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I play Warriors of Chaos. Last night on a whim I threw together a Daemon Prince out of some bits I had lying around. The model has a crow-looking head and feathered wings, so I'm planning to either field him either as an unmarked Daemon with a few wizard levels and the Lore of Shadow, or with the MoT.

What upgrades and tactics should I consider using? I like the Mantle of Chaos as I regularly play against Dwarfs, but it's quite expensive. I generally play casual games. What's the best way to get the most out of this unit?

When I run my WoC (which is rarely any more), I've taken to running a striped down DP w/ MoT + bloodcurdling roar. 335 points keeps him 'cheap' and I generally use him to bomb around the backfield, liquefying war machines and threatening chaff, and eventually rear or flank-charging to help my warriors out, particularly when it comes to catching fleeing enemies (swiftstride for great justice). I've also used him to lock down enemies with his stubborn (within 12" of BSB) until warriors can tank in.

The dude is still an overcosted pansy, of course, but t-stomp has made him at least mostly functional against T3(-4?) infantry blocks, as well as the few smaller units I'm happy to send him into. Really it's his flight (with its ability to get roar where it can shine) and awesome model that sell him for me.

- Salvage

Sadly, that's the feeling I get as well (overpriced, fragile) although I think using him the way you've suggested could go a long way toward disrupting the Dwarf gun line that I'm always up against. I hadn't considered Bloodcurdling Roar, thanks for the tip.

I had considered giving him Lore of Shadows (with flight, he can get into a prime spot to cast Pendulum) but I worry that he starts getting kind of expensive and is even more vulnerable without the Mark of Tzeentch.

Forget spell levels, your other casters are cheaper and more protected and you'd hate for your super expensive caster to get a Miscast.

They can be very killy and they have some interesting options in terms of upgrades. A 4+ Ward is very nice.

Best deamon pinrce tactic is use it as a paper weight. If that does not work he makes a really good over priced cannon hunter

I agree he is over cost and as was said fragile.
This makes me sad because I have the super sexy belakor model unbuilt and them not being very good dosnt make me really want to build him.

Boss does have a good idea tho with just mot and roar.

cowpow16 wrote:Boss does have a good idea tho with just mot and roar.

DukeRustfield wrote:Forget spell levels, your other casters are cheaper and more protected and you'd hate for your super expensive caster to get a Miscast..

One of the reasons my prince is so cheap is so I can fit in a level 4 alongside him. Not a level 4 with much equipment, but certainly enough to get the lead out

- Salvage

He's not bad with just one wizard level and Third Eye of Awesome, though

Just go for the IF spell and hope for the best! He can weather everything on the list except for the under-4 results.

I figured you made him cheap so you had another lord choice.
I wish they were cheaper that would make them awesome because you could have a kitted out lord and a dp would be great.

I wish they could join units and get LOS.... then they MIGHT be worth it

here is what Daemon princes need to be viable.

4+ ward standard(Tzeentch makes it 3+)

4+ armor optional upgrade

level 1 wizard standard and can always pick the rule book lores regardless of mark(marks unlock the corresponding lore as an option)

Johnny-Crass wrote:I wish they could join units and get LOS.... then they MIGHT be worth it

WoC's MC unit when the new book hits: chosen riding daemon princes!

- Salvage

Boss I was thinking more of Shaggoth Shock Calv

Johnny-Crass wrote:Boss I was thinking more of Shaggoth Shock Calv

Now that's crazy talk. MC need a MB as a base, so I suppose we can compromise: daemon princes riding dragon ogres

- Salvage

Boss Salvage wrote: so I suppose we can compromise: daemon princes riding dragon ogres

Sigged

Exaulted champ on disc is a better and far cheaper warmachine killer.
Sorc lord is a cheaper, and better wizard (thanks to arcane selection).

He's expensive and fun, and did I mention expensive?
IMO, he should be able to get chaos armor. It kind of sucks how easy it is to shoot him down with crossbows/skinks.

The best use for him is stick him on a round base and give him lash.
The 2nd best use is paint him up pretty and go for sportsmenship, comp and painting prizes.


-Matt

DP is better in WoC than in DoC. And I keep typing that because I still don't understand. And neither one of them is good.

The Doc one actually has SOME role. The cheapest lord is him at 300 and then it goes 450 for a basic one.

I say put no points in him as he already has too much. He's still a killy force with a 5 ward and T. A chaos armor one would indeed be sick. And make them even beter vs. DoC ;(

But the ward save is 5, as not even Daemon Lords go lower unless named or Tz Hero.

DukeRustfield wrote:DP is better in WoC than in DoC. And I keep typing that because I still don't understand. And neither one of them is good.

The Doc one actually has SOME role. The cheapest lord is him at 300 and then it goes 450 for a basic one.

I say put no points in him as he already has too much. He's still a killy force with a 5 ward and T. A chaos armor one would indeed be sick. And make them even beter vs. DoC ;(

But the ward save is 5, as not even Daemon Lords go lower unless named or Tz Hero.

DoC character can get armor (khorne), ignore magic weapons and armor (khorne), Armor and Regnerate (Nurgle) or a slight increase in survival vs warmachines (Robes).
WoC princes get a very expensive give that only works against BS based shooting, and not much else.

-Matt

DoC princes also get ASF, so they might hit something in combat. Though no roar

- Salvage

HawaiiMatt wrote:DoC character can get armor (khorne), ignore magic weapons and armor (khorne), Armor and Regnerate (Nurgle) or a slight increase in survival vs warmachines (Robes).

