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I like the IG Penal Legion, but I feel the fluff is getting in the way of their effectiveness. I like them for their scout rule and sometimes good close combat ability.
So heres my idea for a replacement.

Imperial Guard Scouts

WS 4
BW 3
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 3
A 1 / 2
Ld 8
Sv 5+

1 Scout Sergeant
9 Scouts

Wargear:
Flak Armor, lasgun, laspistol, close-combat weapon and frag grenades.

Speical Rules: Scout, Stubborn, stealth, move through cover. Desperadoes, same as legion but you can choose your results.

Total points, 120 points per squad.

This is just a rough idea. I was thinking of dropping desperadoes all together and giving them weapons options like most squads. Not sure. Ideas?

I don't see how you can justify WS4 at least in Fluff terms

Since I didn't add any fluff, I'll point out that I was thinking something along the lines of Catachins. Tough, sneaky guys that get up close and beat your brains in.
The WS4 would represent the awesome skill in close combat.
And it'd be nice to have a decent close combat unit since 4th edition, where whole armies could be WS4.

I get what you're going for, I just don't see why they'd be useful. They'd get shredded by pretty much any other dedicated assault unit, and they will almost never get the first attack in.

Good point. Any suggestions...?

I don't know man, guard just aren't made to be good at CC, I could think of some things that would help, but wouldn't make much sense fluff wise. Power weapons on the sergeant, flak armor, some custom rule maybe? Something to heighten their initiative or lower the enemies'.

Hidden strike : the squad lies in wait in one of the pieces of terrain, When a enenemeny enters the terrain piece the trap is sprung. the squad fires on the squad and then engages it in cc.

Im drunk so this might not make sense or be op----

what if they have the same grenades as the DKOK engineers?

Gas grenades:
before charging, declare to throw gas grenades. If declared, the enemy unit immediately takes d6 str d6 wounds with an AP of -. After the casualties have been removed, the unit charges at initiative 10
One use only
20pts

That would be ba^^. i wondered why IG do not have scout squads like SM do. Small detachments that can sneak around the battle field. having a 5 man contingent would be realistic and awesome.

I think one of the best uses for scouts would be having a Forward Observer. Say if you fire a blast weapon, it only scatters D6 and other ranged weaponary get to reroll all rolls to hit of 1 if the unit you are firing at is within say... 18" of the Forward Observer.

That's a good idea, they should just be all around better, ws bs attacks initiative etc. I spent some time in a recon unit in the army, there was a selection process, not just regular joes. You had to be good enough to make it and typically were better soldiers that worked in smaller groups. I thought about that when i just started my IG army and got the new dex. I was like, why would guard not have a scouts type unit like the real thing? Also, are the Catachan soldiers still basically the same stats as they were before this edition? Never made sense to me that their strength and other stats were not higher than normal guard, though they came from this crazy death world that had extreme climate and gravity etc.......that should make them stronger right

mabey

WS 3
BW 3
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 3
A 1 / 2
Ld 8
Sv 5+

squad size 1 sarge and 4 scouts
Wargear - demo charge, las pistol, CCW.
rules - scout and move through cover.

oppitions:
scouts may replace las pistol/CCW for a lasgun - free
sarge may replace CCW for power -10

I don't realy like the idea of scouts on the bored because they wont do the job as well as vets.

EDIT: spelling

lordsolarkodiak wrote:That's a good idea, they should just be all around better, ws bs attacks initiative etc. I spent some time in a recon unit in the army, there was a selection process, not just regular joes. You had to be good enough to make it and typically were better soldiers that worked in smaller groups. I thought about that when i just started my IG army and got the new dex. I was like, why would guard not have a scouts type unit like the real thing? Also, are the Catachan soldiers still basically the same stats as they were before this edition? Never made sense to me that their strength and other stats were not higher than normal guard, though they came from this crazy death world that had extreme climate and gravity etc.......that should make them stronger right

IG already have this.
Basic scrub is a conscript.
Well trained is a guardsmen.
Very Well trained is a veteran.
Too far outside normal (crazed super strong death world natives) are called "Mutants" and are put down.

You can't be too good in the IG 40K universe, lest you want an inquisitor to try and find out why you are so good.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

lordsolarkodiak wrote:That's a good idea, they should just be all around better, ws bs attacks initiative etc. I spent some time in a recon unit in the army, there was a selection process, not just regular joes. You had to be good enough to make it and typically were better soldiers that worked in smaller groups. I thought about that when i just started my IG army and got the new dex. I was like, why would guard not have a scouts type unit like the real thing? Also, are the Catachan soldiers still basically the same stats as they were before this edition? Never made sense to me that their strength and other stats were not higher than normal guard, though they came from this crazy death world that had extreme climate and gravity etc.......that should make them stronger right

IG already have this.
Basic scrub is a conscript.
Well trained is a guardsmen.
Very Well trained is a veteran.
Too far outside normal (crazed super strong death world natives) are called "Mutants" and are put down.

