, because they tend to deploy their ravagers and raiders in a blob. Similarly, the stormlord rules do not specify that the unit affected by the lightning had to be disembarked.

I would expect this to be FAQ'd if it actually works like this.

After reading the codex, I've been thinking more along the lines of how annoying an Orikan list you could possibly go for;

- Orikan
- Overlord
- Royal Court w/5x Harbingers of Transmogrification (inlcuding 1x harp + 1x seismic crucible)
- C'tan w/writhing worldscape + other
- fit troops/fast/heavy to flavour.

Basically a list that keeps the enemy in diffcult/dangerous terrain all game to slow 'em down to a crawl... Combined with wraiths, scarabs and transports, you could probably have a good time picking apart a fractured & isolated enemy, otherwise they're pretty much forced to stay put and give you free riegn to move about where you want. Nasty against anyone who can't mech-up like 'nids, BA assault-spam, daemons, etc...
Probably right up there with Stormlord + solar pulse shinanigans in terms of utter lack of fun for any opponents though!

Ostrakon wrote:

They're paper planes that pretty much remove the embarked unit from relevancy once it goes down. Fast, sure. Spammable? absolutely. But what the hell are you doing popping 5 warriors in a night scythe? You drop them off somewhere, then what? What's your endgame there?

You are right about the points - 5 warriors is 65, not 80 points, so the build is even cheaper.

Five or six groups of 5 warriors is useful in an objectives-based game, which is 2 out of every 3 missions. If their kite is killed, the unit safely goes in reserves, which means it can be pulled in play through the monoliths or can just walk onto the map. In the first case, they get to appear near the middle of the board by turn 3, or march and claim the home objectives. Each unit is small and prone to wipeout, but there are many units to wipe out before clearing enough objectives. Also, they can sit in cover and go to ground for 3++ saves. That will make them pretty hard to dislodge with shooting.

The purpose of the kite swarm is to alpha-strike the opponent. Yes, they are fragile, but actually tougher than DE vehicles, and on top they have "living metal" and are not open-topped. They also have more hits due to twin-linked and tesla, albeit at S7. With all that firepower, within two turns they should more than get their points back, while the opponent also feels the pain from the two monoliths, which now can move and fire all weapons as flux arcs count as defensive weapons. Wherever appropriate, the kites can also disembark the warriors after moving 12 inches, for extra dakka, while the swarms are ready to pounce on hard armor.

2 Arks supporting 25 warriors each is working well for me (10 in, 15 out). Orb lord attached to warriors is a criminal waste of points.

Why do you think a res lord supporting 20 warriors is a waste of points? In the course of the game, the unit will at least roll 20+4d3 RP rolls = 28 on average. The orb means 14 make it back instead of 9. The 5x13=80 pts pays for the 35+25=60 pts lord.

Necrontyr40k wrote:The new Necron codex is a lot of food for thought. So far, I have identified the following tricks:

1) Charging through monoliths

According to the new rules, units transported by the monolith gate count as emerging from a transport. This means if the monolith does not move, under the standard rules, disembarking units can move and assault as normal. The upshot of this is that we Necrons can teleport a unit from anywhere in the map so long as it is not engaged in combat, disembark it from the monolith, then move and assault. That can be a very nasty surprise, especially with cc units like the elites and scarabs.

Doesn't work as a unit coming through the portal counts as disembarking from a vehicle moving at combat speed. Sorry, no assault for you.

In the same venue, the rules say that we can move a unit from the reserves through the gate, but the rules do not specify an ELIGIBLE unit, just any unit in reserve. This means that first, we can pull any unit out of reserve without rolling for reserve availability, and second, if the monolith has not moved, that same unit can assault the same turn as normal!

The first part works....but if the unit comes onto the board before you can pull them from reserves they have a long walk. Second part doesn't. Can't assault after "disembarking" from a monolith.

