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i have been playing for several years now and am quite accomplished with tau, guard, and marines
however since the beginning i have wanted to get into Necrons.
finally the chance came but i saw that a new codex was coming out so i waited
now i am ready once again to venture into the world of the Necron

where do i start??

i want to get a basic necron army up and running fairly soon and on a fairly limited budget.

any ideas for starters??
units to get and units to avoid??

thanks for any help

Emperor protects

-Kane

Well it all depends on your playstyle. Seeing as you play tau, you'll probably want more shooty, so in that case steer away from the lychguard/triarch praetorians they are CC orientated. Also, which units do you like the look of/you think are cool? Start from there.

Also, read the codex if you havent already, and start from there. btw what codexes are predominately in play in your local area?

i would prefer a shooty list but if necrons work better in assault then i can do that too. i fight almost all of the codices where i play. plenty of guard and marines, nids, tau, eldar and the dark, and also one sisters player.

Have you read the codex yet?

Units let's see...

When it comes to HQ, go regular overlord, or destroyer lord, A small court isn't a bad idea but I recommend that you try to convert as much as you can here. If you can, get a Command Barge as well

Elites: C'tan Shard (Not necessary but not a bad addition)

Troops: Immortals and Warriors both have their uses, Immortals get S5 weapons selections and 3+ armor save; Warriors get decent squad size and with 4+ armor save and RP they become an annoying speed bump, adding a Lord with ResOrb makes them even more so.

Fast Attack: Wraiths or Scarab farm or mix of both, Best way to get wraiths right now probably is via purchasing a Ghost Ark and using the Warrior torso and head (some shaving off required on the arms crossing their chests) and extended spines to make some Wraiths. And if you want, it's not too hard of a conversion to make a Triarch Stalker (Elite option) out of the Ghost Ark which isn't a bad Elite choice either.

Heavy Support: As far as current models go... Probably the Annihilation Barge. However, if you can get your hands on Tomb Spyders, that's not a bad idea either.

Personally I find the 2 variants of barges to be a good buy. They are very easy to magnetize so you will have a Catacomb Command Barge as well as an Annihilation Barge. Two Overlords are included as well which can be used for cryptek conversions or you can field two overlords for access to more crypteks.

For troops I like large 20 man block warriors with a Overlord with Phaeron, Rez Orb, Scythe, and Mind Shackle Scarabs. Throw in a tremor staff cryptek with seismic crucible and you can mess with assault units at 36"

Many people like Tesla Immortals as well (me included).

And scarabs are a staple in the New codex. Work really well for tar pitting things weaker than Strength 6 and chew through armor. Spyder support is optional but really helps if trying to use scarabs for more than a distraction as certain things really butcher scarabs.

Crypteks with Eldrich Lance and Solar Pulse are also very useful. Str8 Ap2 shooting as well as the ability to create night fighting in the opponents shooting phase all for 55pts

The barges are a great deal, compared to other offerings in the model line. Two fantastic vehicle options and an overlord for around $25 on ebay.

Scarabs are definitely not to be ignored, a super cheap tarpit that happens to be amazing at de-meching an army.

The Immortal and lychguard boxes give you a lot of extra bits for conversion, enough to assemble royal courts out of deathmark heads and lychguard bodies, as well as the variety of weapons to represent the different cryptek staves. Far better than the individual cryptek blisters.

According to rumors, the Necron 2nd wave is going to be appearing mid january (which seems strangely early for a second wave) but it should include Triarch Stalkers, Spyders & Wraiths, Scythes, and Tomb Blades.

The tomb blades look irredeemable, in a codex jammed with excellent fast attack choices, they don't really stand out as a viable unit. I've never seen them used.

The Stalkers are interesting, I haven't seen them used enough to have a solid opinion of them; but they look like fantastic support choices for a warrior/Royal court based army.

Wraiths are definitely a stand-out unit, and Reecius has posted a great conversion guide on frontlinegaming.com to make them out of spare bits; as the old metal ones are going for a premium on ebay. You might be better off waiting until the second wave to invest though.

Speaking of Second Wave, I really feel like the Night Scythe is a must-have unit. The mobility it offers is amazing, a high capacity super-sonic transport, that happens to be armed with a very effective gun and the ability to fire that gun at cruising speed; it can also deep strike, making it quite possibly the best dedicated-transport (considering cost) in the current meta.

