Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok so at my club we are gonna start fantasy which is all good, AFAIK there will be me with VC, TK, DE, O&G and (possibly) another VC with ogers, deamons and another fiend who hasnt made his mind up on which army to collect.

Now the way me the DE and TK player say we want to make our armys in our direction (since we are picturing ourselves on the battlefield) and we want this to be a fun game with epic moments and we want our narritvity of epic clashes and memorable moments, however my fear is that if somone bring a list with a "play with what works" or a netlist army then the whole group will slowly change to "play in our diection" to "play with what works".

Now some people may ask what is wrong with that?

My point is that me and my friends want a game we can remember as being a bloodbath with epic combats and funny little things that happen along the way, we dont want this game to become a game of number (yes I know it is a game of numbers, but my point was is that I want to visualise a vampire ripping a orc in half or a dreadlord gutting a tyrant, not S5 beats T4 on a roll of a 6, as I have felt this is what has happened with 40K in our group).

so this is where I neeed dakka to help plaese?

If there are any type of netlist you know or have seen for any fantasy army the plaese post up here so that I can identify, please.

Cheers to all comments, and if anyone put lists up a big thank you to those people it is very much appreciated .

so basically, you just want fun, "evenly matched" games? Tell the DE, DoC, and VC player to pick other armies... problem solved!

well it not like "tell other people to collect other armys" it more of collect the army you like the most and in your own direction not "netllist spam" or play an list that is unfluffy (an example is that you have khorne lord on a juggernaught with an army of tzeench) so that it is just "play because it works"

And I cant tell other people what to collect I mean how would you like it if somone told you to collect an army because "it was too powerfull statwise" or somthing like that.

but seriously, web lists aren't as big of a deal in WHFB as they are in 40k. As long as your friends (and you) who play the stronger armies avoid the cheesy stuff (2 Hydras, tons of ethereals, 2 Ironblasters, anything in DoC, etc), all the matches should be fun and enjoyable. ...if that's what you're inferring it is you want.

I play DE at the OP's FLGS. I am wanting to go 'in my direction' with a couple of 'things that work'. I would like to have a fun list that can be fun to play against.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/435820.page#4071532
Here is my thread on the 'fun list' aspect of things

Yeah but it stuff like 2 hydras and tons of ethreals we are trying to aviod.

And even if netlists arnt a big deal as they are in 40K, we still want narritve moments not hordes being crushed by hellcannon spam as an example, I mean one of the thing I want in my army are blood knights (which apparntly arnt that good but still this is an example of playing in my direction) and my DE friend wats cold ones (as this is playing in his direction) this is great lots of naritivity is going into that, and we can both visualise what can happen now if I took bloodknights against a wall of iron (WoC netlist i belive) then the game for my PoW will turn into a game of numbers from visualising "knights on the charge" to "lets see how many 6's I can roll" which I can say most people would enjoy seing all the gore instaed of seeing "S5 beats T3"

Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:but seriously, web lists aren't as big of a deal in WHFB as they are in 40k. As long as your friends (and you) who play the stronger armies avoid the cheesy stuff (2 Hydras, tons of ethereals, 2 Ironblasters, anything in DoC, etc), all the matches should be fun and enjoyable. ...if that's what you're inferring it is you want.

Ill just leave this here happy...

happygolucky wrote:Yeah but it stuff like 2 hydras and tons of ethreals we are trying to aviod.

And even if netlists arnt a big deal as they are in 40K, we still want narritve moments not hordes being crushed by hellcannon spam as an example, I mean one of the thing I want in my army are blood knights (which apparntly arnt that good but still this is an example of playing in my direction) and my DE friend wats cold ones (as this is playing in his direction) this is great lots of naritivity is going into that, and we can both visualise what can happen now if I took bloodknights against a wall of iron (WoC netlist i belive) then the game for my PoW will turn into a game of numbers from visualising "knights on the charge" to "lets see how many 6's I can roll" which I can say most people would enjoy seing all the gore instaed of seeing "S5 beats T3"

well, you guys can always try some homebrew/house rules or just make your own scenarios. There are those more "cinematic" scenarios in the BRB after the core rules. You guys could always try those. Or if you make your own rules/comp, just do something like "no Rares" or "Core must be 50% of army", etc. That'd be good ways to get the kind of memorable narrative combats you want.

