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I'll disagree, the Imperium does have the resources to crush the Tau, or any other one faction. But that's it. They do that, they leave themselves wide open to utter destruction from every other faction. Thus out of self preservation, the Imperium cannot crush any one significant faction. It would be suicide.

Anfauglir wrote:

Tadashi wrote:You want to launch a Crusade into the Eye of Terror or even into the Warp to eliminate Chaos? Be my guest. You want to leave the galaxy and preemptively engage the Tyranids far from the Imperial homeland? Go right ahead. You want to burn the Craftworlds, who unlike the Tau don't subvert Imperial planets? Right...not gonna happen. And trying to exterminate the Orks would be an exercise in futility. I'm better off talking to the wall. You keep missing the point - the only reason the Tau haven't faced a real Crusade is because the Imperium won't approve it since it's not worth it not because they can't do it.

Replace Tyranids with Tau and you have the exact same situation. I've bolded the points I've been making over and over. Not approving a mass invasion on the grounds that it would also bring about the agressor's own destruction is tantamount to not being able to do it. Yes, technically they have the means, but in all other senses they don't, because they are operating within rules of self-preservation (see metaphor).

I never said it wouldn't cost the Imperium, but if they needed to they can do it.

But if they did, so many Astartes would have had assured victory.

Pure conjecture on your part. If Damocles is any indication, the forces which re-took Angura wouldn't make much of a dent in an Empire which is now vastly larger and stronger than it was during their first war with the Imperium.

Right and the part about the Tau not having a chance against so many Space Marines is untrue, I suppose. I send Space Marines in large numbers, and the Tau would crumble.

Once they become a threat, the Imperium will stop at nothing to burn them to ashes.

Then why, prey tell, haven't they managed to burn any of their other threats to ashes? Hmm? They're just not trying, I guess? Maybe they just don't regard any of the other factions a significant threat, then... No, what tosh. They're already stopping at nothing to keep the enemy back, fighting with their all against the myriad forces of destruction waiting to tear them apart. Once again: Too. Many. Wolves (see metaphor).

Normal troops would last only seconds before losing their minds within the Eye of Terror. Fighting the Tyranids on their terms is insane. Assaulting Craftworlds that doesn't act against the Imperium on a regular basis is stupid. Trying to exterminate the Dark Eldar and the Orks would be an exercise in futility. The Tau are just a frontier threat for now. Necrons are still disunited and an offensive against them would be counter-productive.

but the Imperium has more than enough resources to do so.

They simply do not. They would perish themselves. If they could, they would. It takes all the resources they have to stay alive and in control of what territory they have (see metaphor).

Tadashi wrote:I never said it wouldn't cost the Imperium, but if they needed to they can do it.

Not without leaving themselves open to be destroyed from other threats, which is out of the question, so no they couldn't. It's not a question of "need", it's a question of simply having the means, and they do not.

Right and the part about the Tau not having a chance against so many Space Marines is untrue, I suppose. I send Space Marines in large numbers, and the Tau would crumble.

You send the amount of Marines it would take in order to wipe out the Tau, and the Imperium crumbles. The cost is too high, they cannot do it.

Normal troops would last only seconds before losing their minds within the Eye of Terror. Fighting the Tyranids on their terms is insane. Assaulting Craftworlds that doesn't act against the Imperium on a regular basis is stupid. Trying to exterminate the Dark Eldar and the Orks would be an exercise in futility. The Tau are just a frontier threat for now. Necrons are still disunited and an offensive against them would be counter-productive.

So, in other words, there's too many threats from too many directions for the IoM to sufficiently act against any single one of them. When faced in combination, each one requires more resources than the Imperium can spare in order to make any further progress in destroying them. Thanks for finally allowing that to sink in.

See above.

^

The only way they could do it and be safe is if they shrink their empire to one of more manageable size. But humans aren't creatures so willing to give up territory.

Anfauglir wrote:

So, in other words, there's too many threats from too many directions for the IoM to sufficiently act against any single one of them. When faced in combination, each one requires more resources than the Imperium can spare in order to make any further progress in destroying them. Thanks for finally allowing that to sink in.