Immortals are 17 point MEq models with two very nice shooting options, sure they have a low Initiative, but they also have RP which essentially makes their 'real' cost around 14 PPM. Warriors are equally cost effective, but the limitations of rapid fire weapons and 4+ armor save means that they're less tactically versatile, unless complemented by a Phaeron with a ressurection orb and/or within 6" of a ghost ark. (which brings their 'real' cost up above the immortals)

Reecius and Jy2 are both proponents of the Scarab Farm build, which requires at least 2-3 boxes of warriors, 1-2 ghost arks, 2 overlords, a couple crypteks, 5-6 wraiths, 8-9 Spyders, and at least 20 scarab bases, sometimes more.

Destroyers seem to have taken a back seat to scarabs and wraiths, but still remain impressive shooting units, and with the rumored changes in 6e, will most likely return to prominence. (Preferred enemy may indeed affect shooting, not just assault)

For higher point games, the Praetorians and Lychguard have their places; but at the moment, they're not very popular choices.

Though all of this aside; the Tau are rumored to have an early 2012 release with a massive new model line; so as one Shas'o to another, you may want to save some of the GW tax to upgrade a soon to be obsolete shelf full of crisis suits.

If Preferred enemy gets to affect shooting as well. I'm going to be so happy... and so conflicted, should I bring Wraiths, scarabs, or Destroyers? (Though Heavy Destroyers suddenly having pretty much twin linked? Oh so tempting....)

If -and that is a *big* 'if'- PE starts to affect shooting in 6th Ed., then Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers will become hands-down the best unit in the codex. Again. In fact, under those circumstances Heavy Destroyers might take a run at the best unit in all of 40k.

But again, that is a *big* 'if'.

Anyways, here's where I would start: (and I'm a cheap so I'm seriously taking a budget into account for this advice)

1. Catacomb Command Barge / Annihilation Barge
... buy at least two of these, maybe even three. Each box gives you the option for either model, and you can just swap out the command bridge for the TL Tesla Arc with zero difficulty (in fact, it comes semi-pinned for you out of the box) and it also comes with an Overlord. For $33.00, you just cannot beat that price, given that an Overlord is about $19.00 on its own. Oh, and both barge options are amongst the best options in the codex. The Annihilation Barge is an absolute steal at 90 points. Those 4x TL Tesla Arcs are just nasty at Str 7, and will eat through MEQs and light transports very quickly. The Command Barge is also an excellent choice as a dedicated transport for your Overlords because of the Sweep Attacks combined with a Warscythe. They will be a constant threat to your enemy's armour and infantry alike (the chance to allocate wounds yourself from a Warscythe is something every squad with a hidden PF should fear)

2. Immortals
... They cost 4 points more than a Warrior, and are just so worth it. I'll start with their drawback, because they only have one as far as I'm concerned: Their transport is questionable so far. I don't know what kind of rules 6th Ed. will bring for Fliers, but as of right now the Night Scythe is somewhat of a gamble, whereas the Ghost Ark that the Warriors use is actually pretty reliable against anything that's not dedicated anti-tank (and if it is dedicated anti-tank, then what difference does it make?) Now, on to the pros: They get a 3+ save and 5+ RP, and they can take Assault 1 Tesla Carbines, which are just so, so good. They average out to 100% accuracy thanks to the Tesla rule, and have a 24" range after they've moved. They're worse than Marines in CC, but they're much better out of it.

3. Crypteks
... Hands down the best unit in the codex. Their diversity is unparalleled, and they can have some very nasty abilities. One of their options is 35 points and comes with a 36" Str 8 AP 2 Assault 1 gun. However, they will butcher your wallet. I made 10 with Praetorian heads (I like these more than Deathmark heads), arms & staffs, and Warrior bodies & legs. Just buying the bits alone will cost you less than $20.00 on eBay over the cost of the Warriors. Much better than paying $18.00 each for finecast from GW.

This is where I would start my core, and then season to taste after that.

2x Overlord
2x Catacomb Command Barge
2x Annihilation Barge
20x Immortals
4x Harbinger of Destruction

azazel the cat wrote:
2. Immortals
... They cost 4 points more than a Warrior, and are just so worth it. I'll start with their drawback, because they only have one as far as I'm concerned: Their transport is questionable so far. I don't know what kind of rules 6th Ed. will bring for Fliers, but as of right now the Night Scythe is somewhat of a gamble

I agree with everything almost else; but I'm a staunch supporter of the night scythe, at least in my preferred lists. I think the fact that it's a transport that can cover 36" in one turn, and has a 36" effective range with a very respectable gun makes up for the relatively low armor (which is still superior to that of the comparably ponderous razorback/rhino). It fills out an immortal list with amazing mobility and not insubstantial firepower. Yes, it will crash 50% of the time from a penetrating hit if it's moving flat out, but it does get that cover save, considering the distance it can move, and the availability of night fighting, you can pretty much guarantee it's going to accomplish what it set out to do before it gets shot down.

