The Haka and Pepper Spray....

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**Zakiriel**

In Salt Lake City Utah in the U.S.A. there was a incident of some local fans of pacific island origin that decided to boost for their team by preforming the ritual of the Haka.
The cops providing security at the game apparently did not know what was happening and over reacted, with pepper spray.

According to the Associated Press, Deseret News and Salt Lake Tribune, among other sources, a group of relatives of a player for the Roosevelt (Utah) Union High football team was attacked with pepper spray by police officers in Roosevelt, Utah while performing the dance shortly after Uintah's 17-14 victory. The group performing the Haka reportedly blocked the exit from the field, and while their dance was destined to be a quick one -- as practically all Hakas performed by sports teams are -- police insisted that they move from the area to allow players and others to leave the field.
When they began dancing instead, Roosevelt police began using pepper spray to displace the crowd.
"I've never seen anything like it," Union fan Jason Kelly told the Deseret News. "It was totally unprovoked."
The Haka has become a more popular pre-game or postgame attraction for sports teams across American sports after its use by the New Zealand All Blacks rugby team spread globally. The All Blacks, who perform an intimidating Haka before every game, won the 2011 Rugby World Cup on Sunday in an 8-7 victory against France.
The pepper spray spread far beyond the performers, reaching players and fans at the game and causing fans to run from the scene with watering eyes.
You can see video of the Haka melee above, which shows police officers insisting that the dancers "make a hole," in their formation to allow players and others to leave the field. As onlooker Zack Aguiniga told the Salt Lake Tribune, the dancers may not have been able to hear that command because they were in the middle of their Haka performance, chanting loudly in unison and drowning out surrounding noise.
As the police officers sprayed the crowd, either a dancer or onlooker could be heard yelling "I'm going to sue you guys," at the officers.
Nearly all who reported witnessing the incident said the dancers posed to security threat and questioned why police had acted the way they did.
"Five seconds into it, the police officers started coming at them with their clubs, telling them to make room," Union fan Jessica Rasmussen told the Tribune. "They started spraying Mace."
Shawn Mitchell, who was at the game with his son and mother-in-law, also categorized the police response as a clear overreaction when interviewed by the Deseret News.
"I didn't see anything that looked like there could be a threat," he said.

Honestly guys...

**Trondheim**

Dear lord... I agree

**notprop**

On one hand I wanna say silly police men on the other It was funny to see the blokes doing the Haka to impress the local girls stepping away before they got sprayed.

I wouldn't expect to see Ma'a Nonu doing that. He would probably finish his dance then dump tackle the rozers.

**Relapse**

There are tons of Islanders here in Utah, so it wasn't as though the police don't know what the Haka is, so they can't use that as an excuse.
I'm thinking there are going to be some cops getting a fairly solid butt reaming if they don't have a good reason for using pepper spray.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's the rest of the story

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=19098393

I still find it hard to believe these cops didn't know the Haka if they've covered any sporting events here in Utah in the past.

**ifStatement**

won the 2011 Rugby World Cup on Sunday in an 8-7 victory against France.

This story is half a year old.

**SilverMK2**

Sounds like the police valiantly stopped an outbreak of idiots inappropriately dancing. Excellent...

**Emerett**

Fire all the cops involved, hire ex military duders that actually know what they're doing and don't piss themselves when some guys start dancing.

**biccat**

Wasn't the point of the Haka to intimidate your enemy before battle?

Seems like it didn't work so hot this time.

**CT GAMER**

Relapse wrote:There are tons of Islanders here in Utah, so it wasn't as though the police don't know what the Haka is, so they can't use that as an excuse.
I'm thinking there are going to be some cops getting a fairly solid butt reaming if they don't have a good reason for using pepper spray.

Maybe they thought it was some hippies pulling an "OWS"

**Great White**

Well, that's how we do it in America.

**Zakiriel**

@ifStatement
The reason I added the second youtube video was two fold. Firstly for how the audio starts off saying that the Haka is treated with the utmost respect, and secondly for the full blown example of one.

**ifStatement**

Zakiriel wrote:@ifStatement
The reason I added the second youtube video was two fold. Firstly for how the audio starts off saying that the Haka is treated with the utmost respect, and secondly for the full blown example of one.

I understood that. I was pointing out thast this is old news, as the story you quoted says that New Zealand won the world cup last sunday. They won it last october.

**hotsauceman1**

Emerett wrote:Fire all the cops involved, hire ex military duders that actually know what they're doing and don't piss themselves when some guys start dancing.

Um you do realise to whole reason you the police where made was because people didnt want to have the mmilitary running around with that sorta power.

