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Hey, I just have a quick question. I noticed IG Cadians can be taken in a squad of 50 and have horrible stats, I heat they are militia but I was wondering, how do they become a cadian? are they forced? or is it optional?

Thanks

Most of this Iv'e gotten off a friend who plays guard in many cponversatiosn and a few things from white dwarfs.
Most of Cadia's recruitment is done by conscription. Most Cadians start off as white shield's and then progress through the ranks. SO yet joining the cadians is forced, but most Cadians accept the fate and don't really argue against it.

Cadia is a planet. Regiments from Cadia are known as Cadian Shock Troops. In the fluff, Cadians are actually highly experienced and well-trained soldiers.

Well, they "become" Cadian by being born on Cadia. Incidently, in the case of Cadians, they become IG by being born on Cadia, too!

Basically, Cadia is one big military academy. Everyone gets trained for the Guard. Also, Cadians are born and bred soldiers, they're proud of their status. So no on all counts - not milita, not forced, and not optional!

Cadia, being inside the Eye Of Terror's influence, has no other choice than to conscript every man, woman and child born on the planet to defend itself.
You're taught to fire a lasgun at 12, and you've been completely signed up with the Imperial Guard by 16-18. The people of Cadia see it as an opportunity to earn honour for their people and defend their home, so it's never seen as undesirable.

Ok, I see how that works now, thanks for all your input.

Whiteshields were an earlier version of the conscript squads you can pick in the new IG codex. Yes, they had terrible stats. As the fluff went they were unbloodied troops looking to prove themself. The "white shield" refers to the fact they haven't earned the right to wear a regiment mark yet.

Spetulhu wrote:Whiteshields were an earlier version of the conscript squads you can pick in the new IG codex. Yes, they had terrible stats. As the fluff went they were unbloodied troops looking to prove themself. The "white shield" refers to the fact they haven't earned the right to wear a regiment mark yet.

Lol, I bet only a few survive that long in the IG.

The entire planet is conscripted into either the Interior Guard (PDF) or the Shock Troops (IG). To quote the 5th Ed. Codex: "The Entire population of Cadia is destined for a military life, the birth rate and recruitment rate being synonymous." Kids are even supposed to be able to fieldstrip a lasgun and reassemble it at the age of ten. 'Nuff Said.

Pretty much Cadians are born into the military, a lot like Spartans, everyone fights in the IG. The best among them are made into Kasrkin (Cadian Storm Troopers) when they are children and are given superior training and equipment. They are actually very skilled soldiers, they only suck and are portrayed as sucking because they are the generic Guardsmen, just like Ultramarines are the generic Space Marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dayvuni wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:Whiteshields were an earlier version of the conscript squads you can pick in the new IG codex. Yes, they had terrible stats. As the fluff went they were unbloodied troops looking to prove themself. The "white shield" refers to the fact they haven't earned the right to wear a regiment mark yet.

Lol, I bet only a few survive that long in the IG.

IIRC there is a novel in the IG titles 15 hours or 19 hours or something about some draftee in the guard (not Cadian) who gets sent to a world where they are battling Orks and told that the average lifespan is less than a day (the time mentioned in the title 15 hours or 19 hours). So yeah, generic guardsmen aren't expected to last long.

Buttons wrote:
IIRC there is a novel in the IG titles 15 hours or 19 hours or something about some draftee in the guard (not Cadian) who gets sent to a world where they are battling Orks and told that the average lifespan is less than a day (the time mentioned in the title 15 hours or 19 hours). So yeah, generic guardsmen aren't expected to last long.

"Fifteen Hours" is kind of a bad example.

The "New Fish"(unblooded troops who are dumped into the warzone, whether on purpose or by accident) are expected to die far before the 15 hour mark because they have a lot of things going against them.

1) The reinforcements aren't always dropped where they can actually get to the Guard Regiments(or what's left of them) have set up their positions.
2) They're fighting an Ork force which has completely overran the planet.
3) There is no help coming. Everyone is looking out for themselves, trying to survive as long as they can in the hope that some kind of salvation is coming.

After 15 hours, the squads that the New Fish are put into actually care to learn their names.

Dayvuni wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:Whiteshields were an earlier version of the conscript squads you can pick in the new IG codex. Yes, they had terrible stats. As the fluff went they were unbloodied troops looking to prove themself. The "white shield" refers to the fact they haven't earned the right to wear a regiment mark yet.