That is a good point. I just don't like the idea of using the Nightscythe as a one-turn throwaway transport like a Drop Pod due to the Nightscythe's point cost. This apprehension is likely just due to a combination of my dislike for that concept and my acceptance of a footslogging Immortal phalanx. (which is pretty nasty with Tesla and a Res Orb in 10x man units)

Either way, whether you love the Nightscythe or not, Immortals are an incredibly good troops choice when you take Tesla guns.

EDIT: Oh, and to the OP:

Avoid Flayed Ones like they're strangers with no pants. Some people may tell you that they can hold their own, but that's under nominal circumstances. They suck just about across the board. They can't capture objectives, they don't have the greatest damage output (they're a tar pit at best), their models are amongst the ugliest in 40k and they are incredibly expensive for what you get, dollar-wise.

Thanks for the advice all.
i am going to look into some cheap imortals (33 for 5 is a bit pricey)
i am going to take a serious look at the nightscythe but i am more a imortals resorb lord guy.

also how is the doomsday ark??

thanks again

-Kane

EDIT: also thoughts on the deathmarks???

Doomsday ark is best used in pairs. Many people nag about the issue of moving it, but I've found it to be a good T3 hunter when moving.

Deathmarks are currently considered a no go.

King Pariah wrote:Doomsday ark is best used in pairs. Many people nag about the issue of moving it, but I've found it to be a good T3 hunter when moving.

Deathmarks are currently considered a no go.

I personally don't like the Doomsday Ark, just because it competes for a spot with the Annihilation Barge, whose praise I cannot sing enough. The Barge is basically a MEQ murdering machine all game long, and when you compare two barges to one Ark for the same price, the Ark just doesn't come close in my mind.

As to Deathmarks... I think they are one of the most fantastic units in the codex. I use two 5-man units of Deathmarks, and each unit gets a Harbinger of Despair Cryptek with an Abyssal Staff and a Veil of Darkness. Each unit will cost 155 points with this loadout, and you get to 'mark' any two units of the opposing army. I have found these to be fantastic assassination squads, that can usually deliver 7 wounds from the Deathmarks and 4-5 AP1 wounds from the Cryptek in a single round of shooting after VoD'ing close to the marked unit. Beyond that initial punch, I've found it really nice to have ten RF sniper rifles in the army, as they're no worse than the Warriors' guns, and if you need to lean on them to take out some high-toughness enemy units, then that's just gravy. (and if you mishap off a VoD and end up back in reserve, then you get to re-deploy again and pick yet another unit to mark. Evil.)

azazel the cat wrote:

King Pariah wrote:Doomsday ark is best used in pairs. Many people nag about the issue of moving it, but I've found it to be a good T3 hunter when moving.

Deathmarks are currently considered a no go.

I personally don't like the Doomsday Ark, just because it competes for a spot with the Annihilation Barge, whose praise I cannot sing enough. The Barge is basically a MEQ murdering machine all game long, and when you compare two barges to one Ark for the same price, the Ark just doesn't come close in my mind.

As to Deathmarks... I think they are one of the most fantastic units in the codex. I use two 5-man units of Deathmarks, and each unit gets a Harbinger of Despair Cryptek with an Abyssal Staff and a Veil of Darkness. Each unit will cost 155 points with this loadout, and you get to 'mark' any two units of the opposing army. I have found these to be fantastic assassination squads, that can usually deliver 7 wounds from the Deathmarks and 4-5 AP1 wounds from the Cryptek in a single round of shooting after VoD'ing close to the marked unit. Beyond that initial punch, I've found it really nice to have ten RF sniper rifles in the army, as they're no worse than the Warriors' guns, and if you need to lean on them to take out some high-toughness enemy units, then that's just gravy. (and if you mishap off a VoD and end up back in reserve, then you get to re-deploy again and pick yet another unit to mark. Evil.)

In fact, I'd prefer the Annihilation Barge any day over the Doomsday Ark. They are cheap and effective.

You provide a nice use of the Deathmarks. Two units able to move around with VoD can be a serious threat. The enemy will target them as soon as they get close. But when they've marked (and snipered) opposing squads they'll have done their job.

Thanks alot for the ideas. my initial plan now is to grab 2 squads of warriors (i know the eventual plan is for immortals but they are more expensive, that will come later) and two barges.

