Would the guard's special forces have acesses to Jetpacks?

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**Bry648**

I thought I saw picture a while back with a stormtroopers with a jet pack. I could easily see the guard having jet packs reversed for some there special forces. I could them using for raid attacks or getting to higher ground.

**Beaviz81**

Post the pic.

**pretre**

They are used occasionally in the fluff (Gaunt's Ghost series uses them at one point) but are not common. Grav chutes are much more common and represented in the rules.

**Sturmtruppen**

Maybe for Navy Stormtroopers.

**Kanluwen**

pretre wrote:They are used occasionally in the fluff (Gaunt's Ghost series uses them at one point) but are not common. Grav chutes are much more common and represented in the rules.

They weren't jet or jump packs in the "Guns of Tanith". They were specialized versions of grav-chutes.

It's important to remember that "grav-chutes" are actually fairly complex pieces of kit, and aren't actually that common. They utilize suspensor fields to essentially 'push' against the ground to slow the descent of the trooper.

**Melissia**

Yeah, they definitely weren't jet packs.

**pretre**

Hmph. Been a while since I read it. Interesting.

**Flinty**

Guns of Tanith, p410 (omnibus version):
"Type 5 infantry jump pack"

p411:
"standard Guard variant of the assault jump pack"

A specialised version of the grav chute that allows limited flight. Sounds like a jetpack to me

**pretre**

Ooooh. Thanks, Flinty! I didn't think I was that senile yet.

**Yori**

Well if the Tanith haves those I'm pretty sure that the Elysian and Harakoni would too, and in larger quantities as those are more standard in the regiments from those worlds. Though I would like to know how "limited" is the flight that they can provide.

**Hunterindarkness**

All in the world. They would not be common, but they are within the range of what some worlds could make.

**Kanluwen**

Flinty wrote:Straight silver, p410:
"Type 5 infantry jump pack"

p411:
"standard Guard variant of the assault jump pack"

A specialised version of the grav chute that allows limited flight. Sounds like a jetpack to me

Note:
The page numbers coincide with "The Saint" omnibus. If you only have "The Guns of Tanith", it is page 150.
p410
"Type Five Icarus-pattern Personal Descent Unit with dual M12 gravity nullers and a variable-vent compressor fan for attitude control."

So no. Not a jetpack.
It's a specialized grav chute with a compressor enabling for fine tuned drops.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Yori wrote:Well if the Tanith haves those I'm pretty sure that the Elysian and Harakoni would too, and in larger quantities as those are more standard in the regiments from those worlds. Though I would like to know how "limited" is the flight that they can provide.

The Tanith did not have them. The Phantine did.

**Hunterindarkness**

Yori wrote:Well if the Tanith haves those

They did not have them, one of the other regiments did. It was on of the forge worlds regiments they got them loaned from for the mission

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:
So no. Not a jetpack.
It's a specialized grav chute with a compressor enabling for fine tuned drops.

.

If it walks like a duck........ Yes they were grav units, however they worked like jetpacks, they flew with them.

**Kanluwen**

Hunterindarkness wrote:
Yori wrote:Well if the Tanith haves those

They did not have them, one of the other regiments did. It was on of the forge worlds regiments they got them loaned from for the mission

It was not a "forge world" regiment. The Phantine are a drop/airborne regiment.

Kanluwen wrote:
So no. Not a jetpack.
It's a specialized grav chute with a compressor enabling for fine tuned drops.

.

If it walks like a duck........ Yes they were grav units, however they worked like jetpacks, they flew with them.

They did not "fly" with them. They were able to hover, with lateral and tuning movement being done by bursts of compressed air from the PDU.
By adjusting the output of the gravity nullers, you would ascend and descend. By discharging air from the compressor fan, you would control the direction and speed you were moving.

There were no "jets" involved in this system at all, at all.
You're looking at the bill, and calling a platypus a duck.

**Yori**

Oops my bad I only read half of one of the books :(, but can any one answer my question - How much flight to these things provide - a few meters, a few hundred meters?

Edit: Oh i saw a comment on that my bad again :( .

**pretre**

Yeah, they call it a jump pack throughout the entire book. Here's the whole quote:

Babbist opened the crate and lifted something out for them all to see. It was a compact but heavy metal backpack with a fearsome harness that included thigh loops, and a hinged arm with a moulded handgrip on the left side. The backpack sprouted two blunt, antler-like horns from the shoulders that ended in fist-sized metal balls. It was painted matt-green.

“What we have here, friends and neighbours,” said Babbist, patting the old, worn unit, “is a classic type five infantry jump pack. Accept no imitations. Formal spec, for those that need it, is Type Five Icarus-Pattern Personal Descent Unit with dual M12 gravity nullers and a variable-vent compressor fan for attitude control. Which, I gather, many of you need.”

There were some laughs, but the Ghosts’ attention was fixed on the device.
“Manufactured on Lucius forge world,” Babbist continued, “it’s the standard Guard variant of the assault jump pack. Smaller and lighter, not to mention more compact, than the heavy jobs used by the Adeptus Astartes. The Marines, Emperor bless ’em, need heavier duty babies to hold them in the air. Besides which, we’re not gods. We wouldn’t be able to stand up with one of the Astartes packs yoked to us.”

