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Assuming the Tau get around their problems with FTL (unlikely, but not impossible) and start aggressively expanding, and also assuming the Imperium doesn't do anything as they are too focused on Chaos and the Tyranids, to the point that the status quo in Ultima Segmentum starts to change, how would the Eldar react? Would they stand by and watch? Would they interfere against the Tau?

AFAIK, the Eldar has a couple of reasons to maintain the status quo and retaining Humans as their primary neighbors:
1) The Imperium knows what Chaos is and will fight it to the bitter end, regardless of the cost, whereas the Tau ignore Chaos and disdain it as an insane religion/superstition
2) While the Imperium is certainly expansive, they (the Imperium) also prefer to maintain the status quo with the Eldar, as both sides have nothing to gain and more to lose by fighting each other unless necessary, whereas the Tau would probably aggressively expand against the Eldar - attempting to colonize Maiden Worlds - not to mention they might actually try to attack the Craftworlds if the Eldar refuse to either leave or join the Tau Empire. Sure, the Craftworlds can just run through the Webway, but they can't stay there for long, and building up energy to do so takes time, as shown in Path of the Eldar.

Any thoughts while I prepare for the coming storm?

***ATTENTION ALL BROTHERS! ENEMIES APPROACHING! PREPARE FOR BATTLE!***

I agree, though Eldar aren't above letting the Tau attack human worlds, unless their interference will effect the fight against Chaos, they won't bother to do gak. And if the Tau decide to attack them the first thing they will do is try and manipulate the Imperium into intervening to help them out, or out right take the hit for them. Unless gak hits the fan big time (like a "real" dark crusade) they are fine with letting the Tau piss of the Imperium, most of the time they are too damn arrogant to see that the IoM is what holds the damn galaxy in relatively non destroyed state.
However if the Tau actually became that kind of annoyance I'm pretty sure the Imperium would annihilate them for the grater good of the galaxy .

To quote Kanluwen:

The Tau is as dangerous to the Imperium as a shark is to the Army.

The T'au are so small that even if they did get FTL drives, The Imperium (Or even Orks, if they found the T'au Colonies) would crush them in around 200-300 years.

The Eldar have some sort of need to protect the T'au, so a Craftworld or two would go help out if they needed to.

Offtopic but, daamn Chowderhead I love that signature, Joffrey getting smacked by Tirion brings a tear of joy to my eye.

Yori wrote:Offtopic but, daamn Chowderhead I love that signature, Joffrey getting smacked by Tirion brings a tear of joy to my eye.

Hah. Eminently satisfying to see the arrogant little tyke getting a good hiding.

The advantage of the Tau is in their potential. Of course they could be crushed if the Imperium wanted to risk looking away from Ork Waaghs and Tyranid Hivefleets for long enough to do it. But they won't. And so the Tau will continue to advance relatively unopposed.

Take for example the first time Tau encountered a Titan. They got their asses handed to them. But they thought about the problem, got some earth castes on the job and within an extremely short time, they had the Tiger Shark. Which is pretty damn effective at taking on titans.

I have no doubt that if the Tau ever saw the size of a true Imperial fleet, they'd lose a few planets, but would immediately start working on something to neutralize that advantage.
Whether or not the Eldar would appreciate this change is difficult to know.

Well someone is certainly looking out for the Tau. It's either the Big E or the Eldar, but they do have a guardian angel.

Tadashi wrote:Assuming the Tau get around their problems with FTL (unlikely, but not impossible) and start aggressively expanding, and also assuming the Imperium doesn't do anything as they are too focused on Chaos and the Tyranids, to the point that the status quo in Ultima Segmentum starts to change, how would the Eldar react? Would they stand by and watch? Would they interfere against the Tau?

3) the Eldar are too busy keeping an eye on the rising Necrons...
4) the Crons deem the T'au pretty annoying..
5) the Ultima Segmentum has soon some new dead worlds, brought to you by the undead of 40k.
6) Eldar got stuck in their visions like they were before the HH happened. Indecisive and too few to make a difference.

Tadashi wrote:
Any thoughts while I prepare for the coming storm?