As far as i know that would constitute a functional army, am i correct? as you get a lord with the ark.

later additions may be a squad or two of deathmarks.

also thoughts on the named characters? take or leave them home??

thanks again

-Kane

In lower point games, I would leave the named characters.

There is one guy (don't have my codex handy) who upgrades a unit of troops... I'm strongly considering him for my army.

Anpu-adom wrote:In lower point games, I would leave the named characters.

There is one guy (don't have my codex handy) who upgrades a unit of troops... I'm strongly considering him for my army.

Illuminor Szeras, and I agree he's pretty nails as and HQ in lower point games. I run with him or a pretty basic overlord w/phaeron in most 500 to 1K lists..

Arankyr The Traveller is really the only one I'd consider for low point games, throw him in a CCB and his affect can be compounded. (He upgrades one unit of Immortals to have Counter Attack and Furious Charge I believe). He also can hijack an enemy vehicle during shooting and fire all it's weapons. And I think he's the only named Lord who has a Warscythe.

Man, I love Anrakyr in a CCB. Against the right list he can be a 1 man wrecking ball. Able to sweep, mind control, and assault all in the same turn is just brutal, and the furious charge he gives a squad of immortals isn't easily disregarded; on top of the royal court he can bring to a fight... he's a great HQ choice for 1500+.

azazel the cat wrote:

Avoid Flayed Ones like they're strangers with no pants. Some people may tell you that they can hold their own, but that's under nominal circumstances. They suck just about across the board. They can't capture objectives, they don't have the greatest damage output (they're a tar pit at best), their models are amongst the ugliest in 40k and they are incredibly expensive for what you get, dollar-wise.

The last statement not withstanding, that's just not true. 0.019230769 Wounds Vs MEQ/Point spent is just a hair below TH/SS terms 0.020833333 Wounds Vs MEQ/Point spent, and they do it at a higher initiative. They also do it on our more resilient frame in terms of /points spent (3 T4 4+/5+ RP wounds versus 1 T4 2+/5++ wound). I don't think anyone here will question TH/SS terms offensive output.

Their really one and only draw back is mobility. However use them as a screen to protect your warriors/immortals or DS a big squad deep and make your opponent have to deal with them on way or another. This usually results in you opponent moving in a direction you want him to move or pouring a lot of fire power into a unit that's designed to eat bullets. It's a win win.

Flayed Ones are I2, and dollar-wise they cost as much as terminators. They are only even slightly better than worthless in units of 10, which will cost $110.00 US, and only give you 130 points toward your army. For that same dollar-value, you can get 10 Deathmarks (that do not look like a cat coughed them up) and a Barge, that comes with a Lord.

Even suggesting to someone who is starting Necrons on a budget that Flayed Ones are not the bane of their efforts is very irresponsible.


EDIT: Yeah, Anrakyr is the man. He'll cost you 65 points more than a regular Overlord, but he comes with Mind in the Machine, the Pyrrhian Eternals upgrade to your Immortals and a Tachyon Arrow. Put him in a Barge and turn him loose. It's theoretically possible for him to wreck 3 vehicles in a single turn. (Sweep the first, MitM the second to shoot the third, then Tachyon Arrow & assault the second. This will almost never happen, but the one time it does will be the last time you ever consider not using him above 1250 games)

azazel the cat wrote:Flayed Ones are I2, and dollar-wise they cost as much as terminators. They are only even slightly better than worthless in units of 10, which will cost $110.00 US, and only give you 130 points toward your army. For that same dollar-value, you can get 10 Deathmarks (that do not look like a cat coughed them up) and a Barge, that comes with a Lord.

Even suggesting to someone who is starting Necrons on a budget that Flayed Ones are not the bane of their efforts is very irresponsible.


EDIT: Yeah, Anrakyr is the man. He'll cost you 65 points more than a regular Overlord, but he comes with Mind in the Machine, the Pyrrhian Eternals upgrade to your Immortals and a Tachyon Arrow. Put him in a Barge and turn him loose. It's theoretically possible for him to wreck 3 vehicles in a single turn. (Sweep the first, MitM the second to shoot the third, then Tachyon Arrow & assault the second. This will almost never happen, but the one time it does will be the last time you ever consider not using him above 1250 games)

Awesome, I love being irresponsible on the interwebs.

The model and pricing are valid arguments, though for the models completely subjective (not that I disagree, I don't think they are awful but not a big fan either) but to say "They are only even slightly better than worthless in units of 10" is just ridiculous. Point for point they are the best CC units in the dex. It may not seem like they are, but they are even better the Wraiths (minus the manoeuvrability). I could extrapolate all the math for you in terms of offensive capabilities versus survivability and the like, but I kind of already did so.

