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Dear Dakka,
As many people know, Citadel Finecast has been rather faulty over the past year, and with recent addition of the very bad Warhammer 40k 25th Anniversary model I've found that we need to tell GW to start caring about their 'current decent quality control' so I have an Idea, which would only work if a few thousand people agreed to it.

We will mass mail all of the GW HQ's around the world with about 500+ letters, they don't all have to be the same we just need a large amount to hit the mail boxes, but this will only be the start. Also call stores around the globe complaining about Finecast, this should help put pressure on the stores which will tell their HQ what problems there are. We can also mass email customer services and the HQ's with more letters and emails this should hopefully clog up the email for a day or so. If we can repeat this a few times it should make an impact if it doesn’t we can do email and letter strikes again. Finally, if this does fail we can just stop buying Finecast.

I am not trying to be an idiot with this I am serious because Games Workshop need to be put back in line and be what they used to be and I hope people will take me seriously,

HAZZER

April 1st's still a long way off, you know.

*And I suppose I should add at least something constructive. We already had this happen over the summer when Finecast and the Embargo was announced. Guess what - nothing changed.

The only way to vote is with your wallet.

Petitions/boycotts never go well.

This is most certainly not the first topic advocating something like this be done against GW...

Writing actual paper letters is one of the more productive ways to get GW's attention. They are clearly committed to Finecast, so it's not like they're going to abandon it, but if they get a high number of physical complaints about quality they may well overhaul and improve their production & QC.

infinite_array wrote:April 1st's still a long way off, you know.

*And I suppose I should add at least something constructive. We already had this happen over the summer when Finecast and the Embargo was announced. Guess what - nothing changed.

The only way to vote is with your wallet.

But a mass 'complant strike' shoud work if we do it on the least bussiest times of the year it will make a point, then just before the most bussyest times start, we do anouther strike, it could work!

Henners91 wrote:Petitions/boycotts never go well.

This is most certainly not the first topic advocating something like this be done against GW...

Yes I do understand that, but I personally feel that GW 'have overstepped the line' with QC.

Mannahnin wrote:Writing actual paper letters is one of the more productive ways to get GW's attention. They are clearly committed to Finecast, so it's not like they're going to abandon it, but if they get a high number of physical complaints about quality they may well overhaul and improve their production & QC.

Excatly! Thats the idea, to get GW to do decent min's again!

HAZZER wrote:
Exactly! That's the idea, to get GW to do decent minis again!

See, this is an example of a "confused ideal".

The problem isn't that the miniatures they're selling are not "decent". You're confusing the models with the medium, the problem is Finecast's lack of quality control and the biggest problem being the sheer multitude of unacceptable casts which have made their way to points of sale.

If you really want to "make an impact", it's best to differentiate between the two issues.

Kanluwen wrote:

HAZZER wrote:
Exactly! That's the idea, to get GW to do decent minis again!

See, this is an example of a "confused ideal".

The problem isn't that the miniatures they're selling are not "decent". You're confusing the models with the medium, the problem is Finecast's lack of quality control and the biggest problem being the sheer multitude of unacceptable casts which have made their way to points of sale.

If you really want to "make an impact", it's best to differentiate between the two issues.

Ok, fair enough, but what I would really like to happen is to improve thier QC, and mass bad moldes. Thanks for that man!

Henners91 wrote:Petitions/boycotts never go well.

This is most certainly not the first topic advocating something like this be done against GW...

Didn't L4D2 boycott go well? And that SOPA boycott?

HAZZER wrote:
I am not trying to be an idiot with this

Too late, if you think petitions like this actually work.

My 25th anniversary model was nearly flawless, aside from a little bubble under his pantleg that's actually impossible to see when it's actually mounted on the base. The medium still has its issues but is getting better. It was just rushed out the door and right now it's where it should have been at launch.

illuknisaa wrote:

Henners91 wrote:Petitions/boycotts never go well.

This is most certainly not the first topic advocating something like this be done against GW...

Didn't L4D2 boycott go well? And that SOPA boycott?

I'm not sure what your point is.

The L4D2 boycott is the videogame world's posterchild for a failed boycott. Half the people in that boycott were playing the game Day 1.
The SOPA outrage is the internet's posterchild of a successful protest. Right when you think internet protests don't matter, Google, Wikipedia, and other important places join the protest and make a mark.

Absolutionis wrote:

illuknisaa wrote:

Henners91 wrote:Petitions/boycotts never go well.

This is most certainly not the first topic advocating something like this be done against GW...