**Relapse**

I'm still surprised the line that the cops didn't know what the Haka was got taken. On any given day around here, a Rugby game between Tongans, Samoans, Maoris, or any other islanders can be seen going on.
The Haka is a common sight for anyone that walks out their front door around here.
If the cops were trying to break up some Tongans and Samoans, I could say go ahead and pepper spray at will, because those kind of rivalries can get really vicious quick.

**Private_Joker**

I don't think you read his post hotsauceman1, he said ex- military, not the actually military running the show but the police service hiring them.

**Kilkrazy**

If you read the story, the dancers were reportedly blocking the exit from the field, preventing the teams and officials from leaving. The police maced them when they refused to move out of the way.

In other words it was not a simple case of the police deciding to mace someone for a laugh.

The use of spray in the situation can be questioned as excessive force, of course.

**purplefood**

Kilkrazy wrote:If you read the story, the dancers were reportedly blocking the exit from the field, preventing the teams and officials from leaving. The police maced them when they refused to move out of the way.

In other words it was not a simple case of the police deciding to mace someone for a laugh.

The use of spray in the situation can be questioned as excessive force, of course.

No one is suggesting they did.
People are saying it was unwarranted.
They would have been done fairly shortly afterwards at any rate.
People claimed that the those performeing the hakka may not have been able to hear the cops (Not sure how true that is)
At any rate as many others have said they probably should have known what it was given the area they live in...

**Frazzled**

One man's haka is another man's gang sign?

**Azza007**

I have always loved the Haka, even performed it on several occasions, and had it performed at me (though the team unfortunately chanted the words to humpty dumpty and we were laughing so hard before preceding to smash them in the game).

I think the cops over reacted and there was no need to deploy pepper spray, if the had waited a minute it would have been over.

**Frazzled**

Isn't part of the Haka saying I am going to kill you and eat you?

I know more than one school where doing that would have the students from the other school opening up on you...

**Relapse**

Azza007 wrote:I have always loved the Haka, even performed it on several occasions, and had it performed at me (though the team unfortunately chanted the words to humpty dumpty and we were laughing so hard before preceding to smash them in the game).

I think the cops over reacted and there was no need to deploy pepper spray, if the had waited a minute it would have been over.

That's why one of my Maori buds hates seeing the Haka done at sporting events. He says it's a ritual with deep roots and signifigance being trivialized and corrupted by the way it's being used by people that don't understand it.

**Krellnus**

Azza007 wrote:I think the cops over reacted and there was no need to deploy pepper spray, if the had waited a minute it would have been over.

Not really, if a cop asks you to move, they should only need to ask you once, whether that be "sir/madam could you please vacate this area" or *motions person(s) to move from this area*, regardless of how they ask, you do.

**Relapse**

Krellnus wrote:
Azza007 wrote:I think the cops over reacted and there was no need to deploy pepper spray, if the had waited a minute it would have been over.

Not really, if a cop asks you to move, they should only need to ask you once, whether that be "sir/madam could you please vacate this area" or *motions person(s) to move from this area*, regardless of how they ask, you do.

True, but they should give people some time to move after they say it. In the video, it seems like the cops say move a couple of times quickly, wait a couple seconds, then uncork the pepper spray catching not only the dancers, but bystanders in the vicinity.
The dancers were in the wrong, also by blocking the exit, I admit.
The people in the bleachers caught by the spray, however did nothing wrong.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=960&sid=18210609

According to this report, elderly people in the stands were caught by the spray.

**Krellnus**

That's why I myself find pepper spray useless unless you are right up close to someone, it can quite easily be blown by the wind and miss and/or hit bystanders, which is never good.
Honestly I think the cops should have given them about 10-15 seconds to start clearing out before taking action.
I'm just glad our cops aren't like that.

**Frazzled**

on the flip we don't know what occurred before the video.

**Krellnus**

True Frazzled, very true.

**Azza007**

Have seen a video where the pepper spray blew back into the cops face, and he still got the guy in a chase.

**KamikazeCanuck**

Frazzled wrote:One man's haka is another man's gang sign?

Indeed.

**warpcrafter**

Frazzled wrote:Isn't part of the Haka saying I am going to kill you and eat you?

I know more than one school where doing that would have the students from the other school opening up on you...

I've known a few Samoans, and if they would have got pepper-sprayed while performing a sacred ritual, the cops who did it would have gotten off easy by just being killed and eaten.

**Frazzled**

warpcrafter wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Isn't part of the Haka saying I am going to kill you and eat you?

I know more than one school where doing that would have the students from the other school opening up on you...

I've known a few Samoans, and if they would have got pepper-sprayed while performing a sacred ritual, the cops who did it would have gotten off easy by just being killed and eaten.

Lets see, Somoan vs. heavily armed cops = PROFIT!