Telling some one not to use a unit that you have either never used yourself or clearly didn't understand how to use properly is also a tad irresponsible. I know you have some solid ideas azazel and I'm not trying to call you out, I'm just saying you've missed something when it comes to evaluating the FO's (outside of your appraisal of the cost of the models, I do think GW did some funky maths when appraising this box).

this sounds like an awesome start.

how are warriors looking to start with? the boxes look good, 12 warriors and a few scarabs for 33 bucks seems awesome to me.

how are they gameplay wise?

i know how good scarabs are and have seen them used.
a land raider with armor 1 all around is awesome!.

thanks

-Kane

Warriors are fine to start with. They aren't powerhouse units (but what standard troop choice is?) If you have a Overlord with Phaeron and a Res Orb in the unit, they stand up really nicely. Back that up with some of the cryptek options and a ghost arc and you have something that needs a serious chunk of your opponents army to deal with.

I'd suggest that you pick up some extra 40mm bases (if you don't have a pile of them lying around, that is.) Put the scarabs 3 to a base instead of 4.

Unless you love the way they look, I'd also glue the gauss flayer rods and paint over them. It really simplifies assembly and helps to create a more cohesive army appearance.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Flayed Ones are I2, and dollar-wise they cost as much as terminators. They are only even slightly better than worthless in units of 10, which will cost $110.00 US, and only give you 130 points toward your army. For that same dollar-value, you can get 10 Deathmarks (that do not look like a cat coughed them up) and a Barge, that comes with a Lord.

Even suggesting to someone who is starting Necrons on a budget that Flayed Ones are not the bane of their efforts is very irresponsible.


EDIT: Yeah, Anrakyr is the man. He'll cost you 65 points more than a regular Overlord, but he comes with Mind in the Machine, the Pyrrhian Eternals upgrade to your Immortals and a Tachyon Arrow. Put him in a Barge and turn him loose. It's theoretically possible for him to wreck 3 vehicles in a single turn. (Sweep the first, MitM the second to shoot the third, then Tachyon Arrow & assault the second. This will almost never happen, but the one time it does will be the last time you ever consider not using him above 1250 games)

Awesome, I love being irresponsible on the interwebs.

The model and pricing are valid arguments, though for the models completely subjective (not that I disagree, I don't think they are awful but not a big fan either) but to say "They are only even slightly better than worthless in units of 10" is just ridiculous. Point for point they are the best CC units in the dex. It may not seem like they are, but they are even better the Wraiths (minus the manoeuvrability). I could extrapolate all the math for you in terms of offensive capabilities versus survivability and the like, but I kind of already did so.

Telling some one not to use a unit that you have either never used yourself or clearly didn't understand how to use properly is also a tad irresponsible. I know you have some solid ideas azazel and I'm not trying to call you out, I'm just saying you've missed something when it comes to evaluating the FO's (outside of your appraisal of the cost of the models, I do think GW did some funky maths when appraising this box).

No worries, I'm always up for some friendly debate.

It's so secret that I think Flayed Ones are rubbish. One of the reasons is as follows: Saying they're the best CC unit in the codex is like saying your toddler is the toughest kid in his preschool, so you're going to get him to fight Joe Frazier (RIP).

After a deeper read i have stumbled across the doom scythe.
thoughts??
the death ray looks fantastic (also kudos to GW for the B movie name for the weapon).
the transport option for it looks good as well.

question on the rules for the transport though. it says that if it is destroyed that the units in it go back into reserve, does this mean that you can "reload" the transport once you have dropped off units?? ex. drop units then pull a unit from reserve into it and drop them the next turn.

-Kane

You can re-load the Night Scythe in the exact same way that you can re-load a Rhino. The Monolith is the only vehicle that can perform the action that you're thinking of.

The Night Scythe's rule is just that the units it was transporting are not left in the open to be shot at when the transport is destroyed. It's a tradeoff, as the units are safer this way, but they're also forced back into reserve and potentially out of their own function. (If you have a Monolith as a backup plan, this becomes very minor)

azazel the cat wrote:
It's so secret that I think Flayed Ones are rubbish. One of the reasons is as follows: Saying they're the best CC unit in the codex is like saying your toddler is the toughest kid in his preschool, so you're going to get him to fight Joe Frazier (RIP).

My Toddler would so kick Frazier's dead ass...

finally thoughts on the gauss cannon versus tesla for the barges?

a final thanks for all the advice.

final purchase list, 1 box warriors, 1 box immortals, 2x barges

should get me a good starter.

any final advice before i get to building, painting, playing??

thanks again

-Kane