Didn't L4D2 boycott go well? And that SOPA boycott?

I'm not sure what your point is.

The L4D2 boycott is the videogame world's posterchild for a failed boycott. Half the people in that boycott were playing the game Day 1.
The SOPA outrage is the internet's posterchild of a successful protest. Right when you think internet protests don't matter, Google, Wikipedia, and other important places join the protest and make a mark.

The L4D2 boycott was hilarious. It even turned out that the leaders of the boycott really liked the game.

I've had no problems with quality with any of my Finecast models.

I'm going with the 'Just don't buy it' option. Saves me the bother of writing letters, and opens up the budget to buy some of the stonking good miniatures coming out from a raft of other companies.

Brother SRM wrote:

HAZZER wrote:
I am not trying to be an idiot with this

Too late, if you think petitions like this actually work.

My 25th anniversary model was nearly flawless, aside from a little bubble under his pantleg that's actually impossible to see when it's actually mounted on the base. The medium still has its issues but is getting better. It was just rushed out the door and right now it's where it should have been at launch.

Well your modle may of been 'perfect', but many other people's wasent so please don'y be guy, it just pointless starting an arugumnet abut it. End of. Btw work on your insults next time.

insaniak wrote:I'm going with the 'Just don't buy it' option. Saves me the bother of writing letters, and opens up the budget to buy some of the stonking good miniatures coming out from a raft of other companies.

You could punctuate that decision to not buy with a letter to GW explaining why you have made the decision. It does have an impact, however small, and I think that at least conceptually, the OP's idea has merit.

But you don't need to organize a mass, simultaneous thing. insaniak has made a decision as a consumer. GW deserves to know why he has decided to not purchase certain products. A simple e-mail to customer service is not only reasonable, but it helps the company to define why there are changes in its sales data. And yes, if the company gets many such communications, there is a greater chance that it will respond to those concerns.

When I began to boycott GW products, I sent an e-mail to GW customer service explaining which purchases I had planned to make, why I was no longer going to make said purchases, and precisely which competing products I was going to spend the money on instead. I got an e-mail response and a follow up personal phone call from a customer service rep. I spent 30 minutes calmly informing him about my choices as a consumer. Has GW changed its ways because I did that, no, I don't think it has. However, the simple act of sending an e-mail got a response. The more often that happens, the bigger the impact.

I think every GW customer that decides to not purchase a product should think about what his or her honest answer would be if Mark Wells asked, "How did you come to that decision?" You can send that answer to GW unsolicited in whatever manner you like. GW deserves to know why you aren't buying a product, especially if you have been a long term customer. The company is going to try to guess why, because it legitimately wants to know. You can help the company to make informed decisions by providing feedback.

"Voting with your wallet" doesn't work due primarily to the existence of monopolies. Games Workshop is a monopoly - I don't accept companies like Infinity are serious competition. GW has no serious competition. GW dominate this market (like it or not) so have very little motive for quality control.
For the same reasons petitions won't work either, though I admire that you are actually willing to get off your ass and do something about the sub-standard practices.

weeble1000 wrote:

insaniak wrote:I'm going with the 'Just don't buy it' option. Saves me the bother of writing letters, and opens up the budget to buy some of the stonking good miniatures coming out from a raft of other companies.

You could punctuate that decision to not buy with a letter to GW explaining why you have made the decision. It does have an impact, however small, and I think that at least conceptually, the OP's idea has merit.

But you don't need to organize a mass, simultaneous thing. insaniak has made a decision as a consumer. GW deserves to know why he has decided to not purchase certain products. A simple e-mail to customer service is not only reasonable, but it helps the company to define why there are changes in its sales data. And yes, if the company gets many such communications, there is a greater chance that it will respond to those concerns.

When I began to boycott GW products, I sent an e-mail to GW customer service explaining which purchases I had planned to make, why I was no longer going to make said purchases, and precisely which competing products I was going to spend the money on instead. I got an e-mail response and a follow up personal phone call from a customer service rep. I spent 30 minutes calmly informing him about my choices as a consumer. Has GW changed its ways because I did that, no, I don't think it has. However, the simple act of sending an e-mail got a response. The more often that happens, the bigger the impact.

I think every GW customer that decides to not purchase a product should think about what his or her honest answer would be if Mark Wells asked, "How did you come to that decision?" You can send that answer to GW unsolicited in whatever manner you like. GW deserves to know why you aren't buying a product, especially if you have been a long term customer. The company is going to try to guess why, because it legitimately wants to know. You can help the company to make informed decisions by providing feedback.