2) Scythe Alpha Strike

I think the night scythes are by far the scariest unit in the new list because it is ridiculously mobile, it carries the tesla destructor twin-linked, it is a transport, and it is very inexpensive for what it does. I am considering a list that contains five of these. They are dedicated transports, which means they are only limited in number by whatever units you take to be transported by them. This means:

5 necron warriors plus night scythe = 180 pts
6 units = 1080 pts

So for a bit over a 1000 pts, we get 30 necrons and 6 transports that move 12 inches and still fire to full effect. Combined with twin-linked and tesla rules, this means a bit over 24 hits of S7 per turn, plus 6 possibilities for arcing to adjacent units for S5 hits. This is a real Necron alpha strike in the style of DE, except with more shots at albeit shorter range.

Except the night-scythes have tissue-paper armor and if you move flat-out are wrecked on an immobilized results.....which leaves the warriors stuck in reserves and most likely will walk in from the back of the board......yay!

3) Phalanx revisited

The new rules suggest a possibility for an army list where the ghost arks are used for fire support and repair rather than transportation. A good build seems to be full 20 necrons with a lord with res orb and an ark. Three such units can be fit in most lists. That is 60 models of necrons on the board, with three arks regenerating 3d3 necrons per turn. Also, the rules do not say that the ark can only regenerate the unit it was bought with, so the arks can in principle regenerate all models in the same unit. This means the arks have to be placed behind the phalanx and be ready to move to aid any of the three blocks.

Works, but honestly warriors still have the same crappy guns and are easier to kill and much easier to sweep in CC.

4) scarabs are now awesome!

Notice that the rules for scarabs say that the armor erosion happens on a hit roll, rather than a penetration roll. This means the entire unit of scarabs first gets to erode the armor on hitting, and then roll to pen the reduced value. This makes scarabs deadly against vehicles, especially with 4 attacks per stand on charge.

They are good, but not OP. Remember that S6 instant-deaths them and blasts/templates cause double wounds.....so blasts/template that are S6+ will cause double the amount of instant deaths. Beware of hellhounds, incinerators, flamestorms, and and high-strength blasts if you don't have cover.

5) Tesla and stormlord rules

The tesla rules do not specify that a unit must be outside a vehicle to be affected by the arcing. This means we should be able to arc from the transport to the units inside or on it (open-topped). This is particularly hurtful to DE, because they tend to deploy their ravagers and raiders in a blob. Similarly, the stormlord rules do not specify that the unit affected by the lightning had to be disembarked.

If the unit is not on the board, you can't affect it. Sorry, no dice.

Necrontyr40k wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

They're paper planes that pretty much remove the embarked unit from relevancy once it goes down. Fast, sure. Spammable? absolutely. But what the hell are you doing popping 5 warriors in a night scythe? You drop them off somewhere, then what? What's your endgame there?

You are right about the points - 5 warriors is 65, not 80 points, so the build is even cheaper.

Five or six groups of 5 warriors is useful in an objectives-based game, which is 2 out of every 3 missions. If their kite is killed, the unit safely goes in reserves, which means it can be pulled in play through the monoliths or can just walk onto the map. In the first case, they get to appear near the middle of the board by turn 3, or march and claim the home objectives. Each unit is small and prone to wipeout, but there are many units to wipe out before clearing enough objectives. Also, they can sit in cover and go to ground for 3++ saves. That will make them pretty hard to dislodge with shooting.

The purpose of the kite swarm is to alpha-strike the opponent. Yes, they are fragile, but actually tougher than DE vehicles, and on top they have "living metal" and are not open-topped. They also have more hits due to twin-linked and tesla, albeit at S7. With all that firepower, within two turns they should more than get their points back, while the opponent also feels the pain from the two monoliths, which now can move and fire all weapons as flux arcs count as defensive weapons. Wherever appropriate, the kites can also disembark the warriors after moving 12 inches, for extra dakka, while the swarms are ready to pounce on hard armor.

2 Arks supporting 25 warriors each is working well for me (10 in, 15 out). Orb lord attached to warriors is a criminal waste of points.

