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I am a necron player.... any suggestions on stuff to use against Marn., and 5 assault termies?

Kite them around with annihilation barges?

Wraiths should do well versus terminators. If you can work MSS into the mix then even better.

Whip wraiths are the bomb. Just remember: if you attach a D-lord for MSS goodness.... you'll have to roll for terrain.

How would wraiths do well against terminators? Wraiths are instakilled and the termis are always getting a 2+ or 3+ save. Usually the 2+.

Wraiths with Whipcoils: Models in B2B are I1. St 6 Rending 3attacks base. 3++ save. Terminators, Schmerminators.

gregor_xenos wrote:Wraiths with Whipcoils: Models in B2B are I1. St 6 Rending 3attacks base. 3++ save. Terminators, Schmerminators.

Terminators would be striking last most of the time anyways due to Pfist or TH/SS. Only a Tactical Terminator Sergeant or Lightning Claws would have a reduced effectiveness from Whip Coils if I remember correctly.

I think on average TH/SS terminators would win combat with wraiths (assuming 5 models each, wraiths get charge), but I would be interested to see some math hammer on the issue.

It's been my expierence that a 6 wraith 5 termie battle will last at least 2 turns (@4 CC phases) before one or the other is finally smooshed. My 6 man (wound allocation of course; has never lost to a 5 man termie squad *including "alternative lifestyle" knights..... I foolishly charged them into a 10 man once.... and regretted it.
Also avoid 30 ork boyz lol.

Wraiths. A-barges can put enough wounds to make em fail as well (I've had one do 12 wounds before in one volley!)

Nemesor Erutek wrote:I am a necron player.... any suggestions on stuff to use against Marn., and 5 assault termies?

How is your opponent deploying them?

Soften them up with shooting followed by an assault from a dedicated unit. Tesla works in this situation. 3 tesla Destructors (for math-hammers sake that's 3 A. Barges) is approximately 15 hits, 13 wounds and 2 failed saves. If you can get 2 rounds of this in before you smack them down with Wraiths it's an easy combat.

Okay I face my friend and he uses the stupid land raider to transport them..... makes me very unhappy....

gregor_xenos wrote:It's been my expierence that a 6 wraith 5 termie battle will last at least 2 turns (@4 CC phases) before one or the other is finally smooshed. My 6 man (wound allocation of course; has never lost to a 5 man termie squad *including "alternative lifestyle" knights..... I foolishly charged them into a 10 man once.... and regretted it.
Also avoid 30 ork boyz lol.

What good is wound allocation or whip coils vs thunder hammer & storm shield terminators? You can't allocate instant death hits. Wraiths vs my obliterators is usually a wash, and TH&SS termis are much better than my powerfist 5+ save obliterators. The wraiths pretty much have to rend to get a wound, and every save you fail is a dead wraith. Granted the obliterators have 2 wounds apiece, but no would allocation.

A friend of mine runs a 5 man lightning claw squad and i have had pretty good success with an 8 man lychguard unit, termies with claws only wound them on 5+ and the guard have access to a 4++ save, not to mention they wound termies on a 3+ with power weapons.

scarabs or heavy gauss to pop the raider, A deathmark/veiltek suicide squad to cut the unit down to just a few models and then focused fire or dedicated assault to clean up the last couple termis and marn. That unit plus its transport is like 700pts, standard deathstar treatment.

Actinium wrote:scarabs or heavy gauss to pop the raider, A deathmark/veiltek suicide squad to cut the unit down to just a few models and then focused fire or dedicated assault to clean up the last couple termis and marn. That unit plus its transport is like 700pts, standard deathstar treatment.

Yep. This is why my current list runs enough anti-tank to bust open a transport and then 2 kill squads of deathmarks with a veiltek. They won't necessarily wipe out a squad like this but they will soften it up to the point it is not much of a threat anymore. If I can take this down I am going to put a major dent in my opponents attack plan. Whatever you do your #1 goal with a really pricy squad is to force them to make as many saves as they can for as cheap as you can. Winning against deathstar squads is all about point trading them into near uselessness or flat out tarpitting. I honestly don't think Necrons have a unit that can tarpit a cc monster unit like this very well. Mindshackle scarabs could work nicely against a squad like this, but it begs the question of how to effectively deliver the MSS and not get totally wrecked.

