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2012/01/04 21:11:51
Subject: When will the NHL put a STOP! to this Stupidity?
Enough of this crap. Carcillo should be gone for the season and made an example of. 5 suspensions since '08 hasn't given him a clue yet?!
Keep this crap up and we will soon see a guy get killed by one of these tallantless 'goons' who are only in the league because money-grubbing morons are more concerned about selling hockey in the desert than they are about icing a quality sport!
This kind of silly brutality belongs in MMA or boxing, not in hockey.
These kinds of hits ended my own hockey carreer. Sure it was only city-level rep, but it still doesn't make it any easier to now be sitting on the sidelines and never be able to lace-up and play a meaningfull game again because of danergous, cowardly hits that have resulted in me suffering 8 concusions over 18 years of playing.
2012/01/04 21:12:11
Subject: When will the NHL put a STOP! to this Stupidity?
For the uninitiated amongst us, what was wrong about that? I thought that sort of thing was par for the course in ice hockey or is there more of a distinction between amount of force allowable?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/04 21:22:52
Some Edmonton player got checked and ended up getting hurt because he doesn't know how to take a hit. He then rolled over onto the Chicago player's leg, taking him out of the game.
Really quite a terrible call, giving the Chicago player 5 minutes.
filbert wrote:For the uninitiated amongst us, what was wrong about that? I thought that sort of thing was par for the course in ice hockey or is there more of a distinction between amount of force allowable?
Boarding - A boarding penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who checks or pushes a defenseless opponent in such a manner that causes the opponent to hit or impact the boards violently in the boards. The severity of the penalty, based upon the impact with the boards, shall be at the discretion of the Referee.
text removed by Moderation team.
2012/01/04 21:47:42
Subject: When will the NHL put a STOP! to this Stupidity?
filbert wrote:For the uninitiated amongst us, what was wrong about that?
The problem with emotional reactions to hits like this in hockey is that the injury should'nt be the deciding factor on the call or if it is legal in the game.
Either a type of play/hit is illegal or it isn't.
Take for example the hit by Chara on Pacci into the stantion between benches: That type of hit was being thrown for many many years prior, and it didn't always even draw a call.
Players have always gone out of their way to send oppossing players into that divider. I have personally seen it scores of times since I started watching hockey in the late eighties, and seen it scores more on televised events, clips on youtube, etc. etc.
Then suddenly because pacci gets hurt taking a hit that has been delivered hundreds of times prior it is deemed a horrid thing/crime/dirty hit/etc. etc. simply becasue he was injured, when if he had jumped up and carried on like many have done after taking that same hit it would have been forgotten by games end.
Either that type f hit it illegal or it isn't. You can't call make your call based upon injury itself becasue every player is different and every circumstance has so many variables.
The NHL should focus on cleaning up grey areas and writing clear rules and cleaning up officiating (which is wildly inconsistant and sometimes game deciding) not getting carried away by fan/player emotions...
filbert wrote:For the uninitiated amongst us, what was wrong about that? I thought that sort of thing was par for the course in ice hockey or is there more of a distinction between amount of force allowable?
He boarded him, and checked from the back. What's really worse for anyone who plays is that Carcillo baited him for the hit or at least that's what I see. It's not necessarily an uncommon thing in younger play to but the puck on the boards as a wing to put out a solid hit on a defender. It's normally a revenge shot too. I watched it twice and it looks like Carcillo initially cleared the puck hoping for a hit then it developed before he intended but he either couldn't or wouldn't slow down. Back in the days before helmets were mandated this could have been a killer or a career ending hit.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/01/04 22:06:11
Subject: When will the NHL put a STOP! to this Stupidity?
CT GAMER wrote: The NHL should focus on cleaning up grey areas and writing clear rules and cleaning up officiating (which is wildly inconsistant and sometimes game deciding) not getting carried away by fan/player emotions...
I think you have it right here. The NHL is never going to go to the international size rinks just because they're so reliant on ticket sales as a percentage of their income.
What they need to do is make head shots illegal...period...and then back it up. Head injuries will still happen, but you'll clean up a lot of this targeting the head nonsense. There are far too many judgment calls in hockey, and that's what leads to the inconsistent officiating.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/01/04 22:23:41
Subject: Re:When will the NHL put a STOP! to this Stupidity?
Problem is the NHL is the schizophrenic caretaker of a sport whose traditions they can't seem to decide to abandon or venerate.
They talk out one side of their mouth about player safety being their prime concern and yet they tolerate and in many ways encourage fighting and big/borderline hits. They market fighting and big hits as a draw for their own sport at every chance they get...