Why do you think a res lord supporting 20 warriors is a waste of points? In the course of the game, the unit will at least roll 20+4d3 RP rolls = 28 on average. The orb means 14 make it back instead of 9. The 5x13=80 pts pays for the 35+25=60 pts lord.

5 warriors isn't a great way to hold an objective, simply because of how prone to being wiped it is. I can see why it might make sense to use them for NS spam (which I might actually try, since I keep forgetting that the NS has a TLTD on it), but if the NS gets destroyed you're going to have 5 footslogging irrelevant warriors for the rest of the game. I wouldn't count on the monolith surviving since we don't have melta immunity anymore.

In the lord example, you're making the assumption that they're shooting at that unit exclusively. What I see is a 300+ point unit that's easy to neutralize entirely by assaulting it. If (more likely when) it gets swept, that res orb will count for jack.

Warriors can hold an objective better than 5 tac marines. Place the objective near cover, keep the warriors in reserve, move/run them into cover when they come in off reserve, and go to ground whenever they are shot at.

And then they get charged. And unlike TAC marines they don't have 3+ saves or a power weapon.

Ostrakon wrote:

5 warriors isn't a great way to hold an objective, simply because of how prone to being wiped it is. I can see why it might make sense to use them for NS spam (which I might actually try, since I keep forgetting that the NS has a TLTD on it), but if the NS gets destroyed you're going to have 5 footslogging irrelevant warriors for the rest of the game. I wouldn't count on the monolith surviving since we don't have melta immunity anymore.

I don't think they can be irrelevant. Each such unit is a scoring unit with decent survivability (T4 4+ Rp5+). If they get shot up badly, they simply go to ground in cover for a 3++ followed by Rp 5+ and they absorb a lot of shooting that way, which means the rest of the army survives and punishes. If they do not get shot up, they have 5 gauss shots at 24 inches to finish up scarab-treated armor. If they get assaulted, they will likely die, but there are 5 or 6 units of them scattered around the map, and each costs only 65 points. They are totally sacrificial and annoying to the opponent.

In the lord example, you're making the assumption that they're shooting at that unit exclusively. What I see is a 300+ point unit that's easy to neutralize entirely by assaulting it. If (more likely when) it gets swept, that res orb will count for jack.

I agree sweeping advance is an issue, but that is the point of the synergy of the phalanx. Very few things would survive in numbers to approach a line of 60 warriors supported by 3 ghost arks. Whatever reaches should be significantly weakened and then it charges a block of 20 T4 4+ models, which means even if the Necrons lose, it will not be by that many models, so the modifier to the leadership check will not be heavy (unless they get pre-treated by IG PBS or similar).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:And then they get charged. And unlike TAC marines they don't have 3+ saves or a power weapon.

TAC MEQ are more expensive and need to be transported to their assault locations. With either the phalanx or NS spam, marines would not make it anywhere in numbers anytime soon. The only exception is assault marines, which will be a problem, but they are even more expensive and will take a long time to hunt 6 units of warriors around the map while being shot up by the rest of the army.

The bottom line is the warriors have lost some survivability but a cheaper in the new codex, so they need to be used sacrificially in small units or en mass in a few large units. That is why I support either of the two extremes - phalanx or NS spam - but nothing in between.

Let's go back to the basics of objectives. I loosely use the term holding objectives, camping objectives, and taking objectives without ever defining the terms. Here is how I define the terms.

Holding an objective/camping an objective: Keeping a scoring unit within 3" of a a safe easy to reach objective. Easy to reach=in your deployment zone or within a couple inches of your deployment zone. Reaching the objective should be easy, and holding the objective should be easy as long as your main battle line doesn't collapse.

Taking objectives: Taking control of an objective that is a hard fought bloody objective. Hard fought bloody objectives=in the center of the board or in the other side's deployment zone. Reaching the objective is difficult, holding the objective is difficult, and your opponent should be at an advantage in his efforts to stop you from taking it.

