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Given that for 15 pts, you get another model and a free weapon. If you have wolf guard with the squad, they cannot ride in a Rhino. But can't you get a Razorback and use it as shield while opting to use only the special weapon models to shoot and thus not granting your opponent more cover save than necessary?

Whoa ton of thoughts here.

The problem with a 10 strong GH squad is their lower leadership really hurts. The chance to fail a ld 8 test is about 30%, where a ld 9 is 16%. This is a huge difference in gameplay and if you demech them 1/3 of the time the unit is pinned. If you then shoot at the non-pinned units to force a ld test, 1/3 of the time they flee.

You can buy the razorback, but you are still exposed and your unit is slow which defeats part of the advantage of meching up.

For a little bit more you can build a really scary GH squad with...Melta, Combi-Melta, MotW, Wolf Standard, Fist which puts out a ton of hurt in CC and has just about the same shooting. Look at how many times you shoot most of your melta guns in a game, and I think you will see the combi is a pretty good option (if you shoot more than twice you are probably running away with the game anyway)

I am contemplating a full 10-man + GH walking behind a Assault Cannon Razorback. I only get to move 6" with the AssCanBack anyway. I get the free weapon, Ld9 and provide the enemy with more targets.

My only problem with this option is what happen if they start bombarding me with Vindicators, IG shennanigans, 3 TFC. I guess my LF will have to take those out ASAP.

I understand that meching is for movement and protection. But, isn't Razor wall and walking infantry ok reliable-wise? I only need to dominate the mid field and getting cover save is not so hard behind a Razorback.

One use I have for ten man grey hunter squads is as plasma fire support. Ten men, two plasma guns, and they shoot out the top hatch of the rhino.

If you put a wolf guard into the unit, you can easily run them as 10 man. The problem is everyone has it in their wolf sized brains that running razor spam is the only way to play. Break the mold, win more games.

I'm just starting my SW army, so be kind to the rookie. I'm thinking of taking 10 GH, a WG in Terminator armor, attaching a Wolf Lord in Terminator with two Fenrisian Wolves, and putting the whole package in a Crusader. Give the Lord a Storm Shield, and use the unit as the assault force instead of pure WG termies.

The rest of the army would be designed to support this unit. Long Fangs, Wolf Scouts, a couple of 5 man GH units in Razorbacks, and enough WG to put a Cyclone in the Long Fangs.

Is this just a terrible idea?

BB

10's only good if you plan on running them in something with more than 10 transport capacity. A Wolf Guard is usually better than having 2 special weapons for many reasons (higher Ld, cheaper PF, etc).

I'm building an all foot space wolves army and really support the 10 man gh squads. Never thought about adding wg with the packs but guess they're worth it with the higher leadership.

spacewolf407 wrote:I'm building an all foot space wolves army and really support the 10 man gh squads. Never thought about adding wg with the packs but guess they're worth it with the higher leadership.

Plus that's 2 special weapons + combi-special weapon in the squad! I ran 10 + WG + Wolf Priest in a Redeemer at a tournament and they were pretty nasty. Didn't perform quite as well as I'd hoped though.

Because people who run 9-man Grey Hunter squads are showing their secret allegiance to Tzeentch.

Or they're simply running off a selection of models they bought/painted/put squad markings on back when nine Grey Hunters were better than ten and didn't feel like making a switch.

beerbeard wrote:I'm just starting my SW army, so be kind to the rookie. I'm thinking of taking 10 GH, a WG in Terminator armor, attaching a Wolf Lord in Terminator with two Fenrisian Wolves, and putting the whole package in a Crusader. Give the Lord a Storm Shield, and use the unit as the assault force instead of pure WG termies.

The rest of the army would be designed to support this unit. Long Fangs, Wolf Scouts, a couple of 5 man GH units in Razorbacks, and enough WG to put a Cyclone in the Long Fangs.

Is this just a terrible idea?

BB

No, aside from the fact that Fenrisian Wolves count as two models when it comes to transport space, which means that not even the Crusader can carry that many models. Sorry. Another popular choice for hard-hitting assault is filling up a Crusader with 15 Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest.

The other reason aside from the wolf guard is to give the rune priest(s) somewhere to go.

As a lot of their powers are mid ranged at best (apart from living lightning of course), they need to go a bit forwards and a few rhinos with reduced grey hunter squads fits the bill nicely.

A wolf guard is 18p to the GH's 15. Compare that to the price of upgrading a nob, or a chaos marine aspiring champion, or the +10p slapped on a vanilla tactical squad for good ol' sarge (Who you have no choice in taking), so even with losing the free special weapon the price for the extra LD isn't too pricey at all.

10 GH work well, but I've often been hurt by that leadership, or in a tank hunting squad a powerfist with one attack on the profile. Like others said, 10 GH with plasma guns works well as a fire base.

I think the crusader can carry that many models. It totals 16.

No, it totals 18, because Fenrisian Wolves are counted twice just like Terminators are. 10 GH + 2 Terminators + 2 FW = 18 models. 18 > 16, therefore somebody has to walk.

Teln wrote:No, it totals 18, because Fenrisian Wolves are counted twice just like Terminators are. 10 GH + 2 Terminators + 2 FW = 18 models. 18 > 16, therefore somebody has to walk.

Just take the new Stormeagle if you want that much transport space.

No were in the SW codex does it say Fenrisian Wolves count as 2 models for transports.

Rex, look at the bottom of page 31. You will see the "Loyal Companions" special rule. Read it carefully.

Teln wrote:Rex, look at the bottom of page 31. You will see the "Loyal Companions" special rule. Read it carefully.

