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Anfauglir wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:They are a separate organization in terms of how they're deployed.

How does deployment method factor in here? Storm Troopers can and are known for being dropped in via Valkyrie... but they can also role in via Chimera, and vice versa for normal Guardsmen. They are ground troops, just like normal infantry, therefore they are deployed as part of the IG. They either operate alongside normal infantry on the front lines, or they are used behind enemy lines for more spec ops, but they are always deployed as part of larger ground operation, all working towards the same overarching battlefield objective (whatever that may be).

That's not the "deployment method" I'm talking about.

Their "deployment methods" that you're referring to are irrelevant. Inquisitors ride to battle in Chimeras or Valkyries, does that mean they are part of the Imperial Guard?
As another note:
Valkyries are operated and owned by the Imperial Navy, but attached to Guard Regiments for combat operations. Does that mean the Stormtroopers and Guardsmen deployed by them
belong to the Imperial Navy?

You should have kept reading to the second part you quoted before replying.

Stormtroopers are not part of the organic structure of a regiment--just like Commissars. They are assets which are attached to a regiment by a higher authority, usually to perform the tasks that special forces would engage in.

By what higher authority? The DM? If so, they are subject to the same hierarchy as the IG. If not, then I'd like to know because I've yet to read otherwise. The bolded part further supports the idea that the Storm Troopers are the IoM's special forces, in terms of infantry.

You'll notice that my original statement was not that "Stormtroopers are not special forces!". My statement was that "The Imperial Guard as a whole does not have special forces". Stormtroopers are not always deployed to these warzones. It's usually a case of warzones that they are brought into have what is effectively the "big boy" warzone setups, where things have gotten to the point that a company's worth of Stormtroopers is assigned to the warzone and spread throughout operations within that warzone. They then answer to no superior authority at a local level, much like modern special forces, and instead report to a higher command structure.

What this means is that the Imperial Guard, when deploying, does not regularly deploy with special forces. If they need troops to fulfill the role of special forces, they will primarily utilize veterans within that role. Those troops are not trained for it, but instead have acquired talents at those same kinds of operations.
If they are in an important enough warzone, they might in fact have Stormtroopers at hand--but the Regiment cannot necessarily request them right then and there.

Stormtroopers do not answer, necessarily, to the regiment's command structure but instead the command structure which sent them to serve alongside the regiment.

Again, being what? The DM?

Psienesis wrote:Well, sort of. The ST Regiment is a self-ruling organization, that seems to deploy its troops when and where it judges them best used.

Of course, the Space Marines themselves often function in the exact same way, and are most certainly not part of the IG or the Departmento Munitorum.

Right, that's the distinction, I feel. Astartes are a law unto themeselves, pretty much. However, as far as I'm aware each Segmentum has a Lord Commander who is in charge of all Imperial ground forces, with all other high ranking officers answering to him or her. The ST regiment doesn't outrank the DM, and seeing as all high posts are DM appointments, it stands to reason that they also appoint the high ranking officers of the ST regiment, too. Any deployed STs in a particular warzone/theatre/campaign will answer to that particular warzone/theatre/campaign's Supreme Commander, like all the other Guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:Their "deployment methods" that you're referring to are irrelevant.

I know, which I why I explained that they were. You failed to specify that what you were actually saying, is that ST elements aren't permenantly attached to specific Guard regiments for each and every engagement, and simply said "in the way they are deployed", which I took by its most direct and simplest meaning.

You'll notice that my original statement was not that "Stormtroopers are not special forces!". My statement was that "The Imperial Guard as a whole does not have special forces". Stormtroopers are not always deployed to these warzones. It's usually a case of warzones that they are brought into have what is effectively the "big boy" warzone setups, where things have gotten to the point that a company's worth of Stormtroopers is assigned to the warzone and spread throughout operations within that warzone. They then answer to no superior authority at a local level, much like modern special forces, and instead report to a higher command structure.

You're arguing semantics here. Your point seems to be that, because they are handled differently on an organisational level, they cannot be referred to the IG's special forces because the IG "haven't got any". That's like saying that the Army has no SF, because a nations armed forces are split for logistical reasons. 40K is a super simplified version of warfare in real life. The Imperium's primary ground force is the IG, who are commanded by the DM. The Imperium's primary human specialised armed force is the ST regiment, also commanded by the DM. Therefore, for all intents and purposes, the ST are the special forces of the 40K world. They fight alongside the IG and are the closest real life equivelant.

Yes and no. They answer usually to the same group which is responsible for controlling overall tactics within this warzone.

It's either yes or no, not both. The group you're referring to would be a branch of the highest Command group for that particular warzone, which are DM appointments, and usually IG officers. Like I said, for all intents and purposes, regular Guard and STs are part of a whole - the ground forces. Therefore it's perfectly reasonable and valid to think of the ST regiment as the IG's special forces, and not seperate them for no real reason whatsoever.

Edits were to fix an obnoxious quote tag issue.