That being said 65 point squads are not build to take objectives, they are built to hold objectives.

Now look at basic marine tactics.

A 10 man tac squad with ML, melta, and PF will usually combat squad in an objective based game. The ML and 4 tac marines will usually camp a safe objective while the PF, melta, and 3 other tac marines split off into a combat squad, jump in the transport, and join other units in an effort to take the difficult objective.

5 necron warriors can camp that objective just as well as 4 tac marines +1 ML for less points. What matters most is how easy it is to shoot the unit off the objective (both can go to ground for a 3++ cover, necrons have a 5+RP), and leadership (LD10 versus LD8 with ATSKNF). The necrons actually do that job better for less points.

As far as assaults go the extra 2I and the +1 to the tac marines armor saves doesn't matter. Let's look at the big picture, and that is 1 of 2 things can happen.

#1) If the unit assaulting the objective camper can absolutely slaughter 5 necrons it can slaughter 5 tac marines
#2) The fight is a long drawn out bloody fight. The extra I and armor save versus the RP doesn't matter too much. The bottom line is 5 attacks at S4 WS4 from either the necrons or tac marines isn't going to do much unless the assaulting unit is 5 gaunts or a half dozen grots. If both sides get tarpitted the assaulting unit wins because they are contesting the objective. Both necrons and marines will need to send a 2nd unit to rescue the objective campers.

Havent tried this yet, but its an idea:

Orikan - All enemy units move in difficult terrain.
Ctan shard with worldscape - All difficult terrain becomes dangerous.
Crypteks with tremmorstaves - Any unit hit by it count as being in difficult terrain while in the open.

Long story short, C'tan simply makes everything dangerous terrain.
Crypteks keep firing at large units simply to get the quake rule.

Set up a gunline on your edge and mow them down as they come.
Against horde its nasty.
However, gunboat DE are still a pain.

Jackal wrote:Havent tried this yet, but its an idea:

Orikan - All enemy units move in difficult terrain.
Ctan shard with worldscape - All difficult terrain becomes dangerous.
Crypteks with tremmorstaves - Any unit hit by it count as being in difficult terrain while in the open.

Long story short, C'tan simply makes everything dangerous terrain.
Crypteks keep firing at large units simply to get the quake rule.

Set up a gunline on your edge and mow them down as they come.
Against horde its nasty.
However, gunboat DE are still a pain.

Gunboat DE along with all other armies have 5 options when going up against the C'tan + Orikan combo.

Option #1 Go first and have 1/3 of their transports immobilized by dangerous terrain tests
Option #2 Go first, keep their transports stationary for 1 turn, and risk having vehicles that did not move get assaulted by scarabs on turn 1
Option #3 Go second and risk a turn 1 scarab assault on their transports, then immobilize 1/3 of them with dangerous terrain tests.
Option #4 Go second, risk a turn 1 scarab attack, don't move any vehicles on turn 1, then watch scarabs auto hit vehicles on turn 2.
Option #5 Full reserve all units negating C'Tan+Orikan shenanigans, but come in piece mail against the necrons.

Options #5 is bad, but options 1-4 are totally unacceptable. The question to ask yourself is how are you going to plan for and take advantage of the DE full reserving all units? I would plan on opponents choosing option #5 about 90% of the time.

I actually called GW when playing DE against the storm lord and they told me that a unit embarked in a transport doesn't count as being actually on the table so it hits the transport not the unit inside, sorry about that one (which would also mean the same for the tesla).

In regards to the Lord w/Orb in a group of Warriors and CC = dead warriors. Why not just give the Lord a Warscythe, maybe some Mindshackle Scarabs? That should be more than enough of a defense against a weakened CC charge.

Zro1312 wrote:I actually called GW when playing DE against the storm lord and they told me that a unit embarked in a transport doesn't count as being actually on the table so it hits the transport not the unit inside, sorry about that one (which would also mean the same for the tesla).