I don't know, I guess I'm still not quite understanding what it is exactly you're looking for, besides avoiding super competitive matches and avoiding players thinking about stat lines or something.

Going your own way is fine upto a point, but choosing the wrong units could well see you getting beaten every single game (because of troop choice) by others in your group going their own way....
This may be ok for a while, but getting repeatedly trounced would soon get old quick ... imho

Tell somebody to pick another army? Thor-almighty. I'd just -love- to hear after pouring close to $500 on my Beastmen that you know. I had to start a new army because somebody thought it was OP!

RatWolf wrote: tons of ethereals

Ill just leave this here happy...

If you're implying hexwraiths happy said he didn't want any...

Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:but seriously, web lists aren't as big of a deal in WHFB as they are in 40k. As long as your friends (and you) who play the stronger armies avoid the cheesy stuff (2 Hydras, tons of ethereals, 2 Ironblasters,anything in DoC, etc), all the matches should be fun and enjoyable. ...if that's what you're inferring it is you want.

C'mon where is the Daemon love. They can't be that OP. I hear they are good but I picked them before I knew anything about fantasy. And like happy said we are just looking to have a good time with this. Hence why I am running mono khorne. Which means no Karios + Blood Crushers or anything cheesy like that. Dunno how that plays in fantasy but I hate the combo in 40k and it is a copetative one something none of us want.

Matt Ward wrote the Daemon Book and broke 7th ed, they were incredibly OP. Now no more. In 8th all the armies have a chance of shooting themselves in the foot, all due to poor generalship or poor die.

..I'm thinking of starting a Daemon army after my Legion of Everblight are done.

Shadowbrand wrote:Matt Ward wrote the Daemon Book and broke 7th ed, they were incredibly OP. Now no more. In 8th all the armies have a chance of shooting themselves in the foot, all due to poor generalship or poor die.

..I'm thinking of starting a Daemon army after my Legion of Everblight are done.

You army whore But back on topic, keep your games firenddly and try to avoid becoming those WAAc persons we all hate to face. And beside Fantasy is much more even

Fantesy is a very even playing field, especially compared to 40k.

The only armies that could really struggle no matter what they did would be Wood Elves and Beastmen. Everything else is going to be a fair fight.


And remember that some themed armies are quite strong and beat face. A Mono-Khorne Chaos Army can and will eat face, with or without a Sorceror. Khorne's enemy is actually Slannesh, not Tzeentch, so it is plausible for a Tzeentch Sorceror to team up with a Khorne lord. Obviously with plenty of backstabbing planned for later.


Fantesy truly has good balance so if something is giving you trouble remember that you do have the tools avaliable to you. The most powerful Deathstar in the game can be destroyed with proper positioning.

A 50 man horde of Chaos Warriors, if flanked, can be run down by a unit of 9 Ogres if they get beated down to where they are no longer steadfast. Movement is very important in fantesy. It doesn't matter if you have the superior army on paper, if you get outmaneuvered you are toast.

It's true. Though I have every plan on keeping the armies in my sig!

The problem doesn't lie in the lists, it lies in the story telling and imagination.

When you fight "net lists", if it becomes just numbers, that's the fault on you. YOU are the one wanting to imagine, so IMAGINE! Hell, I do that all the time with cardboard cut out proxies AND netlists. I don't see the problem...

Now, unpainted net lists with no story and no character is a different matter. If players like that are in your group, then either you need to help get those players into the idea of fluff and story, or just let it go for those games.

Just remember that you can have a competitive list and still have fun.

Competitive and Story Driven are not mutually exclusive.


Which is why I reccomend you build your own lists and then tweak them to be competitive.

flamingwalnut wrote:The problem doesn't lie in the lists, it lies in the story telling and imagination.

When you fight "net lists", if it becomes just numbers, that's the fault on you. YOU are the one wanting to imagine, so IMAGINE! Hell, I do that all the time with cardboard cut out proxies AND netlists. I don't see the problem...

Now, unpainted net lists with no story and no character is a different matter. If players like that are in your group, then either you need to help get those players into the idea of fluff and story, or just let it go for those games.

Now I am currently creating my own wargame and I am using paper cutouts and I can imagine, but when I have played 40K when it comes to it we all have very cometitive lists which for me was just seeing S8 hit on T4 and intant deathing.