I am as much of a hockey fan as anybody, but these two things o not jive with each other.
They want to honor hockey tradition and appease old time fans, but at the same time are driven to grow the fanbase outside of typical hockey fans (bring on the pink hats) by cleaning the game up and making it more "family friendly" to newcomers and casual fans. These two goals are often at odds.
They indeed need to establish some "zero tolerance" stances on some things, but that is hard to do when you also allow the players to bloody each other at center ice while fans and players hoot and holler their approval of big fights and crushing hits...
What really needs to be done (for a start and in conjunction with a rules/officiating clean up) is to put a hold on the advance and use of science of pad/protective equipment technology.
Fact is as the equipment has become lighter and yet ever more protective the players have gotten faster and more and more fearless. Hockey has been ever-increasingly "up-armoring" it's players, supposedly to increase safety, but it has actually created a culture of perceived invincibility and recklessness amoungst the players, particularly the pros who get bigger and faster every generation as well.
IF regulations on padding/equipment was overhauled to restrict/reduce the pads and what they can be made of and how they are designed the players would have to fear injury more and wouldn't throw their own bodies around like cocooned weapons as readily or often becaue it might be you that has a career ending injury just as much as your target...
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/01/04 22:27:17
dogma wrote:Another argument for the NHL to adopt international ice.
Still stupid hit by Carcillo, really stupid given his likely injury. It was boarding, a crosscheck, interference, and checking from behind.
Idiot.
Actually it wasn't a crosscheck, he seams to have his hands together and is not checking with the stick itself. It's not from behind either, he takes the angle and comes up under his rib cage. The only thing he is really guilty of is not waiting for his opponent to touch the puck first. If Gilbert had touched the puck that was mere inches from being touched there is absolutely nothing wrong with that hit. It's hockey, in the US it's supposed to be rough. That is how we like our games.
"There is an enormous amount of judgment involved in the application of this rule by the Referees. The onus is on the player applying the check to ensure his opponent is not in a vulnerable position and if so, he must avoid the contact. However, there is also a responsibility on the player with the puck to avoid placing himself in a dangerous and vulnerable position. This balance must be considered by the Referees when applying this rule."
When you are that close to the puck you know there is a target on your back. It's your job to judge if it is safe to go after said puck, if it's not then you back off. I've played too much hockey and lacrosse to to see this as anything but a fair aggressive play by both participants. The fact that he had not yet touched the puck is a complete technicality. Boards are meant to be racked.
It wasn't a head shot either. He again comes in clearly on the right rib cage.
The NFL head shot rule is a joke. I've watched James Harrison knock out too many Cleveland Browns, he got a one game suspension after his third illegal helmet to helmet.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/04 22:34:55
"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma
"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma
"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma
2012/01/04 22:29:34
Subject: Re:When will the NHL put a STOP! to this Stupidity?
rodgers37 wrote:I want to start watching Ice Hockey, who should I follow?
You want to be a New Jersey Devils fan. Come, join the Devils Legion!
Even growing up in Jersey, I've never met a Devils fan. Rangers all the way, yo.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/04 22:34:44
There are some who walk until their legs fail them and they fall to the ground. I find that respectable.
Then there are those who drag themselves further. I find that admirable.
2012/01/04 22:35:00
Subject: When will the NHL put a STOP! to this Stupidity?
rodgers37 wrote:I want to start watching Ice Hockey, who should I follow?
You want to be a New Jersey Devils fan. Come, join the Devils Legion!
Even growing up in Jersey, I've never met a Devils fan. Rangers all the way, yo.
Hell I'm from Cleveland and I'm a Devils fan, we don't have a hockey team so I picked the one with the coolest name. Not a front runner mind you. I picked them in 88 when they still wore those jerseys with the mint green piping.
"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma
"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma
"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma
2012/01/04 22:38:51
Subject: When will the NHL put a STOP! to this Stupidity?
rodgers37 wrote:I want to start watching Ice Hockey, who should I follow?
You want to be a New Jersey Devils fan. Come, join the Devils Legion!
Might want to watch the game tonight fist before making that committment...
Frackin' Bruins, if only Vancouver didn't choke... and by Vancouver I mean Luongo, I pin the blame on his head.
Even growing up in Jersey, I've never met a Devils fan. Rangers all the way, yo.
Psh, where'd you grow up, Bergen county? No self-respecting New Jerseyian that truly loves their state from the bottom of their heart would ever root for the Rangers... btw, keep in mind that this is coming from someone that was born and raised in New York City and was somewhat of a Rangers fan until he was about 13...