Wow, thats a very good idea! Tbh I may do that with some of there gule and generally say What I feel about fincast products.

weeble1000 wrote: GW deserves to know why he has decided to not purchase certain products.

No they don't.

If they paid any attention to the internet, they would know very well the effect their recent business decisions are having. Since they choose to write the internet off as a passing fad and the domain of faceless whiners who don't actually represent their customer base, I see no reason to go out of my way to tell them otherwise.

My choice to not buy 'Fine'cast may not have a noticeable effect on their bottom line (although given that I've gone from spending around $10000 a year to around $500 in the last 12 months thanks to their decision to refuse to allow Australian customers to source product at a fair price, who knows, maybe it will...) but it will mean that I don't have to deal with 'Fine'cast, and I wind up with a bunch of minis that are worth paying for instead. What GW makes of that doesn't bother me in the slightest.



Edited multiple times for Finespelling.

Personally, I feel like GW is not in FINECAST for the longhaul and only using it as a stopgap until they can phase in to all plastic kits over the next 5-10 years. They are making 10 year molds with all thier new plastic releases and are almost eliminating the need for individual release models, I think the plastic sorcerers for fantasy showed that.

Since Finecast can be casted well and is only a small portion of what people buy (seriously, most of your army is plastic and most people will be buying a limited number of finecast units) and with the infringement of 3rd party companies, it could be GW has simply decided that the moving away from metal and the actual impact of lost sales from Finecast QC evens out and has no realistic impact on thier sales whatsoever, which basically means "who cares?" if some people won't buy finecast, they are still snorting the plasticrack.

I think it is a calculated position where they are perfectly happy to make a small segment of the customerbase unhappy. Buisnesses do this sometimes as you can't please everyone.

Sales speak way louder than internet whining. The issue is internet whining thinks it is more important and has a greater impact than it does, If finecast really was hemorrhaging them customers and money, they would have done something.

insaniak wrote:I'm going with the 'Just don't buy it' option. Saves me the bother of writing letters, and opens up the budget to buy some of the stonking good miniatures coming out from a raft of other companies.

For those of you who don't like Finecast this is what I would suggest. GW doesn't care about it's customers so why would they care about what their customers opinions are?

I don't think people realise the contempt that GW has for it's own customers.

The only way to get GW to fix the QA/QC problems with FC is to not buy the models.

The bonus is that you could get out and try some different games. I personally moved on to Force on Force and Tomorrow's War by Ambush Alley Games. The great thing is that for Tomorrow's War I can still use my old GW figgies as the game is 'scale indifferent'.

If you are more into WWII then try out FOW, rapid fire or Kampfgruppe Normandy. KGH is a great rule set written by Warwick Kinrade from FW and has Piers Brand (big p from gmp on dakka) helping with the playtesting of new lists and books. If the bo-cages of Normandy are not to your liking KG Kursk should be out soon same with KG Pacific ( which I am waiting for personally =o])

I do have one question though, what does £100 get your at GW? I got a USMC and a Iraqi Fedyaeen army both with around 40 models including special weapons like ATGM's, HMG's, mortors and a few Technical kits. Would I be able to buy two armies from GW for £100 and teach people how to play?

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote: I don't think people realise the contempt that GW has for it's own customers.

I still find it amazing that people really think this.

The only way to get GW to fix the QA/QC problems with FC is to not buy the models.

This is very true, provided no one is buying them. But a lot of people are.

I do have one question though, what does £100 get your at GW? I got a USMC and a Iraqi Fedyaeen army both with around 40 models including special weapons like ATGM's, HMG's, mortors and a few Technical kits. Would I be able to buy two armies from GW for £100 and teach people how to play?

Well if you buy off the internet a couple of sets of Assault on Black Reach. 46 six models I believe with all the markers and a rulebook for each player.

Ugavine wrote:

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote: I don't think people realise the contempt that GW has for it's own customers.

I still find it amazing that people really think this.

You might not find it so amazing if you had seen the various comments posted by former GW managers over the years about the way GW's customers are spoken about in company meetings...

insaniak wrote:

Ugavine wrote:

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote: I don't think people realise the contempt that GW has for it's own customers.

I still find it amazing that people really think this.

You might not find it so amazing if you had seen the various comments posted by former GW managers over the years about the way GW's customers are spoken about in company meetings...

Mind showing us said quotes?

And how is a former store manager representative of the company's policy as a whole?