That creates a DP that costs: 350, 385, 385, 325.

I think it's somewhat hard to justify spending that much on a DP which are overpriced to begin with.

I recently purchased and assembled a Daemon Prince for my Cav focused (I know, I know) WoC.

I am thinking of running him as a level 2 caster, probably Lore of Tzeentch for the extra Ward save (though Shadow is bloody tempting), with Stream of Corruption. I don't see why Roar is particularly good, can someone lay it out for me?

I am also toying with running him as a level three with Third Eye of Tzeentch. Any input on that? He's going to be a big points sink either way, but the rest of the list is fast moving and hits hard, I think a Daemon Prince fits with it.
( the list is:
Lord: Daemon Prince, as above
Hero:
Khorne BSB on Juggernaut, Shield, 5+ Ward Save item, 20 point magic sword (to be decided).
Core:
2x10 Khorne Marauder Horsemen with Flails, LA, full command
2x5 Warhounds
5 Undivided Marauder Horsemen with Shields, musician.
Special:
5 Khorne Knights with Ranger Banner (poss. a different banner) full command.
In higher point games:
6 Dragon Ogres with Additional Hand Weapons + Champ.
Rare:
Scylla
Shaggoth with Additional Hand Weapon)

Roar is good for sniping lone characters and taking that last wound off a unit so they panic.

There is also the debated ability to use it when you are in CC, if you have TLOS to an unengaged unit(The ability isn't a shooting attack)

I favour stream of corruption then, simply because it CAN be used in CC, and it is a more powerful shooting attack.

Looks like a crazy fun list to try out, Da Boss! I don't personally think he needs 3 wizards levels- makes him truly a points sink. I've only ever tried 1 level with third eye, but absolutely loved it!

Your chaos knights hit really hard and can still rock in 8th... I got rolled by some in my last tournament . A killy mounted chaos lord makes them insane, if you decide to swap out the DP at some point.

Edit: Ninja'ed, I also favor stream of corruption! But only on a cheap DP... with 3 wizard levels he should not be going anywhere near combat! And the stream will tempt you... unless you convince yourself to only use it in the shooting phase . But Roar dovetails nicely with a casting DP.

Cheers RiTides! My biggest fear is that the Khorne units will be too easily baited or manipulated. I don't expect it to beat everything it faces, it's mostly a painting/modelling project.

I haven't used mine yet, but he is finally assembled. I would have to agree with BS (hmm.. maybe I shouldn't shorten that ) that just the awesomeness of the model is reason enough to field one. Mine is on the too expensive side at 440 points; level 2, 3rd eye, and roar.

Da Boss, I'm liking your list. I've rethought mine since I first started picking up WoC and now I am building towards 2 large units of warriors and 2 large units of knights to go with my DP and hellcannon with some other stuff sprinkled in.

I think they look great. But 440 points! For those points you could get a Chaos Lord with a Juggernaut a 3+ ward (4+ talisman and TZ) a 1+ armor save, any 55pt magic weapon, 50 pts of gifts...basically a god.

You can't ride a Jugger and have MoT at the same time.

Oh, yeah. I'm not a WoC master was just throwing around some basic numbers on how crazy powerful a 440pt CL could be.

boogeyman wrote:I would have to agree with BS (hmm.. maybe I shouldn't shorten that )

If the glove fits ...

Grey Templar wrote:Roar is good for sniping lone characters and taking that last wound off a unit so they panic.

Being able to wound anything on 6+ now, it's good at hurting any unit made up of a single model, in addition to the small elite units (i.e. knights) it used to mess with. For me this mostly means war machines - jump 20", roar at one, if still alive charge it next turn, if not charge another one - but it can also mean monsters or whatever as you get him into position for rears / flanks. Also, I run Lore of Fire, so flaming sword makes those roars wound on 5+

Also, I tend to not like one use items, hence preferring roar over stream. Though stream is certainly awesome, and if I had 20 points I'd take them both on my budget DP.

Da Boss wrote:I am also toying with running him as a level three with Third Eye of Tzeentch. Any input on that? He's going to be a big points sink either way, but the rest of the list is fast moving and hits hard, I think a Daemon Prince fits with it.
( the list is:
Lord: Daemon Prince, as above
Hero:
Khorne BSB on Juggernaut, Shield, 5+ Ward Save item, 20 point magic sword (to be decided).
Core:
2x10 Khorne Marauder Horsemen with Flails, LA, full command
2x5 Warhounds
5 Undivided Marauder Horsemen with Shields, musician.
Special:
5 Khorne Knights with Ranger Banner (poss. a different banner) full command.
In higher point games:
6 Dragon Ogres with Additional Hand Weapons + Champ.
Rare:
Scylla
Shaggoth with Additional Hand Weapon)

You want some help on this list? You could do better on your jugger hero and his knight escort. Thinking along these lines:

Exalted Hero - MoK, BSB, dawnstone, helm of many eyes, halberd
5 Knights - MoK, blasted standard, full command

Jugger is a murder machine (5 rerolled S6 attaks) with a rocking save (1+ rerolled), and his unit gives him the 5+ ward vs artillery snipes. Normally I'd go paranoid and put the charmed shield on him somehow, but the points don't work out, and I also think that this list, with the drogres and the shaggoth and the DP, presents a LOT of high value targets for enemy artillery to choose between. And then the DP will be killing said artillery Turn 2, so think fast, gunline.

Also, give your undivided horsemen throwing axes, nice option and gives them a little more to do with their free rallying selves.

- Salvage