Lol, I bet only a few survive that long in the IG.

This is a common misconception. And is definately not true for Cadian guardsmen, along with the other well known and "elite" guard regiments.

No. The Guard doesn't always just throw men into the guns of their enemies because they can. Valhallens and similar worlds do. But they are a minority. The few ruin it for the majority. In other words, those few regiments that are known for doing this make it seem like all regiments do.

It's funny just because of your signature
But I agree with you. Nothing would get done in the IG if their only advantage was the ability to lose way more troops than the opposite side.
The TT doesn't help that perception either, making it a perfectly valid strategy to throw a blob of infantry man just to tie up the enemy for a few turns.

Why don;t we hear more about mass success of the IG than them getting slaughtered? If that is what GW and the BL writers want why is that the stereo type? Why don't they paint the IG as a force worth reckoning with instead of a meat guard for SM. Isn't that kinda unfair for IG?

Dayvuni wrote:Why don;t we hear more about mass success of the IG than them getting slaughtered? If that is what GW and the BL writers want why is that the stereo type? Why don't they paint the IG as a force worth reckoning with instead of a meat guard for SM. Isn't that kinda unfair for IG?

It is unfair for them. But there are novels depicting the Guard in good ways. Most of the time that there are no Space Marines in novels involving guard, they are painted in a pretty good light. Read Cadain Blood, the Guant's Ghost's novels, Flesh and Iron, Rebel Winter, Ice Warriors, and a few others. They all show that the Guard are humans, and they are pretty damn good as soldiers.

BL and GW writers like to have the IG slaughtered, because it makes it easier for the Space Marines to swoop in, save the day, and look like gods. Just as GW intended.

edit:

@Kovnik Obama: I use that as my signiture because of its hilarity. The Tactica Imperium- the collection of tactics for use in the command of guardsmen- actually says to just throw guardsmen into something if nothing else works. This is taught in military schools and academies to officers. I think it's pretty funny.

Dayvuni wrote:Why don;t we hear more about mass success of the IG than them getting slaughtered? If that is what GW and the BL writers want why is that the stereo type? Why don't they paint the IG as a force worth reckoning with instead of a meat guard for SM. Isn't that kinda unfair for IG?

Seriously?

Because the IG, while a force worth reckoning with, does not win wars on its own when facing any of the "major" foes of the Imperium.
The Guard wins these wars by working in cohesion with the Navy, the Legio Titanicus, the Mechanicum, and the Astartes.

It is. But let's be honest ; almost all of the IG regiments are twisted up to a point if we compare them to current military forces (at least the modern ones). It the Grimdark factor. Even the commissar from the Tanith 1st, noted for his leniency, executes an officer for having refused to advance through a minefield. The commissar's reply was something like "Funny, that, a minefield on a battlefield". I mean, you have all this incredible long range ordnance, and you still think clearing a minefield by making your soldiers take a jog through it is an appropriate solution?

Yeah. I'm thinking the military education must sucks at the Progenia.

Kovnik Obama wrote:It is. But let's be honest ; almost all of the IG regiments are twisted up to a point if we compare them to current military forces (at least the modern ones). It the Grimdark factor. Even the commissar from the Tanith 1st, noted for his leniency, executes an officer for having refused to advance through a minefield. The commissar's reply was something like "Funny, that, a minefield on a battlefield". I mean, you have all this incredible long range ordnance, and you still think clearing a minefield by making your soldiers take a jog through it is an appropriate solution?

Yeah. I'm thinking the military education must sucks at the Progenia.

Just a note, it was Hark not Gaunt who executed the tank company officer for "having refused to advance through a minefield". He refused to execute a driver who bailed out of a tank, but shot the officer in charge of the company.

It also wasn't just for "having refused to advance through a minefield". The officer called for an immediate reversal of all his vehicles with no warning to the infantry who were advancing as support, nearly killing the infantry using them as cover.

The minefields were not documented, and if you were to really present the situation as it was: there was no reason to expect mines. The enemy was sectors away, with no way to get into Imperial lines.

Ignatius wrote:

Dayvuni wrote:Why don;t we hear more about mass success of the IG than them getting slaughtered? If that is what GW and the BL writers want why is that the stereo type? Why don't they paint the IG as a force worth reckoning with instead of a meat guard for SM. Isn't that kinda unfair for IG?