You can call it what you want, but it is clear that Abnett is indicating it is a jump pack.

**Kanluwen**

Yori wrote:Oops my bad I only read half of one of the books :(, but can any one answer my question - How much flight to these things provide - a few meters, a few hundred meters?

Not very much. They were used for the insertion portion of 'Operation: Larisel', and then immediately ditched when the Tanith and Phantine were at the target.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

pretre wrote:
You can call it what you want, but it is clear that Abnett is indicating it is a jump pack.

I'm not debating that it was used--and labeled-- as a jump pack, pretre.

"Jump packs" are not necessarily "jet packs".
The terms are not really interchangeable, especially when you're calling something which uses no jets at all a jet pack.

**Hunterindarkness**

They flew a few hundred meters if I recall, some more, some less. They could have used them longer but .!: the world had a bad atmo, and @: they were trying to be stealthy and did not wish to be targets. The range of the pack had nothing to do with ditching them, also you must recall those people using them had very, very little training with them and disliked using them anyhow.

What ever they name the wearer had the power of flight and not just a few meters, they also hovered. Jump pack was as ill fitting name as "jet pack" naming aside they did just what a jet pack does.

**Necrosis**

Bry648 wrote:I thought I saw picture a while back with a stormtroopers with a jet pack. I could easily see the guard having jet packs reversed for some there special forces. I could them using for raid attacks or getting to higher ground.

Are you referring to this picture:

Spoiler:

If so, they are using grav chute.

**Kanluwen**

Hunterindarkness wrote:They flew a few hundred meters if I recall, some more, some less. They could have used them longer but .!: the world had a bad atmo, and @: they were trying to be stealthy and did not wish to be targets. The range of the pack had nothing to do with ditching them, also you must recall those people using them had very, very little training with them and disliked using them anyhow.

They "flew a few hundred meters" after jumping out of Marauder bombers...
The majority of the "flying" was the descent. The sequences which are in the book make it clear that they were primarily focused upon controlling their descent, not reascending.

What ever they name the wearer had the power of flight and not just a few meters, they also hovered. Jump pack was as ill fitting name as "jet pack" naming aside they did just what a jet pack does.

They had the power of hovering, not necessarily flight. A Harrier jump jet hovers, but can perform some fairly advanced maneuvering utilizing the ducting fans that control its VTOL.

A "jump pack" falls into a broad category, while a jet pack is a rather specific one. A jet pack can be a jump pack, but not the other way around. A modified variant of a grav-chute can be a "jump pack".

**pretre**

Yeah, I think it is fair to say that neither Marines or guard have Jet Packs.

**Hunterindarkness**

Have to hunt it up put pretty sure they practiced "going up" , if I recall larkin disliked that. They mostly trained deciding but the back could go up.

**Kanluwen**

Of course it could go back up.

A Land Speeder can decrease/increase its altitude. Is that a "jet speeder"?

Gravity manipulating technology is actually not unknown in the Imperium.

**Hunterindarkness**

So they could fly..but can't fly because the name? They could go up,down, left,right and hover in place. Does it matter what they were called they had flight capability.

Look in the book they had a few weeks to learn to fly them a few hundred meters, land and not die while doing It. They had to fly out of the ships, at range, under cover and sneak up to the top of the structure.

The trainer could do all kinds of this with those packs, the incision team, not so much.

**Soladrin**

He's not saying they couldn't fly, he's saying they are not jet packs.

Jet packs and jump packs are not the same. Jetpack = jump pack, jump pack = any kind of kit that allows limited flight, regardless of tech involved.

In other words, he's nitpicking again.

**pretre**

Rawr.

We like to call it 'being exacting' or 'holding us to a higher standard'.

**Soladrin**

Or trolling xD

**Hunterindarkness**

Eh its a BL book, He is about as high as the standard gets. Game wise there may be no such beast but I am arguing the book, it which its pretty clear they have flight capability.

Now anyone who notices my books will no I do not like using BL stuff( even good stuff) as a canon argument. I would say Canon wise as of yet no Guard unit we know of has flight packs.

**pretre**

Soladrin wrote:Or trolling xD

**Kanluwen**

Hunterindarkness wrote:So they could fly..but can't fly because the name? They could go up,down, left,right and hover in place. Does it matter what they were called they had flight capability.

If you keep bringing up the idea that they had "flight capability"(which is what a jetpack has), then yeah it does matter.
The tech described is exactly the same as to how Forge World has described the grav-chutes the Elysians use.

Look in the book they had a few weeks to learn to fly them a few hundred meters, land and not die while doing It. They had to fly out of the ships, at range, under cover and sneak up to the top of the structure.

They did not "fly them a few hundred meters". They exited the aircraft at a "few hundred meters" up, with most of it being a descent and not activating the packs until they were much closer. The reason, it is important to remember, the incursion team used these Icarus packs is because they were infiltrating their target in the middle of a bombing raid so that they could get in undetected and to kill their target before the invasion proper.

The trainer could do all kinds of this with those packs, the incision team, not so much.

Yes, and that trainer is someone who intimately trained with the Icarus packs and on page 409 you see them using a jump tower which was 35 meters high.