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2012/01/04 22:43:30
Subject: When will the NHL put a STOP! to this Stupidity?
biccat wrote:
Some Edmonton player got checked and ended up getting hurt because he doesn't know how to take a hit. He then rolled over onto the Chicago player's leg, taking him out of the game.
Really quite a terrible call, giving the Chicago player 5 minutes.
Boarding - A boarding penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who checks or pushes a defenseless opponent in such a manner that causes the opponent to hit or impact the boards violently in the boards. The severity of the penalty, based upon the impact with the boards, shall be at the discretion of the Referee.
So then, you're saying that forcing both your fists into the side of the other guys head while waving your stick in his face, only to then propel him off his feet forcefully into the boards when he can't see you, all the while completely ignoring the puck is basically exchanging pleasentries?!!
So he only, interfeared with the opposing player while also boarding & high sticking him to make a blaitently dangerous hit to a player who couldn't defend himself...
People who think this was a clean hit are just as big of a problem with hockey these days as the morons that make up the NHL 'Top Brass', the owners/GM's/coaches who sign these idiot goons to contracts and play them AND the equipment makers for giving us 30+ pounds of hard plastic body armour!
gorgon wrote:
CT GAMER wrote: The NHL should focus on cleaning up grey areas and writing clear rules and cleaning up officiating (which is wildly inconsistant and sometimes game deciding) not getting carried away by fan/player emotions...
I think you have it right here. The NHL is never going to go to the international size rinks just because they're so reliant on ticket sales as a percentage of their income.
What they need to do is make head shots illegal...period...and then back it up. Head injuries will still happen, but you'll clean up a lot of this targeting the head nonsense. There are far too many judgment calls in hockey, and that's what leads to the inconsistent officiating.
Ticket sales have little to do with why the NHL won't adopt the olympic sized ice. The owners won't do jack because it'll cost roughly $14 million per rink to upgrade the ice size! They'd lose the 'cheap seats' which don't earn them much anways as the ice level seats will always be stupidly expensive and you won't have less of them. (because you'll price both the first & seceond levels about 4-5x what the should be!)
It's laughable that the NHL is the only organised league left that has yet to adopt the 'Checking to the Head' rules not to mention the 'No Touch Icing' rules that should have been brought in 10 years ago due to the increased speed and size of the players.
As for judgment calls, the rules are pretty clear to on-ice officals; if a penalty results in injury, (ie: the player who was the victim of the illegal play has to leave the game), then you can only assess a major penalty or a match penalty. Of corse, officials are also allowed to assess a major/match penalty if they believe there was 'intent to injure' on the play, but typically that's damn obvious!
What the league needs to do is better clarify to officals what the definition of 'injury' is, for example is a player actually 'injured' if;
a) play has to be stopped due to the player being slow to get up/down on the ice?
b) they require assistance of teammates/trainer/doctor to get back to the bench?
c) they end up needing repairs in the locker room and/or have to spend time in the new quiet room?
d) they are unable to return to play at all? (at this point it's kinda a no-brainer!)
To me personally, they should define 'injured' as c) & d), ie: the victimised player and their team are losing a warm body for an unknown amount of time. This is how Hockey Canada treats it and to the best of my knowledge, how Hockey USA & the IIHF treat it as well.
The NHL is simply becoming nothing but a farce and if Carcillo isn't given a solid suspension, (10+ games), then it simply proves that the league cares feth-all about player safety and only about appealing to bloodthirsty idiots who have no clue what the game is really about!
2012/01/04 22:44:31
Subject: Re:When will the NHL put a STOP! to this Stupidity?
chaos0xomega wrote:
Psh, where'd you grow up, Bergen county? No self-respecting New Jerseyian that truly loves their state from the bottom of their heart would ever root for the Rangers... btw, keep in mind that this is coming from someone that was born and raised in New York City and was somewhat of a Rangers fan until he was about 13...
One over, actually.
Not a huge fan of Jersey, anyway. Here in the South, I can actually leave my house without worrying about gangbangers.
Hockey needs fewer hyper-aggressive asshats. This kind of thing isn't enjoyable for anyone but a masochist.
There are some who walk until their legs fail them and they fall to the ground. I find that respectable.
Then there are those who drag themselves further. I find that admirable.
2012/01/04 22:48:28
Subject: Re:When will the NHL put a STOP! to this Stupidity?
rodgers37 wrote:I want to start watching Ice Hockey, who should I follow?
You want to be a New Jersey Devils fan. Come, join the Devils Legion!