Which storm?
The subject is soo fascinating, Dakkanauts already moved on to post about sig's instead.

jareddm wrote:The advantage of the Tau is in their potential. Of course they could be crushed if the Imperium wanted to risk looking away from Ork Waaghs and Tyranid Hivefleets for long enough to do it. But they won't. And so the Tau will continue to advance relatively unopposed.

Take for example the first time Tau encountered a Titan. They got their asses handed to them. But they thought about the problem, got some earth castes on the job and within an extremely short time, they had the Tiger Shark. Which is pretty damn effective at taking on titans.

I have no doubt that if the Tau ever saw the size of a true Imperial fleet, they'd lose a few planets, but would immediately start working on something to neutralize that advantage.
Whether or not the Eldar would appreciate this change is difficult to know.

If the tau ever managed to get a look at a large imperial fleet it would be during the crusade that destroys them. The tau may be able to create some tech that gives them an advantage but there is only so much xeno tech can do against billions of soldiers, lots of marine chapters, and full titan legions. If the imperium decides to launch a full scale crusade against the tau no innovation is going to save them.

1hadhq wrote:
3) the Eldar are too busy keeping an eye on the rising Necrons...

I think that's more Alaitoc, many of the other Craftworlds have "forgotten" their duty of keeping the Necrons in check.

Iranna.

Iranna wrote:

1hadhq wrote:
3) the Eldar are too busy keeping an eye on the rising Necrons...

I think that's more Alaitoc, many of the other Craftworlds have "forgotten" their duty of keeping the Necrons in check.

Iranna.

Wasn't all that retconn'd with the coming of newcrons anyway? Since the C'tan aren't awakening and stuff.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

Wasn't all that retconn'd with the coming of newcrons anyway? Since the C'tan aren't awakening and stuff.

Looking through the Necron codex, I'd say it's even more emphasised; every story involving eldar fighting Necrons have them pitted against Alaitoc. With Alaitoc always losing. Sigh.

Iranna.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

Iranna wrote:

1hadhq wrote:
3) the Eldar are too busy keeping an eye on the rising Necrons...

I think that's more Alaitoc, many of the other Craftworlds have "forgotten" their duty of keeping the Necrons in check.

Iranna.

Wasn't all that retconn'd with the coming of newcrons anyway? Since the C'tan aren't awakening and stuff.

If I recall correctly the newcrons have shattered and turned the yolk on there former masters (C'tan). as to weather this makes a difference in the eyes of the eldar who were created to fight the necrontyr (not the C'tan) i don't know

razor5647 wrote:If the tau ever managed to get a look at a large imperial fleet it would be during the crusade that destroys them. The tau may be able to create some tech that gives them an advantage but there is only so much xeno tech can do against billions of soldiers, lots of marine chapters, and full titan legions. If the imperium decides to launch a full scale crusade against the tau no innovation is going to save them.

You say that, but I don't see how the development of a good, large-scale EMP-esque weapon couldn't shut down Imperial ships before they reach orbit. Or at the very least, force a bottleneck. We have no way of knowing what the Tau will develop in the next 500 to 1,000 years, but the point is that other than the Orks, they're one of the only races that will develop. If the resourcefulness they've shown so far continues, they have some pretty high potential.

jareddm wrote:

razor5647 wrote:If the tau ever managed to get a look at a large imperial fleet it would be during the crusade that destroys them. The tau may be able to create some tech that gives them an advantage but there is only so much xeno tech can do against billions of soldiers, lots of marine chapters, and full titan legions. If the imperium decides to launch a full scale crusade against the tau no innovation is going to save them.

You say that, but I don't see how the development of a good, large-scale EMP-esque weapon couldn't shut down Imperial ships before they reach orbit. Or at the very least, force a bottleneck. We have no way of knowing what the Tau will develop in the next 500 to 1,000 years, but the point is that other than the Orks, they're one of the only races that will develop. If the resourcefulness they've shown so far continues, they have some pretty high potential.