Well that's the point entirely. You could put the points into a big unit of Lychguard with 2 MSS lords attached and an IC for even more smackdown. Or you just use a CCBarge lord to sweep the tank then hose the unit inside with Tesla. The 2nd option is cheaper and with less opportunities to go wrong.

Lukus83 wrote:Well that's the point entirely. You could put the points into a big unit of Lychguard with 2 MSS lords attached and an IC for even more smackdown. Or you just use a CCBarge lord to sweep the tank then hose the unit inside with Tesla. The 2nd option is cheaper and with less opportunities to go wrong.

I was honestly gonna suggest Lychguard, but this guy's got it right. My only comment on that is that, even if the Lychguard don't kill the Terminators outright, they're still a very tough cookie that can keep them tied up for a long time. When shooting fails (and it WILL, every now and then), those Terminators can still move as they please. It is possible that throwing a bunch of Lychguard at them can allow you to move other things around as it suits you for a turn or two, even if you don't kill them.

just dakka the bejesus out of them with gauss fire. inflict enough wounds on a small unit, and they will fail those saves eventually.

DarthSpader wrote:just dakka the bejesus out of them with gauss fire. inflict enough wounds on a small unit, and they will fail those saves eventually.

That COULD work, but to be honest, the amount of fire you'd be putting on them to get there could be better used elsewhere, if you throw a dedicated unit or some more serious firepower at them.

I would think that Tesla Immortals woudl soften them up a bit too. Potentially a lot of S5 firepower, granted they will get armour saves, but a couple shoudl still go down.

i am looking forward to trying this vs my friends Ragnar/Rune Priest/Wolf Guard Death Star squad.

Yeah, Tesla messes up 2+ saves real bad. Especially if you manage to TL it with a Stalker.

Your best option would be to wreck the raider as early as possable so they have to walk. That basically nerfs the entire unit right there.

Kevlar wrote:

gregor_xenos wrote:It's been my expierence that a 6 wraith 5 termie battle will last at least 2 turns (@4 CC phases) before one or the other is finally smooshed. My 6 man (wound allocation of course; has never lost to a 5 man termie squad *including "alternative lifestyle" knights..... I foolishly charged them into a 10 man once.... and regretted it.
Also avoid 30 ork boyz lol.

What good is wound allocation or whip coils vs thunder hammer & storm shield terminators? You can't allocate instant death hits.

Ummm.... Yes you can. They have a 3+ inv.... Put those ID hits on the desired model.... just hope you have enough allocated wounds to "wrap around".

Wound allocation on multi-wound models works because you can allocate wounds in such a way that your opponent has to inflict a wound to every model before he can actually kill one model. Instant death attacks short cut that because if you take a wound you remove an entire model.

Certainly through allocation you can reduce the ability to carry over wounds to the rest of the unit, so your opponent has to wound each model, but you do miss out on the full benefits of allocation.

So...
I have 3 different kits in a squad. I have to allocate 2 ID wounds and 2 regular wounds. Said models have a 3+ inv save.

Mini A: ID
Mini B: regular
Mini C: regular
Mini A: ID

Is this not correct? If not then why? Wounds have been allocated over the possible minis, and rolled back around to drop the remining one on a mini with a previously allocated wound.

That is correct

If you're accounting for a power weapon termi sgt then i guess but with marn+th/ss termis you're just getting a bunch of ID, there are no regular hits in this scenario. You can still do something like take 1 wound from shooting on the way to the combat then allocate the first ID attack onto that model grouping so you can remove a 1 wound model or take hits on wraiths without coils before you take hits on wraiths with coils but otherwise ID doesn't care about allocation shenanigans.

I wiped my BT friends assault ermies in a single turn with X5 deathamrks and a veiltek, that str 8 ap1 template killed 4 of em!

Exalted Pariah wrote:I wiped my BT friends assault ermies in a single turn with X5 deathamrks and a veiltek, that str 8 ap1 template killed 4 of em!

Then you were exceedingly lucky. To catch them outside of their land raider, not in an assault, have your deepstrike land perfectly to hit that many with a flamer template, no mishaps, and then have them all fail their 3+ invulnerable saves...

I often soften them up with a Lord w/scythe and CCB then mono vacuum them. I honestly don't know why my monolith does so well at my store...voodoo ritual or something.