Make a change to Citadel Finecast and help make a point.

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**SagesStone**

LunaHound wrote:I'll tell you guys what works.

For every 1 fc you buy, get 5 replacement or 10.

they'll get the point nice and easy.

Though the wrong point and limit replacements instead.

**HAZZER**

n0t_u wrote:
LunaHound wrote:I'll tell you guys what works.

For every 1 fc you buy, get 5 replacement or 10.

they'll get the point nice and easy.

Though the wrong point and limit replacements instead.

Would'nt work, it would probally stop at 5 replacements! But yes I get it!

**insaniak**

HAZZER wrote:Second that, but when I phoned up my local GW, they were like "okif its a miscast and we can't do anything with it we will replace it". so Igeuss Gw are starting to listen a little!

GW have always happily replaced miscasts. That's not some new thing due to 'Fine'cast.

Their customer service is not generally in question. It's one of the things they pretty consistently get right.

**FabricatorGeneralMike**

insaniak wrote:
HAZZER wrote:Second that, but when I phoned up my local GW, they were like "okif its a miscast and we can't do anything with it we will replace it". so Igeuss Gw are starting to listen a little!

GW have always happily replaced miscasts. That's not some new thing due to 'Fine'cast.

Their customer service is not generally in question. It's one of the things they pretty consistently get right.

Out of all the hate that GW gets, their one shining beacon of hope was there Customer Service. That had always been a bright spot with the company. There customer service has always been top notch. When you call up and tell them you got something miscast they would usually send you a whole new model even if it was just something like the arm messed up. They seem to be asking some FC miscasts to be sent back to Lenton. I don't know if they want to inspect the models and try to find the batch and mold numbers or what? But that is something new from GW asking you to send the model back.

I guess as long as they replace the faulty product it's alright, but with these prices you shouldn't have to go through 3 or 4 returns to get one that is 'satisfactory' to you.

**kronk**

HAZZER wrote:
But a mass 'complant strike' shoud work if we do it on the least bussiest times of the year it will make a point, then just before the most bussyest times start, we do anouther strike, it could work!

Yes I do understand that, but I personally feel that GW 'have overstepped the line' with QC.

Excatly! Thats the idea, to get GW to do decent min's again!

Mail them a letter. I support that 100%. I did the same last year.

However, PLEASE have someone proof read your letter.

**thakabalpuphorsefishguy**

Ugavine wrote:I've had no problems with quality with any of my Finecast models.

What ugavinel said

**Redaxe13**

FifteenHours wrote:"Voting with your wallet" doesn't work due primarily to the existence of monopolies. Games Workshop is a monopoly - I don't accept companies like Infinity are serious competition. GW has no serious competition. GW dominate this market (like it or not) so have very little motive for quality control.
For the same reasons petitions won't work either, though I admire that you are actually willing to get off your ass and do something about the sub-standard practices.

Not true at all... GW is not a monopoly. Thats just stupid to say. Do you know what a monopoly is? Warmachine and Hordes are actually more popular in a few FLGS than warhammer. there are loads of other games out there as well. Just because GW has the biggest name out there doesn't somehow make them a monopoly.
As much as you may not like GW, the reason that they are the biggest company out there is because of their quality and amazing background fluff and such. Finecast is very flawed, but GW traditionaly has made the best minis for the price. They are a good company, and I have faith that they will fix finecast eventually.

Urgh people on the internets who think they're economists...

**Locclo**

Redaxe13 wrote:
FifteenHours wrote:"Voting with your wallet" doesn't work due primarily to the existence of monopolies. Games Workshop is a monopoly - I don't accept companies like Infinity are serious competition. GW has no serious competition. GW dominate this market (like it or not) so have very little motive for quality control.
For the same reasons petitions won't work either, though I admire that you are actually willing to get off your ass and do something about the sub-standard practices.