Pretty much. The Imperium would burn the galaxy to ashes, but it would be a pyrrhic victory at best. At worst, the entire galaxy is left completely lifeless. Well, I'm fine with that - if we can't have the galaxy, then no one can.

The Imperium would go down hard, true, but there would definitely still be life, I do not believe that the Imperium has what it takes to wage a true War in Heaven

King Pariah wrote:The Imperium would go down hard, true, but there would definitely still be life, I do not believe that the Imperium has what it takes to wage a true War in Heaven

Sorry about that, what I meant was every current civilization would go down with the Imperium. The Orks, and maybe the Necrons might survive, but that assumes the fall of the Imperium doesn't turn two-thirds of the galaxy into a new and massive Eye of Terror. If that's not the case, oh well, I suppose the only ones who survive are the ones who submit to the gods of Chaos. And any Eldar and others who could escape to the remaining third of the galaxy outside of Imperial control before the Imperium implodes reality.

King Pariah wrote:The only way they could do it and be safe is if they shrink their empire to one of more manageable size. But humans aren't creatures so willing to give up territory.

Do you really think that will work? They would have to give up a lot of places like forgeworlds (Or other planets). Places that aren't easy to get back if they can get them back at all. Give up a planet to the nids, your not getting it back.

nomotog wrote:

King Pariah wrote:The only way they could do it and be safe is if they shrink their empire to one of more manageable size. But humans aren't creatures so willing to give up territory.

Do you really think that will work? They would have to give up a lot of places like forgeworlds (Or other planets). Places that aren't easy to get back if they can get them back at all. Give up a planet to the nids, your not getting it back.

Yeah, I know that. That's why the Imperium, hell humans in general, would never do it. Humans... become too attached to things generally, once they have something they never want to let it go. But hell, if they gave up the worlds on the fringes of their empire, everywhere there wasn't a truly established presence, dug in around and at vital points in the empire, then pulled the classic spear and shield tactic, they could have a strong chance at building up extermination crusades which they could send out and slaughter large portions, if not the entire, of the populations of other species while they continue to build up a pretty much insurmountable defensive line.

King Pariah wrote:

nomotog wrote:

King Pariah wrote:The only way they could do it and be safe is if they shrink their empire to one of more manageable size. But humans aren't creatures so willing to give up territory.

Do you really think that will work? They would have to give up a lot of places like forgeworlds (Or other planets). Places that aren't easy to get back if they can get them back at all. Give up a planet to the nids, your not getting it back.

Yeah, I know that. That's why the Imperium, hell humans in general, would never do it. Humans... become too attached to things generally, once they have something they never want to let it go. But hell, if they gave up the worlds on the fringes of their empire, everywhere there wasn't a truly established presence, dug in around and at vital points in the empire, then pulled the classic spear and shield tactic, they could have a strong chance at building up extermination crusades which they could send out and slaughter large portions, if not the entire, of the populations of other species while they continue to build up a pretty much insurmountable defensive line.

The Iron Warriors, both the traitors and the loyalist survivors (if any are left alive) would disagree. All fortresses fall sooner or later.

Tadashi wrote:

King Pariah wrote:

nomotog wrote:

King Pariah wrote:The only way they could do it and be safe is if they shrink their empire to one of more manageable size. But humans aren't creatures so willing to give up territory.

Do you really think that will work? They would have to give up a lot of places like forgeworlds (Or other planets). Places that aren't easy to get back if they can get them back at all. Give up a planet to the nids, your not getting it back.

Yeah, I know that. That's why the Imperium, hell humans in general, would never do it. Humans... become too attached to things generally, once they have something they never want to let it go. But hell, if they gave up the worlds on the fringes of their empire, everywhere there wasn't a truly established presence, dug in around and at vital points in the empire, then pulled the classic spear and shield tactic, they could have a strong chance at building up extermination crusades which they could send out and slaughter large portions, if not the entire, of the populations of other species while they continue to build up a pretty much insurmountable defensive line.

The Iron Warriors, both the traitors and the loyalist survivors (if any are left alive) would disagree. All fortresses fall sooner or later.

A force that is solely defensive? absolutely. But that's not what I'm talking about.