You can't be too good in the IG 40K universe, lest you want an inquisitor to try and find out why you are so good.

-Matt

Veterans are a poor substitute for real-life units like SAS, SEALs, or Force Recon, who operate as an extremely well-trained unit well beyond normal battlefields. At the very least, Scouts should have Veteran stats with the Scout special rule.

McNinja wrote:
Veterans are a poor substitute for real-life units like SAS, SEALs, or Force Recon, who operate as an extremely well-trained unit well beyond normal battlefields. At the very least, Scouts should have Veteran stats with the Scout special rule.

What part of SAS/SEAL training is where you pray to the machine god that your autocannon doesn't jam?
IG troops, above all else, are expendable. Trying to make a unit that is not expendable is outside of the strategy of the Imperial Guard. As such, modern day elite units do not transition well into IG rules.

When the Imperium needs special forces, they call in the space marines.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

McNinja wrote:
Veterans are a poor substitute for real-life units like SAS, SEALs, or Force Recon, who operate as an extremely well-trained unit well beyond normal battlefields. At the very least, Scouts should have Veteran stats with the Scout special rule.

What part of SAS/SEAL training is where you pray to the machine god that your autocannon doesn't jam?
IG troops, above all else, are expendable. Trying to make a unit that is not expendable is outside of the strategy of the Imperial Guard. As such, modern day elite units do not transition well into IG rules.

When the Imperium needs special forces, they call in the space marines.

-Matt

Current Elite IG = storm troopers

Just because they're elite doesn't mean they're not expendable and just because they're expendable doesn't mean they're not well trained.

Well the Storm Troopers have problems of their own. I've always thought that at their price they should atleast have a WS4, for me that'd make up for the steep price.

Also, I've always wondered why if so many people say they suck, is it that as soon as your Stormies hit the table, the enemy will do everything in their power to destroy them? Even if you don't DS them, they still attack storm troopers first. Not bad for an over priced crap unit, huh?

I think IG scouts aren't a bad idea, if it were a 5 man squad as suggested, that limits their usefulness and you'd likely only take one.
5 man team, Vet stats (Maybe with a WS4 aswell, since their better then standard troops), starting with lasrifles, pistol and CCW, say like SM scouts they can trade in their weapon for a sniper or shotgun, give them scout, stealth and move through cover. I like the Foward Observer idea too. This could be a mix of pathfinders and SM scouts for the IG.

"Forward Observer"- IG scouts can choose to forgo shooting, instead calling in coordinates to allied weapons.

All Ordinance and Barrage weapons scatter only 1d6 when template is placed withing 24" of the scouts.

Sound good?

Yeah, I like the idea of having a forward observer.

I like the sound of where these are going, I would use them with my Manticores. I would also play against them, with no issues.

Do you think the order would affect the Artillery Barrage power from the master of ordinance?

Scouts should have BS4. I also like the forward observer rule.

Having small units of elite highly trained soldiers sounds like Storm Troopers. Granted, they aren't great in close combat, but instead of making a new unit devoted to close combat, maybe just bump up their weapon skill to 4, and give them close combat weapon loadouts. Maybe add that Forward Observer idea (great idea btw) to Special Operations or something.

Nice thinking little bro.

About the WS4 deal, Krieg troopers all have WS 4, their officer have WS5.

About the WS4 deal, Krieg troopers all have WS 4

I never really understood why

And I see storm troopers as a super spec ops unit for IG, not as a small elite forward obsever unit

redkommando wrote:

About the WS4 deal, Krieg troopers all have WS 4

I never really understood why

And I see storm troopers as a super spec ops unit for IG, not as a small elite forward obsever unit

Spec Ops can easily double as FO

King Pariah wrote:

redkommando wrote:

About the WS4 deal, Krieg troopers all have WS 4

I never really understood why

And I see storm troopers as a super spec ops unit for IG, not as a small elite forward obsever unit

Spec Ops can easily double as FO

Exactly. Why not give Storm Troopers WS and BS 4, and a single unit of STs can take the Forward Observer rule (as described earlier in the thread) for a few points? Probably four or five points for the rule.

I've always imagined STs as non-enhanced Space Marines. They have the training, just not the bio-enhancements, and if their (both the sm and st) training is anything like SEAL training, there is no reason they shouldn't have ws and bs 4.

redkommando wrote:

About the WS4 deal, Krieg troopers all have WS 4

I never really understood why

And I see storm troopers as a super spec ops unit for IG, not as a small elite forward obsever unit

Really intense bayonet training I suppose.

Really intense bayonet training I suppose.

Fair call