Not true at all... GW is not a monopoly. Thats just stupid to say. Do you know what a monopoly is? Warmachine and Hordes are actually more popular in a few FLGS than warhammer. there are loads of other games out there as well. Just because GW has the biggest name out there doesn't somehow make them a monopoly.
As much as you may not like GW, the reason that they are the biggest company out there is because of their quality and amazing background fluff and such. Finecast is very flawed, but GW traditionaly has made the best minis for the price. They are a good company, and I have faith that they will fix finecast eventually.

Urgh people on the internets who think they're economists...

From wikipedia:
"A monopoly (from Greek monos μόνος (alone or single) + polein πωλεῖν (to sell)) exists when a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular commodity."

Key word here: ONLY. Regardless of whether GW is the biggest name in the modeling community, it has some competition in numerous other game series. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

**Redaxe13**

Locclo wrote:
Redaxe13 wrote:
FifteenHours wrote:"Voting with your wallet" doesn't work due primarily to the existence of monopolies. Games Workshop is a monopoly - I don't accept companies like Infinity are serious competition. GW has no serious competition. GW dominate this market (like it or not) so have very little motive for quality control.
For the same reasons petitions won't work either, though I admire that you are actually willing to get off your ass and do something about the sub-standard practices.

Not true at all... GW is not a monopoly. Thats just stupid to say. Do you know what a monopoly is? Warmachine and Hordes are actually more popular in a few FLGS than warhammer. there are loads of other games out there as well. Just because GW has the biggest name out there doesn't somehow make them a monopoly.
As much as you may not like GW, the reason that they are the biggest company out there is because of their quality and amazing background fluff and such. Finecast is very flawed, but GW traditionaly has made the best minis for the price. They are a good company, and I have faith that they will fix finecast eventually.

Urgh people on the internets who think they're economists...

From wikipedia:
"A monopoly (from Greek monos μόνος (alone or single) + polein πωλεῖν (to sell)) exists when a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular commodity."

Key word here: ONLY. Regardless of whether GW is the biggest name in the modeling community, it has some competition in numerous other game series. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Exactly my point. I just was too lazy to fetch the definition.
Thank you <3

**helium42**

It really does not matter how many letters or emails GW might receive, the only way to make an impact is too stop buying from them until they correct their casting/quality control. In the mean time, spread those hobby dollars around to other businesses that do produce nice figures/rules that you like. The more we empower other companies like PP, Wyrd, etc., the better it is for us all. Stiff competition between these companies will bring out the best in all of them.

**FabricatorGeneralMike**

Redaxe13 wrote:
FifteenHours wrote:"Voting with your wallet" doesn't work due primarily to the existence of monopolies. Games Workshop is a monopoly - I don't accept companies like Infinity are serious competition. GW has no serious competition. GW dominate this market (like it or not) so have very little motive for quality control.
For the same reasons petitions won't work either, though I admire that you are actually willing to get off your ass and do something about the sub-standard practices.

Not true at all... GW is not a monopoly. Thats just stupid to say. Do you know what a monopoly is? Warmachine and Hordes are actually more popular in a few FLGS than warhammer. there are loads of other games out there as well. Just because GW has the biggest name out there doesn't somehow make them a monopoly.
As much as you may not like GW, the reason that they are the biggest company out there is because of their quality and amazing background fluff and such. Finecast is very flawed, but GW traditionaly has made the best minis for the price. They are a good company, and I have faith that they will fix finecast eventually.

Urgh people on the internets who think they're economists...

@ 15hours; GW might be the most reconised name out there but they are not a monopoly. There are a lot of other company's out there that make everything from not-space marines, not primarchs to historical models.

GW is just a very small slice of the TTWG pie. Take off the blinders, open your eyes and bask in the glory that is Table Top War Gamming.

Great post redaxe but GW made some of the best 28mm figgies for their old prices. Now it's just over priced crap. The same Tac-Squad starting at $25 canadian is now almost $50 canadian. I am sorry I won't help Mr Kirby padd up his 401K ( retirement fund) anymore while they drive GW into the ground looking for short term profit instead of taking a longer view and trying to keep the company competitive over the long term.