Even growing up in Jersey, I've never met a Devils fan. Rangers all the way, yo.
Flyers all the way. Only 2 games (4 points) behind your Rangers.... and we all know how NYR falls off after the All-Star game.
Of all the races of the universe the Squats have the longest memories and the shortest tempers. They are uncouth, unpredictably violent, and frequently drunk. Overall, I'm glad they're on our side!
Office of Naval Intelligence Research discovers 3 out of 4 sailors make up 75% of U.S. Navy.
"Madness is like gravity... All you need is a little push."
chaos0xomega wrote:
Psh, where'd you grow up, Bergen county? No self-respecting New Jerseyian that truly loves their state from the bottom of their heart would ever root for the Rangers... btw, keep in mind that this is coming from someone that was born and raised in New York City and was somewhat of a Rangers fan until he was about 13...
One over, actually.
Not a huge fan of Jersey, anyway. Here in the South, I can actually leave my house without worrying about gangbangers.
That explains a lot, lol. I'm in sussex county, pretty rural/backwater-y around these parts, not much in the way of gangbangers 'round here.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2012/01/04 22:55:21
Subject: Re:When will the NHL put a STOP! to this Stupidity?
Look the guy was going for the puck, it was in his zone of control. Yes he has to go for the puck, but at the same time the defensiveman has to rack him. It's the way the game is played. Either player could have backed off. Gilbert thought he could get away with it, he new Carcillo was on his back and he went for it...and paid for it. I've been on both ends of that call, nothing wrong with it. The closeness to the puck negates interference. Boarding is very subjective, it happens all game long and is an integral part of the game, what are you gonna do make the boards a safe zone?
If you watch the slow mo, the hit is perfect, the hands are together he comes up just under Gilberts arm pit, I think it actually took a lot of skill to get that hit right.
There are still plenty of goons in the NHL. You could always neuter the game, make more like women's lacrosse. But then noone and I mean no one would watch it.
Fact is, if they play was exactly the same, and both players just skated it off, there would be no issue. That play happens hundreds of times a game.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/04 23:02:05
"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma
"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma
"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma
2012/01/04 23:02:04
Subject: Re:When will the NHL put a STOP! to this Stupidity?
Andrew1975 wrote:Fact is, if they play was exactly the same, and both players just skated it off, there would be no issue. That play happens hundreds of times a game.
That people believe this about the NHL is exactly the problem.
I can't even respond to the rest of this without breaking forum rules, but my opinion of this poster has been made clear before.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2012/01/04 23:09:58
Subject: Re:When will the NHL put a STOP! to this Stupidity?
Andrew1975 wrote:Look the guy was going for the puck, it was in his zone of control. Yes he has to go for the puck, but at the same time the defensiveman has to rack him. It's the way the game is played. Either player could have backed off. Gilbert thought he could get away with it, he new Carcillo was on his back and he went for it...and paid for it. I've been on both ends of that call, nothing wrong with it. The closeness to the puck negates interference. Boarding is very subjective, it happens all game long and is an integral part of the game, what are you gonna do make the boards a safe zone?
If you watch the slow mo, the hit is perfect, the hands are together he comes up just under Gilberts arm pit, I think it actually took a lot of skill to get that hit right.
This.... There was also no high sticking call to be made here as Carcillo's was near his waist as he started the hit.
On the other side of things Gilbert, the defenseman, could have veered off away from the puck as he had help coming from the other side of the net.
If you watch the clip, you can see that Gilbert KNEW where Carcillo was. He looks right at him around the 5-6 second mark. Gilbert put himself in the position to be hit.
Was the hit more forcefull than required? Maybe. But you should also note that it cost the Blackhawks a player, a 5 minute powerplay disadvantage, and at least one goal.
Of all the races of the universe the Squats have the longest memories and the shortest tempers. They are uncouth, unpredictably violent, and frequently drunk. Overall, I'm glad they're on our side!
Office of Naval Intelligence Research discovers 3 out of 4 sailors make up 75% of U.S. Navy.
"Madness is like gravity... All you need is a little push."
Andrew1975 wrote:Fact is, if they play was exactly the same, and both players just skated it off, there would be no issue. That play happens hundreds of times a game.
That people believe this about the NHL is exactly the problem.
I can't even respond to the rest of this without breaking forum rules, but my opinion of this poster has been made clear before.
Same to you! And as you so often point out "Your feelings are irrelevant".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/04 23:16:46
"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma
"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma
"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma
No self-respecting New Jerseyian that truly loves their state from the bottom of their heart would ever root for the Rangers... 