I am not saying that tau innovation is not impressive and would defiantly make for one hell of a fight i'm saying that the fronts on crusades like this are 50 - 100 planets wide and its not just an imperial fleet its a battle fleet with hundreds of battleships carrying regiments of unlimited resources. assuming that an EMP weapon could disrupt imperial ships in the 41st millennium with advanced electronics and void shielding that leaves many more ships and regiments coming on many more planets. I am not saying that tau tech does not have the ability to help the tau I am saying the tau lack the resources to fight off a conflict of this magnitude.
At some point numbers and firepower simply become too much

The Eldar would do whatever their farseers deem will best preserve their race. They have no particular love or hatred for either race. And the farseers decisions are fairly unpredictable, as they base their decisions on forsight, not logical deduction based on circumstances. That is what makes them so unpredictable. They often make seemingly illogical decisions because they base their decisions on forknowledge.

And each craftworld is going to make very different decisions. You can't say what the "Eldar" will do, each craftworld will have different ideas on what the proper action is, and act accordingly.

So, prefacing it with that, and acknowledging that their decision making process is largely unpredictable, I will say that the way things in the Galaxy are now, I think the Eldar would likely prefer to maintain the status quo. The Imperium in not unified, stagnant, powerful, and large, the perfect defense against the Tyranids and Necrons. They are also unable to really coordinate attacks on the Eldar. A massive galactic war at this juncture would leave the Imperium and the Tau unable to act as bulwarks against the Tyranids and Necrons.

However, if the galaxy stabilized somewhat, and the external threats were no longer such a major concern, I think they would back the Tau. It would weaken the Imperium (which may now have the available resources to threaten the craftworlds) and split galactic power, keeping anyone from threatening the Eldar.

In the longer run I think they would actually prefer Tau dominance. They are naive and have not yet learned to distrust the Eldar, and are therefore easier to manipulate. They are young and not set in their ways, and thus able to be molded into the form the Eldar want them in. Finally, and most importantly, they are not psychically active. Removing humanity as the galaxies dominant force would greatly diminish the power of Chaos. And as the War in Heaven demonstrated, a psychically dormant race is at a severe disadvantage when facing a psychically mature one.

I very much imagine that GW will have the Tau face off against a real threat from Chaos in sixth edition, I wonder how that will go.

It makes sense that the eldar would want the tau to be in a more powerful position. The tau would likely be hugely more open to dialogue between the races than the imperium with all its xenophobia. The tau and eldar could actually coordinate on a non manipulative level where as the interactions with the impeium will rarely be anything but manipulative.

Iranna wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

Wasn't all that retconn'd with the coming of newcrons anyway? Since the C'tan aren't awakening and stuff.

Looking through the Necron codex, I'd say it's even more emphasised; every story involving eldar fighting Necrons have them pitted against Alaitoc. With Alaitoc always losing. Sigh.

Iranna.

Losing in a Newcron dex. Wait for the elven one...

I'd still like to "complete " the list, if this is going to focus on Eldar.
Eldar aren't too invested into the basic struggle of the races out there if this doesn't include any of them or is about an ancient foe.
Chaos on the rise or Necrons ( now Alaitoc only ) could interest a nearby Craftworld a bit. Tyranids too if they get to close since Iyanden has a lot of 're-called' Eldar now and it seems they prefer to keep the number of animated wargear ( wraith ) as low as possible. Orks are a pest, but I doubt orks infected Craftworlds successfully and on the Maiden worlds the Eldar have more 'settlers' to keep off than just orks.


Therefore the unlikely Tau expansion faces the dangers without the Eldar interfering because the Eldar got no option of a "win-win" situation.
If the Humans are driven back, a lot of the unwelcome may flood the Galaxy ( chaos , orks , nids , necrons ) and Tau aren't gonna stop any of those. Especially as all of them would move in at once. The Humans are the meatshield of the races of this Galaxy because they got the numbers to replace the inevitable casualties. Possibly more dead Eldar in the future.
If the Eldar intercept the Tau, the Tau wouldn't understand why and just ignore them until the Eldar have to stop them forcefully. The Tau are set on their course and with their record in making new friends they won't spot the difference between spiky pirate elfs who like slaves and bright colored elfs who consider you a tool. The Eldar have to invest time and Eldar lives and then it better saves a craftworld or two...
But expansions leave worlds weakened and sometimes greater threats wouldn't miss the chance and the Eldar aren't newbs.
They lived through the time when the old ones were gone and the C'tan went away ( old fluff = sleep , new fluff = splintered ). They lost their own empire too. A shift in the balance of power can swiftly start an uncontrollable fire. And Eldar like control very much.