If that is what they said, we will have to play it that way. But, it really does not sit well with me, especially for open-topped transports.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bylak wrote:In regards to the Lord w/Orb in a group of Warriors and CC = dead warriors. Why not just give the Lord a Warscythe, maybe some Mindshackle Scarabs? That should be more than enough of a defense against a weakened CC charge.

I agree either might be enough to tip the balance and prevent a sweep. I'd suggest either shackle or the warscythe. Giving too much equipment to the lord (already given the orb) becomes dangerous as the lord now has only 1W.

Necrontyr40k wrote:5) Tesla and stormlord rules

The tesla rules do not specify that a unit must be outside a vehicle to be affected by the arcing. This means we should be able to arc from the transport to the units inside or on it (open-topped). This is particularly hurtful to DE, because they tend to deploy their ravagers and raiders in a blob. Similarly, the stormlord rules do not specify that the unit affected by the lightning had to be disembarked.

If you actually think this will work...

An interesting trick I saw on another thread was C'tan w/ Time Arrow + Wraiths with Whip Coils. Knock their initiative down to one, then make them pass a Initiative test.

schadenfreude wrote:Let's go back to the basics of objectives. I loosely use the term holding objectives, camping objectives, and taking objectives without ever defining the terms. Here is how I define the terms.

Holding an objective/camping an objective: Keeping a scoring unit within 3" of a a safe easy to reach objective. Easy to reach=in your deployment zone or within a couple inches of your deployment zone. Reaching the objective should be easy, and holding the objective should be easy as long as your main battle line doesn't collapse.

Taking objectives: Taking control of an objective that is a hard fought bloody objective. Hard fought bloody objectives=in the center of the board or in the other side's deployment zone. Reaching the objective is difficult, holding the objective is difficult, and your opponent should be at an advantage in his efforts to stop you from taking it.

That being said 65 point squads are not build to take objectives, they are built to hold objectives.

Now look at basic marine tactics.

A 10 man tac squad with ML, melta, and PF will usually combat squad in an objective based game. The ML and 4 tac marines will usually camp a safe objective while the PF, melta, and 3 other tac marines split off into a combat squad, jump in the transport, and join other units in an effort to take the difficult objective.

5 necron warriors can camp that objective just as well as 4 tac marines +1 ML for less points. What matters most is how easy it is to shoot the unit off the objective (both can go to ground for a 3++ cover, necrons have a 5+RP), and leadership (LD10 versus LD8 with ATSKNF). The necrons actually do that job better for less points.

As far as assaults go the extra 2I and the +1 to the tac marines armor saves doesn't matter. Let's look at the big picture, and that is 1 of 2 things can happen.

#1) If the unit assaulting the objective camper can absolutely slaughter 5 necrons it can slaughter 5 tac marines
#2) The fight is a long drawn out bloody fight. The extra I and armor save versus the RP doesn't matter too much. The bottom line is 5 attacks at S4 WS4 from either the necrons or tac marines isn't going to do much unless the assaulting unit is 5 gaunts or a half dozen grots. If both sides get tarpitted the assaulting unit wins because they are contesting the objective. Both necrons and marines will need to send a 2nd unit to rescue the objective campers.

Agree.

Scythe spam seems one of the more powerful tactics in this book in regards to setting yourself up for playing the objective game.

4-6 Scythes with min warriors is 660-990 points. Expensive, but remembering Troops are a sunken cost, you have to take them anyway. Immortals are an option as well for +20 points each.
Having the troops go into reserve is not a penalty in this army, it's a boon, as it keeps them off the table and safe, to later walk onto your edge to score on home objectives.

You need troops units, and I don't see how anyone can say the Scythe is overpriced, it's a bargain unit. Fast, with an exceptionally good gun, not AV10 or opentopped, and living metal, and the option to supersonic. Given the rest of your army, I wouldn't expect to have all your scythes demeched in the first half of the game.

Other weird tricks - suicide AP1 teleporting flamer squad Royal Court. Super hard to put down for good because of everliving.