It is unfair for them. But there are novels depicting the Guard in good ways. Most of the time that there are no Space Marines in novels involving guard, they are painted in a pretty good light. Read Cadain Blood, the Guant's Ghost's novels, Flesh and Iron, Rebel Winter, Ice Warriors, and a few others. They all show that the Guard are humans, and they are pretty damn good as soldiers.

BL and GW writers like to have the IG slaughtered, because it makes it easier for the Space Marines to swoop in, save the day, and look like gods. Just as GW intended.

There should be a story when the IG are getting slaughtered and the SM do as soon as they "Swoop" in. I might just write that in Dakka Fiction

Just a note, it was Hark not Gaunt who executed the tank company officer for "having refused to advance through a minefield". He refused to execute a driver who bailed out of a tank, but shot the officer in charge of the company.

It also wasn't just for "having refused to advance through a minefield". The officer called for an immediate reversal of all his vehicles with no warning to the infantry who were advancing as support, nearly killing the infantry using them as cover.

The minefields were not documented, and if you were to really present the situation as it was: there was no reason to expect mines. The enemy was sectors away, with no way to get into Imperial lines.

Completely true, I forgot about the fact he actually did run over one guy (or at least it was heavily suggested). And I thought that Hark was also noted for being more lenient?
So yeah, in a sense, the officer really reacted like a moron. But they did ask of him (or expect) that he continue his advance in the minefield, which is pretty dumb.

Hark is lenient--but knows when to apply force.

He was asked about why he wouldn't shoot the driver of one of the tank crews when he was cowering in a ditch, but would shoot the officer in command of the regiment.

Paraphrasing here, as I've not read "His Last Command" in awhile.

His reply was that if a trooper is so terrified that he won't stop and listen to Hark, a Commissar brandishing his gun, then he's useless to be on the field. That's not necessarily the soldier's fault, it's the officers who trained him for war's fault.

If I remember correctly, that same unit also had dozer-blades on the fronts of their tanks, and could have cleared the minefield rather easily... still risky, but not certain death.

They also called in artillery on the Ghosts, if I recall.

So, if they are all conscripted.....and IG is for life. How does the planet function?
Surely there must some who go on to own a store.

His reply was that if a trooper is so terrified that he won't stop and listen to Hark, a Commissar brandishing his gun, then he's useless to be on the field. That's not necessarily the soldier's fault, it's the officers who trained him for war's fault.

Yeah I remember that part, Hark seemed pretty badass. But its the only Gaunt's Ghost I've red lately, so I didn't remember his character in other books.

I don't recall anything about dozer blades.

So, if they are all conscripted.....and IG is for life. How does the planet function?
Surely there must some who go on to own a store.

I imagine as an enormous army. The Government is essentially the commanding officer's cadre. The economy is entirely done through requisition, etc...

hotsauceman1 wrote:So, if they are all conscripted.....and IG is for life. How does the planet function?
Surely there must some who go on to own a store.

I think that in the Rulebook, Cadia is described as being between 60-70% "under arms" as the book puts it. So it leads me to believe that it is similar to the United States during World War II. The men go off to fight while women work in the factories.

There are no stores, only commissaries and PX depots.

Ignatius wrote: while women work in the factories.

Wrong, lack of balls does not allow you to escape from the guard. There are female regiments for that.

Also, as wrong as it may sound IIRC there are "breeding" programs on cadia too... I know i read that somewhere but I can't recall where.

My take on Cadia is that everyone is conscripted into the PDF. Their time in the active PDF is X number of years. After X has passed they either go on to be career PDF, career guard or reserve PDF. Doing the mundane everyday things like raising food, working in factories, making babies, etc. When the need arises they are called up to active PDF until the threat is stopped and then again return to mundane life.

hotsauceman1 wrote:So, if they are all conscripted.....and IG is for life. How does the planet function?
Surely there must some who go on to own a store.

IG isn't always for life, regiments can be allowed to return home with honour if they fight particularly well. Also some regiments (eg. Vostroyan) receive constant flows of recruits, so I imagine that they also are allowed to return home eventually since the losses through retirement would be replaced in time.

Also, as wrong as it may sound IIRC there are "breeding" programs on cadia too... I know i read that somewhere but I can't recall where.

Cadian Blood. Thade and Tionenji discuss Cadia and later on Relations and that's where Thade drops the fact that Cadians have "Breeding Programs", with the simple explanation that Cadians don't have time for marriages, 'cause they actually like fighting more (Also stated in CB).