I just know that Tau will have their hands full in the 42'nd millennium as small Ork infestation on their borders ( War of Dakka ) is threatening to became full scale Ork WARGHH the size of Armageddon one.
Necrons started to awakening and form their mini-empires in close proximity to Tau borders, that will not go well at all.
Tyranids are still active and Tau must learn new strategies if they want to survive next encounter ( they probably won't have Imeprium to save them again )

However, the Tau real problem would be some highly ambitious Imperial commander if he decide to seek fame and glory and form a true crusade army to attack the Tau. Solar did that same thing and in the end whole worlds came under his troops. Tau may push them back but only for so long as Tau don't have manpower to oppose the large number of Regiments someone may use agaisnt them.

Brother Coa wrote:I just know that Tau will have their hands full in the 42'nd millennium as small Ork infestation on their borders ( War of Dakka ) is threatening to became full scale Ork WARGHH the size of Armageddon one.
Necrons started to awakening and form their mini-empires in close proximity to Tau borders, that will not go well at all.
Tyranids are still active and Tau must learn new strategies if they want to survive next encounter ( they probably won't have Imeprium to save them again )

However, the Tau real problem would be some highly ambitious Imperial commander if he decide to seek fame and glory and form a true crusade army to attack the Tau. Solar did that same thing and in the end whole worlds came under his troops. Tau may push them back but only for so long as Tau don't have manpower to oppose the large number of Regiments someone may use agaisnt them.

I'm still kind of confused about where the war of daka takes place. At some points in the story, it seems to take place in the empire. Then at other times, it takes place in the farsight enclaves. I'm not sure which one it's meant to be

Nobody knows, we only know that for now it's Farsight alone who is battling them and that the Ork numbers are growing.

The Farsight info comes from codex Orks 4'th edition, I don't know for other version of the story.

The most hilarious thing about this whole story is that Orks actually looted Tau guns and are using them against Tau

Brother Coa wrote:Nobody knows, we only know that for now it's Farsight alone who is battling them and that the Ork numbers are growing.

The Farsight info comes from codex Orks 4'th edition, I don't know for other version of the story.

The most hilarious thing about this whole story is that Orks actually looted Tau guns and are using them against Tau

The whole thing is hilarious. After all they are orks.

"Kor'o Akb'ar, they've reached T'au! We can't retreat!"
The old Kor gritted his teeth, his attenuated face flushing a deeper blue gray. His eyes seemed to bulge, his voice gurgling slightly as he bristled at the situation. "We have no choice El'Kalriss'i'an!" he directed at the Manta commander. "Our fleet can't repel firepower of that magnitude!" O'Akb'ar, veteran of a thousand battles looked around at his displays, quickly calculating the amount of time he could spare to the small, hand picked task force sent to the verdant arborial satillite to destroy the enemy's shields. The Manta commander's channel chimed again urgently.
"El'Hana will get that shield down. You've got to give him more time!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Eldar would likely do nothing to curb Tau expansion unless the Tau are expanding towards a Maidenworld, or the Farseers uncover a fatethread that reveals certain actions the Tau are pursuing are dangerous. Depending on the Craftworld responding, Tau advancing towards a Maidenworld would result in war, diplomacy, or misdirection to have them settle elsewhere. If the Tau and Imperium butting heads might cause problems in one strand of fate somewhere down the line, the Eldar would interfere in the same way they do now: aiding whichever side will favor the Eldar at some unknowable future, and just as easily aiding the other side in the very next battle. Otherwise, they'll stay out of the way and let the lesser races solve their own problems.