Rex-Nine wrote:No were in the SW codex does it say Fenrisian Wolves count as 2 models for transports.

Oh snap!

I read it. "wolves bought as part of a character's wargear allowance may enter vehicles with a transport capacity , though they will count as two models" (C:SW 31)
RAI I think they are trying to say that the wolves bought as wargear do take up space, 2 wolves, 2 models. To back this up why would wolves only bought as wargear count as 2 models each and not wolves bought as a pack?

Fenrisian Wolves cannot embark on transports at all because they are Beasts. Fenrisian Wolves bought as wargear are the exception.

Your right my bad

I am tempted to try 10 GH with melta guns in a drop pod. It comes down in your first turn instantly so has a chance of getting behind or next to some nasty big tank or MC. Also because of the way it scatters it should survive rough landings.

You can then get 2 melta shots and knock out (with a bit of luck) a nasty threat. Sure you are probably going to get alpha'd but it gives the rest of your dudes a break to move up.

Congratulations, you have just independently discovered "Suicide Sternguard". Space Wolves usually go with combi-melta Wolf Guard instead, because it lets you take even more meltaguns. With five meltas you can reasonably expect to pop a Land Raider in one Shooting phase, and since they're going to get torn apart anyways the one-shot limitation doesn't matter. If you're really feeling mean, you could DP in a LF pack with multimeltas and Logan Grimnar to make them Relentless, but points-wise this is very expensive.

I'm not sure about dropping in 5 Wolf Guard, although I suppose that they would just be the squad that your pack leaders come from.

Teln wrote:Congratulations, you have just independently discovered "Suicide Sternguard". Space Wolves usually go with combi-melta Wolf Guard instead, because it lets you take even more meltaguns. With five meltas you can reasonably expect to pop a Land Raider in one Shooting phase, and since they're going to get torn apart anyways the one-shot limitation doesn't matter. If you're really feeling mean, you could DP in a LF pack with multimeltas and Logan Grimnar to make them Relentless, but points-wise this is very expensive.

Throw in Arjac and with some wound allocation, you might be surprised to see Arjac and Logan still kicking strong if your opponent doesn't throw enough at them. Then the fun begins

Ok. I had a game in today and I tried out the 11 guy per squad (double special weapon + combi wolf guard, double power fists, mark, standard).

My tactical placement is not good and Mephiston killed 1 grey hunter squad, 1 long fang squad and a dreadnought. The Sanguinor killed one grey hunter squad (lose 2 wounds in the process). The sanguinary guard killed the grey hunter squad with the Rune Priest + another 11-man grey hunter double powerfist before they themselves died of the powerfist attacks.

So my 1000+ pts power-troop got slammed big time by < 1000 pts of BA assault units. I must be doing something wrong.

I wonder if dropping 1 special weapon and putting them all in Rhino could have helped.

leohart wrote:Ok. I had a game in today and I tried out the 11 guy per squad (double special weapon + combi wolf guard, double power fists, mark, standard).

My tactical placement is not good and Mephiston killed 1 grey hunter squad, 1 long fang squad and a dreadnought. The Sanguinor killed one grey hunter squad (lose 2 wounds in the process). The sanguinary guard killed the grey hunter squad with the Rune Priest + another 11-man grey hunter double powerfist before they themselves died of the powerfist attacks.

So my 1000+ pts power-troop got slammed big time by < 1000 pts of BA assault units. I must be doing something wrong.

I wonder if dropping 1 special weapon and putting them all in Rhino could have helped.

That should not have happened.

1) Your Rune Priest was obviously full of fail, because he has a 50% chance to cancel Mephiston's psychic powers each time he tries to use them. And without those powers, a GH squad should be able to use its PF & MotW to bring down Meph very quickly.

2) Your opponent had Mephiston AND the Sanguinor? That's like eleventy-billion points wrapped up in his HQs. (Okay, obviously not, but he still should have been badly outnumbered)

3) If you dropped the 10th GH and put them into a Rhino, you would have a very, very mean army to fight.

4) Your Long Fangs should have ruined the BA's plans if they were mech'd up; because a foot BA list will get stomped by your Rune Priest if he had Murderous Hurricane to slow them down.

Here is his list

Sanguinor
Memphiston

Sanguinary guard (5 guys): 5 Infernus Pistol
Priest on jump pack - Power weapon
Dreadnought with Blood Talons in a Drop Pod (magna grapple)

10-man Assault marine with 2 meltaguns in a Rhino
10-man Assault marine with 2 meltaguns in a Rhino
10-man Assault marine with 2 meltaguns in a Rhino

Typhoon + MM
Typhoon + MM

That's 1940 points. I must have been missing something but he reserves everything except for Meph.

My turn 1, I move up the Razorbacks. His turn 1, Mephiston is out of Rune Priest range so he fly, fleet and stuck himself to one GH plasma squad. Droppod with Dreadnought goes down.

My turn 2, I shuffle and finish his Drop Pod + Dreadnought. Meph is surrounded so I cannot get more people in. He finishes them off. His turn 2, he flies (failed to block :() and stuck himself to a Long Fang squad in a nearby ruins. Sainguinor comes down and everything comes in.

I shoot everything and he takes 2 wounds on the Sanguinor, lose his speeders and one of the Rhino is stunned. 2+ saves of Sang guards and Sanguinor + priest FNP makes my Long Fangs missiles not working very well.

Then he goes ahead and mop up the floor. :( Sigh.

I must be doing something really really wrong.

Other than Mephiston nothing gets FnP against krak missiles. If you expect to bring Blood Angels down with frag missiles, think again.