I wanted this game to be fun for all of us, and by going your direction with your army instaed of competitve builds I thought this would be awesome as people would feel good about the armys they play and enjoy the challenges, duels and tactical decisions they make, hell I love imagining things but 40K has gotten too (lets be honest) cut throat.

Now im still gonna play 40K because I love it, but there need to be a certain thing in fantasy where we can all enjoy and not like 40K "where somone gets trounced by difference in army lists"...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IHateNids wrote:

RatWolf wrote: tons of ethereals

Ill just leave this here happy...

If you're implying hexwraiths happy said he didn't want any...

I LOVE hexwraths but im not going to use them as they are slight cheese...

And I would not put an all-ethreal army I have zombie hordes ...

Happy if you like hex wraiths you should use them. You shouldn't have to not take them just because they are slightly cheesy. But if you can include a small amount and keep your horde you get to use two things you love.

redkeyboard wrote:Happy if you like hex wraiths you should use them. You shouldn't have to not take them just because they are slightly cheesy. But if you can include a small amount and keep your horde you get to use two things you love.

This. The best way to get people to play how you're envisioning is to encourage them to play what they love and/or like the looks of.

I didn't paint a Doomwhel and 2 PCCs just for them to sit on the shelf because conventional internet wisdom says "Abombs and WLCs ALL THE TIME".

I play this game to play what I want and make it work, not what the Collective Hivemind of the internet tells me to.

Well its just when it comes down to it I like hexwriths but I also like black knight so relly it has to come down to what mood im in when I buy some.

happygolucky wrote:Well its just when it comes down to it I like hexwriths but I also like black knight so relly it has to come down to what mood im in when I buy some.

The riders share no parts at all, so with extra horses, you can get both with one box.

Or swapable riders?

Some of happy's magnetisations (if thats a word) haven't been the best

IHateNids wrote:Some of happy's magnetisations (if thats a word) haven't been the best

I beg to differ....

Ghaskull.... DP... Warshpinx is totally interchangeable...

Didn't say they were all bad.

Jeez stop jumping down my throat

IHateNids wrote:Didn't say they were all bad.

Jeez stop jumping down my throat

He wasn't jumping down your throat really he was just saying happy has done good magnetisations.

My advice would be, keep playing the way YOU want to, even if your group goes hyper competitive. I used to play in an extremely competitive group in Ireland. All nice guys, but they were heavily invested in the tournament scene. I am an alright player, but sometimes I just plain don't like the "best" choice (an example in 5th edition, I wasn't a fan of how BW spam played, and I hate painting them, so I mostly ran footslogging orks. I also did a sort of elite themed ork list which was unconventional.)

Did I struggle to win? Yes. Did I sometimes get a little frustrated? Yes. Was it completely awesome to hold my own or win against an incredibly hard list? Oh hell yes. I didn't find that it diminished the storytelling aspect at all.

Also, gamers love stories. If you're the sort of player you seem to be (I mean, like me) then you should be able to engage all but the crustiest of grognards with your descriptions and enthusiasm for the narrative. When I played Fantasy regularly, I was very story driven and had an ongoing narrative for my games between battles. I find Fantasy is more conducive to that. Even when I played against my competitive friends, I kept my narrative, and they ended up enjoying it and incorporating their own narratives into their harder lists.

(I also think it's often possible to build a strong, unconventional and fluffy list that will confound the sort of meta net lists that are commonly played. My orks were a bit of a headache for some of my opponents because they were used to dealing with mechanised forces.)

Another thing I noticed was that you said that you hated armies that went against the fluff. I think that Warhammer is good in the way it is written because almost any build can be justified with a cool story. All sorts of weird things happen in the warhammer world. An army with two hydras could be a really interesting "plot point" in the narrative of your games.

Anyhow, I guess the tl;dr version of my advice is live and let live and take your enjoyment from your games, and spread your enthusiasm for the fluff side of things.

I recommend perhaps organising a campaign or something for your club.

A word of caution regarding netlists - whilst not dismissing them out of hand, one needs to keep in mind that they are developed within an enviroment that might not match the enviroment in which you pllay.

But then there are a number of sacred cows regarding 8th that don't entirely hold true - you have to have a level 4 and a BSB to name but two.