Necrontyr40k wrote: transports that move 12 inches and still fire to full effect.

This has been bugging me for awhile now.

This there any real point to the Nightscythe having the Aerial Assault rule? I mean it allows it to move at Cruising Speed and still fire all of it's weapons. It only has one weapon, which as a Fast Skimmer, it may already fire while moving at Cruising Speed.

I mean it doesn't really affect anything, it just seems like wasted ink to me.

Carry on.

Panzerboy26 wrote:

Necrontyr40k wrote: transports that move 12 inches and still fire to full effect.

This has been bugging me for awhile now.

This there any real point to the Nightscythe having the Aerial Assault rule? I mean it allows it to move at Cruising Speed and still fire all of it's weapons. It only has one weapon, which as a Fast Skimmer, it may already fire while moving at Cruising Speed.

I mean it doesn't really affect anything, it just seems like wasted ink to me.

Carry on.

It is perhaps written with 6th edition in mind, when the rules for vehicles could change.

Necrontyr40k wrote:

Zro1312 wrote:I actually called GW when playing DE against the storm lord and they told me that a unit embarked in a transport doesn't count as being actually on the table so it hits the transport not the unit inside, sorry about that one (which would also mean the same for the tesla).

If that is what they said, we will have to play it that way. But, it really does not sit well with me, especially for open-topped transports.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bylak wrote:In regards to the Lord w/Orb in a group of Warriors and CC = dead warriors. Why not just give the Lord a Warscythe, maybe some Mindshackle Scarabs? That should be more than enough of a defense against a weakened CC charge.

I agree either might be enough to tip the balance and prevent a sweep. I'd suggest either shackle or the warscythe. Giving too much equipment to the lord (already given the orb) becomes dangerous as the lord now has only 1W.

Keep in Mind that 1W is hiding behind 20 others though. This isn't an IC hanging around to get picked off in CC, this and upgrade character.

I for one am a HUGE supporter of the Lord/Res Orb/WS/MSS combo in a group of 20 warriors. Sure its 90 points, but it gives the warriors a 50% better RP and shores up their greatest weakness, CC. The WS alone accounts for .83 wounds/round of assault, and the MSS Should generally be at least a 1 wound swing against most dedicated assault units, if not two.

Jackal wrote:Havent tried this yet, but its an idea:

Orikan - All enemy units move in difficult terrain.
Ctan shard with worldscape - All difficult terrain becomes dangerous.
Crypteks with tremmorstaves - Any unit hit by it count as being in difficult terrain while in the open.

Long story short, C'tan simply makes everything dangerous terrain.
Crypteks keep firing at large units simply to get the quake rule.

Set up a gunline on your edge and mow them down as they come.
Against horde its nasty.
However, gunboat DE are still a pain.

Yeah, I don't know what GW is thinking with this.
in one turn a running orc army is going to lose a third of its models, its nonsense.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Keep in Mind that 1W is hiding behind 20 others though. This isn't an IC hanging around to get picked off in CC, this and upgrade character.

Thank you for pointing this out. Somehow I am still thinking the new lord functions like a nerfed old lord, so my knee-jerk reaction is to worry about him being singled out by hecatrixes, etc. I double-checked and he is an upgrade now, so he is far more lasting in CC. It turns out none of the court are ICs, so the same trick works with crypteks as well. Yay!




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Grundz wrote:

Yeah, I don't know what GW is thinking with this.
in one turn a running orc army is going to lose a third of its models, its nonsense.

The Ctan ability functions all the time but Orikan's works only on the first turn. So, if I were the warboss, I simply would forgo moving at all for the first turn. With small exceptions, the necrons are a 24 inch army with a lot of the firepower being rapid fire. So, the damage from the missed turn would not be that much. You can also deploy in cover and go to ground for the first turn. So this combo is not that lethal.

An ork foot army should probably be more scared of tesla weapons, especially the destructor with the arcing rule, e.g. in a NS spam build.