**Jstncloud**

weeble1000 wrote:
insaniak wrote:I'm going with the 'Just don't buy it' option. Saves me the bother of writing letters, and opens up the budget to buy some of the stonking good miniatures coming out from a raft of other companies.

You could punctuate that decision to not buy with a letter to GW explaining why you have made the decision. It does have an impact, however small, and I think that at least conceptually, the OP's idea has merit.

But you don't need to organize a mass, simultaneous thing. insaniak has made a decision as a consumer. GW deserves to know why he has decided to not purchase certain products. A simple e-mail to customer service is not only reasonable, but it helps the company to define why there are changes in its sales data. And yes, if the company gets many such communications, there is a greater chance that it will respond to those concerns.

When I began to boycott GW products, I sent an e-mail to GW customer service explaining which purchases I had planned to make, why I was no longer going to make said purchases, and precisely which competing products I was going to spend the money on instead. I got an e-mail response and a follow up personal phone call from a customer service rep. I spent 30 minutes calmly informing him about my choices as a consumer. Has GW changed its ways because I did that, no, I don't think it has. However, the simple act of sending an e-mail got a response. The more often that happens, the bigger the impact.

I think every GW customer that decides to not purchase a product should think about what his or her honest answer would be if Mark Wells asked, "How did you come to that decision?" You can send that answer to GW unsolicited in whatever manner you like. GW deserves to know why you aren't buying a product, especially if you have been a long term customer. The company is going to try to guess why, because it legitimately wants to know. You can help the company to make informed decisions by providing feedback.

Not to chime in on a thread that has already been started but, man, the post you made made a heck of a lot of since, was civil, and most of all, it was polite and educated. It might not make a big difference, but one penny is a penny so they say and if you get enough pennies eventually they make a dollar (yeah sounds corny but the fact remains eventually it builds up).

**NAVARRO**

I do share the exact same feelings that Insaniak expressed earlier in this thread and would just like to add the following; there's a time for everything in a gamers life but once you reach a certain level of experience you kind of know what to expect from companies like GW.

**HAZZER**

insaniak wrote:
HAZZER wrote:Second that, but when I phoned up my local GW, they were like "okif its a miscast and we can't do anything with it we will replace it". so Igeuss Gw are starting to listen a little!

GW have always happily replaced miscasts. That's not some new thing due to 'Fine'cast.

Their customer service is not generally in question. It's one of the things they pretty consistently get right.

Atlest they got somthing right!

**Jackal**

To be honest, what would 1,000emails achieve?
Im sure they have had more than that thus far about finecast, which is why they have brought up the issue recently.

Im with insaniak and navarro on this one though.
Ive seen it over the years, i dont expect anything to be done in an instant.

On the plus side, FW resin work has come along miles recently

So, stick to plastic or metal

Ive got a ton of metal models that i would prefer to have the new resin versions of.
Infact, i need to start ebaying them soon so i can replace lol.

With finecast i just see a small amount of sculpting and bubbling filling (now and again) as part of the prep stage.

**AegisGrimm**

Not buying models from GW will simply convince them that they need to raise prices to overcome that downfall.

I'm quite certain that more than one GW HQ employee has read these forums from time to time, so it's virtually guaranteed they;re read at least one Finecast argument thread. They know, and I just don't think they care much. So sending them huge amounts of mail is just something more for them to throw away.

It's a catch-22. They are damned certain they are making FC the next huge thin on the market, so either they see the losses on FC and raise prices even more, or they go "People don't like our models. Oh well, they just aren't "with it" and there's lots of other buyers that aren't hearing what they are saying that are spending what they aren't."

**NAVARRO**

AegisGrimm wrote:Not buying models from GW will simply convince them that they need to raise prices to overcome that downfall.

So what are you saying? I need to keep buying? Nonsense!

**brainscan**

if you want to have more of an impact try trading standards and good not fit for sale / purpose / as described or vote with your wallet.