Not trying to call you out, but I honestly don't have this information, I'd like to see it.

HAZZER wrote:Also call stores around the globe complaining about Finecast, this should help put pressure on the stores which will tell their HQ what problems there are.

Ah, that's cute. You've never worked in retail before.

Well, best of luck!

HAZZER wrote:
Well your modle may of been 'perfect', but many other people's wasent so please don'y be guy, it just pointless starting an arugumnet abut it. End of. Btw work on your insults next time.

Work on your spelling next time. Proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation really help people take you seriously. I'll also save working on my insults when I actually mean to insult you. I'm just stating that online petitions do absolutely nothing whatsoever, and weak-willed nerds with impulse control problems (like most of us in the wargaming community) will sooner shut up and buy more than successfully boycott a product.

Ugavine wrote:
Well if you buy off the internet a couple of sets of Assault on Black Reach. 46 six models I believe with all the markers and a rulebook for each player.

Really, a hundred bucks here wouldn't even get me one AOBR its $118.75 Cdn dollars. when it came out it was $65 I worked the day it was launched we all made our monthly KPI's in one day. We had 150 boxes and they all sold out.

Plus I like to support my FLGS and companys who's products I like. It why I try to buy right from the retailer especially for models. I love Elhiem's vietnam and cold war era figures so I buy from Matt. I like AAG's force on force so I try to buy from them.

Funny thing is when I was buying GW products I was working at the store and had a %50 discount and still found it hard to justify the cost of buying stuff. I would pick up a crap ton of stuff off of Ebay also. I wonder why people don't have that 'loyality' to GW?

"The only way to get GW to fix the QA/QC problems with FC is to not buy the models."

This will not work. It would only prove to GW that a particular model or set is unpopular because it's not selling.

The proper way to make a stand, to make a point is to buy it and then request a refund when the item is unacceptable. This then shows interest in the item / model / unit, but demonstrates that it's quality was unacceptable, but most importantly there is no faith in the product as the buyer (you) would rather have your money back than try and have it replaced.

oni wrote:The proper way to make a stand, to make a point is to buy it and then request a refund when the item is unacceptable. This then shows interest in the item / model / unit, but demonstrates that it's quality was unacceptable, but most importantly there is no faith in the product as the buyer (you) would rather have your money back than try and have it replaced.

I have no interest in the item because the quality is unacceptable. I show that I have no faith in the product by not buying it.

How GW choose to interpret that is entirely up to them. If they misconstrue the intentions of a former customer due to not paying attention, that's ultimately not my problem.

Brother SRM wrote:

HAZZER wrote:
Well your modle may of been 'perfect', but many other people's wasent so please don'y be guy, it just pointless starting an arugumnet abut it. End of. Btw work on your insults next time.

Work on your spelling next time. Proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation really help people take you seriously. I'll also save working on my insults when I actually mean to insult you. I'm just stating that online petitions do absolutely nothing whatsoever, and weak-willed nerds with impulse control problems (like most of us in the wargaming community) will sooner shut up and buy more than successfully boycott a product.

Ok, fair enough not can we please stop aruging.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

insaniak wrote:

weeble1000 wrote: GW deserves to know why he has decided to not purchase certain products.

No they don't.

If they paid any attention to the internet, they would know very well the effect their recent business decisions are having. Since they choose to write the internet off as a passing fad and the domain of faceless whiners who don't actually represent their customer base, I see no reason to go out of my way to tell them otherwise.

My choice to not buy 'Fine'cast may not have a noticeable effect on their bottom line (although given that I've gone from spending around $10000 a year to around $500 in the last 12 months thanks to their decision to refuse to allow Australian customers to source product at a fair price, who knows, maybe it will...) but it will mean that I don't have to deal with 'Fine'cast, and I wind up with a bunch of minis that are worth paying for instead. What GW makes of that doesn't bother me in the slightest.



Edited multiple times for Finespelling.

Second that, but when I phoned up my local GW, they were like "okif its a miscast and we can't do anything with it we will replace it". so Igeuss Gw are starting to listen a little!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

azazel the cat wrote:

HAZZER wrote:Also call stores around the globe complaining about Finecast, this should help put pressure on the stores which will tell their HQ what problems there are.

Ah, that's cute. You've never worked in retail before.

Well, best of luck!

There is always a first, but it could work is all GW stores were getting complaints.

I'll tell you guys what works.

For every 1 fc you buy, get 5 replacement or 10.

they'll get the point nice and easy.