Grundz wrote:

Jackal wrote:Havent tried this yet, but its an idea:

Orikan - All enemy units move in difficult terrain.
Ctan shard with worldscape - All difficult terrain becomes dangerous.
Crypteks with tremmorstaves - Any unit hit by it count as being in difficult terrain while in the open.

Long story short, C'tan simply makes everything dangerous terrain.
Crypteks keep firing at large units simply to get the quake rule.

Set up a gunline on your edge and mow them down as they come.
Against horde its nasty.
However, gunboat DE are still a pain.

Yeah, I don't know what GW is thinking with this.
in one turn a running orc army is going to lose a third of its models, its nonsense.

It is not as bad as you think.

If you have first turn then you will simply lose 1/6 of your models(on average)+ another 1/6 if you run, as the tremor staves cannot hit you before you move.
Then once the Tremor staves start hitting; then only the units hit by the staves will lose 1/3 in movement(none for running, since quake only effects in the movement phase).

If you get second turn; then you can just not move any units hit by the tremorstave in the movement phase, and run with them in the shooting phase.

There will also be a fairly limited number of units hit by the staves unless the Necron Player takes 5-10 upgraded Cryptecs(@ 30 points apiece), and parses them out to different units(>5 requiring a second overlord) So just for multiple Tremor Staves in this gimmick-list you are spending 150+90+90+185+25+(between 10 and 50 for the second C'Tan power; lets assume 10)=550 points; then you would need 3 units of Warriors, immortals, Luchguard, or Deathmarks(2 units of Warriors or Immortals are going to be required for FOC anyways, so really shouldn't count against anything); but you are still dedicating around 25% of your army(dropping the Overlords out of the equation since they can still do other things, and the C'tan may or may not be able to do much else, depending on what second power you give him, but then we factor in the 3 units that have been given Crypteks...) just to slow down 5 units(and not even by that great of a margin)

King Pariah wrote:An interesting trick I saw on another thread was C'tan w/ Time Arrow + Wraiths with Whip Coils. Knock their initiative down to one, then make them pass a Initiative test.

I noticed that one too. The question is, does the I1 work only for the assault sequence or is it a replacement of the I value for checks as well. The codex wording is that I counts as 1 regardless of actual value, but it does not say for what purposes it counts as 1. This should be FAQed asap, otherwise dreads and most MCs are going to be in trouble.


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Fetterkey wrote:

Necrontyr40k wrote:5) Tesla and stormlord rules

The tesla rules do not specify that a unit must be outside a vehicle to be affected by the arcing. This means we should be able to arc from the transport to the units inside or on it (open-topped). This is particularly hurtful to DE, because they tend to deploy their ravagers and raiders in a blob. Similarly, the stormlord rules do not specify that the unit affected by the lightning had to be disembarked.

If you actually think this will work...

If we are approaching it from practical perspective, I agree it is a bit of a stretch for enclosed transports but why is it unreasonable for open-topped transports?

If we are approaching it from rules perspective, it is written rather simply and no exceptions are given: "roll a D6 for each other unit (friendly or unfriendly, engaged or unengaged) within 6 inches of the target" (quoted verbatim from the codex). Clearly unfriendly unengaged units in transports within 6 inches are within 6 inches as well.

I completely do not buy the explanation "if they are in transports, they are not on the map". If they are not on the map, who is shooting me from the fire ports? If they are not on the map, why are they affected by stunned and shaken results for the vehicle?

Necrontyr40k wrote:
4) scarabs are now awesome!

Notice that the rules for scarabs say that the armor erosion happens on a hit roll, rather than a penetration roll. This means the entire unit of scarabs first gets to erode the armor on hitting, and then roll to pen the reduced value. This makes scarabs deadly against vehicles, especially with 4 attacks per stand on charge.

Wrong.

Plain Wrong.

Scarabs were *always* awesome!

I've been thinking about two overlords/two veil of darkness crypteks and deep striking two lots of 3x Spyders to the front line.