**Fra Charmelandro**

My experience of Trading Standards (admittedly in a roofing cowboy scenario) is that on the civil as opposed to criminal side, they are pretty toothless.

I bought 2 FC minis at the weekend for £22 which I consider to be expensive so I expect a quality product. I searched through the packs as best I could in Warhammer World's dingy lighting and the cramped packaging but when I got home, I found the inevitable bubbles spoiling the cast in a position which I cannot repair, although I do not consider I should have to repair it. I photographed it and the receipt and sent it to GW. They ask me to send it back or visit a GW store. I refuse. My time and money for petrol or post and packing is valuable and the burden should be on them to replace defective models. I do not expect them to try and sell the model to someone else either. This is not good customer service and I have said as much to them. It remains to be seen what their response will be.

I do not think refusing to buy FC and not telling GW will have an impact on them. I do not buy plastic direct from them any more as I have no incentive to support their hobby centres or the lack of regard they appear to have adopted towards their customers. I have ended my WD subscription.

I think whether or not you agree with petitions, if we say nothing, nothing will change. We mustn't be supine about this.

**insaniak**

AegisGrimm wrote:Not buying models from GW will simply convince them that they need to raise prices to overcome that downfall.

Which won't be a problem for those who have chosen to take their money to companies with better quality control...

**AegisGrimm**

insaniak wrote:
AegisGrimm wrote:Not buying models from GW will simply convince them that they need to raise prices to overcome that downfall.

Which won't be a problem for those who have chosen to take their money to companies with better quality control...

No, that's true. But the best bet is to think outside of the box. I meant to get Lukas the Trickster 'some day', but I waited too long and he got replaced with Finecast, which I refuse to buy. So I cussed a bit, and then shrugged and bought plastic bitz to make myself a plastic one. It's now even more individual to me than a paintjob, and even as bitz cost 1/2 the price of the FC Lukas.

**Emerett**

Don't buy 'em, thats the only thing they care about.

There are a ton of other companies that make amazing 40k models, I'm sure they have what you need.

**Brother SRM**

Jackal wrote:To be honest, what would 1,000emails achieve?

Well first, somebody has to open their email. Next, somebody has to mark a bunch of emails as spam, and finally someone has to empty their spam folder!

GOOD WORK MEN, WE SURE SHOWED THEM

**azazel the cat**

Firsthand experience from a large corporation's customer service centre:

1 written letter = 1000 phone calls = 5000 emails

Speak with you wallet; but if you want to make sure GW understands the proper correlation, then buy some postage stamps.

**NAVARRO**

Brother SRM wrote:
Jackal wrote:To be honest, what would 1,000emails achieve?

Well first, somebody has to open their email. Next, somebody has to mark a bunch of emails as spam, and finally someone has to empty their spam folder!

GOOD WORK MEN, WE SURE SHOWED THEM

**brainscan**

tbh if the idea is to make an impact via a particular action that is noticeable, the only one i can think of is to ask for a refund. This way the refund shows up on sales report against the particular item. This will then be picked up by senior management and possible recognised...

**marielle**

All the Finecast models I have bought have been prefect... unfortunately.

**PhantomViper**

brainscan wrote:This will then be picked up by senior management and possible recognised...

I have absolutely no doubts that the issue has already been "recognized" by senior management. They just don't give a crap about it.

Little Timmy visiting GW with his mommy isn't able to recognize a miscast so he will still happily continue to buy Failcrap models, and THAT is GWs target consumer.

You need to get it into your heads, GW doesn't care about veteran customers, or customer retention or any of that stuff, they just care about getting new ones, and new customers don't know if they are being sold inferior models or not...

If you are unhappy with Failcrap, then just don't buy it, simple. And I'm not talking about a boycott or any such nonsense, I'm, talking about treating this product like you would any other product that doesn't meet you personal standards and just don't buy it, GW won't "get the message", but they won't get the message anyway with letters or emails or any of that stuff.

**HAZZER**

Lucky!

**brainscan**

@phantom, you're probably right... what business would prioritise new customers over long term regular customers...