Nagashek wrote:"Kor'o Akb'ar, they've reached T'au! We can't retreat!"
The old Kor gritted his teeth, his attenuated face flushing a deeper blue gray. His eyes seemed to bulge, his voice gurgling slightly as he bristled at the situation. "We have no choice El'Kalriss'i'an!" he directed at the Manta commander. "Our fleet can't repel firepower of that magnitude!" O'Akb'ar, veteran of a thousand battles looked around at his displays, quickly calculating the amount of time the small, hand picked task force sent to the verdant arborial satillite to destroy the enemy's shields. The Manta commander's channel chimed again urgently.
"El'Hana will get that shield down. You've got to give him more time!"

It's a trap!

On a serious note. You might wanna take a good read at the nid codex.. it has a good discription on a war between the tau and the nids.. a large war of constant evolution against each other. Think about it... what doesn't kill the tau only makes them stronger in terms in thinking up new ways to counter what was killing them in the first place.

Has anybody heard this rumour of the fluff change in 6th ed? Namely it "turns out" through new knowledge that the tau were a race known to the Emperor to be utterly immune to the forces of chaos and thus instructed the Astartes to defend them until it was "their time" to fight chaos.

That would certainly screw up opinions within the imperium and Eldar regarding the Tau.

I suppose it would give the Tau a more mysterious and important role than the one they have now, but I think it would link them to the Imperium a bit too much.

vodo40k wrote:Has anybody heard this rumour of the fluff change in 6th ed? Namely it "turns out" through new knowledge that the tau were a race known to the Emperor to be utterly immune to the forces of chaos and thus instructed the Astartes to defend them until it was "their time" to fight chaos.

That would certainly screw up opinions within the imperium and Eldar regarding the Tau.

The rumor ( if I heard correctly ) would not only screw opinions 'in universe' it also gets close to a head-shot of the background.

Sure, rewritten Tau aren't impossible. DE changed, Necrons Changed, so another change may happen, but , in this case it hits the general background of the setting. Add something we haven't heard, which is likely given chaos returns to glory, and you are looking at a different background where 40 k may just get a complete reboot...

There is a general lack of Tau vs Eldar (well Craftworld Eldar) incidents documented in the fluff. I think that the Eldar may be deliberately trying to avoid conflict with the Tau and the Tau seem to be happy with that.

There are theories about the origins of the Ethereals that point to the Eldar as a possible agent responsible. It is quite possible that the Eldar have a plan for the Tau and want the Tau to expand and prosper.

To be honest, the idea of Greater Good is something I would expect to come from the lips of a Farseer. The Eldar may not follow the Ethereals, but I can see the Tau feeling that they do adhere to the Greater Good and respecting their ways.

To be honest, I can see the Eldar and the Tau being willing and able to have what we would today consider normal diplomatic relations and be able to generally negotiate their conflicts to resolution. Not allies or even friends necessarily, but willing to talk rather than fight.

razor5647 wrote:

jareddm wrote:The advantage of the Tau is in their potential. Of course they could be crushed if the Imperium wanted to risk looking away from Ork Waaghs and Tyranid Hivefleets for long enough to do it. But they won't. And so the Tau will continue to advance relatively unopposed.

Take for example the first time Tau encountered a Titan. They got their asses handed to them. But they thought about the problem, got some earth castes on the job and within an extremely short time, they had the Tiger Shark. Which is pretty damn effective at taking on titans.

I have no doubt that if the Tau ever saw the size of a true Imperial fleet, they'd lose a few planets, but would immediately start working on something to neutralize that advantage.
Whether or not the Eldar would appreciate this change is difficult to know.

If the tau ever managed to get a look at a large imperial fleet it would be during the crusade that destroys them. The tau may be able to create some tech that gives them an advantage but there is only so much xeno tech can do against billions of soldiers, lots of marine chapters, and full titan legions. If the imperium decides to launch a full scale crusade against the tau no innovation is going to save them.

Most of that stuff is currently busy with barely keeping the decaying Imperium together. It is also untrue that the Tau Empire never had to face a large crusade, it faced a part of the huge Achilus Crusade and apparently survived. How the Eldar stand to the Tau is not quite known. Eldrad seemed to like them for some reason, what other Farseers think is unknown.