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KingDeath wrote:It is also untrue that the Tau Empire never had to face a large crusade, it faced a part of the huge Achilus Crusade and apparently survived.

That was just several Tau border world ( lowly populated ) instead of the entire Empire. And they were largely facing Tyranids then Imperials.
Achilus Crusade was primary against Chaos corruption in the sector as well as several Daemon Worlds.

The crusade is still going, but it's a stalemate between Imperials/Chaos and Tyranids/Tau.

Jefffar wrote:
There is a general lack of Tau vs Eldar (well Craftworld Eldar) incidents documented in the fluff.

In the 3rd ed tau codex there was a story about a ranger patrol who were taken completely by surprise by an ambush of kroot and eaten. That's the only tau v. eldar fluff I can think of off the top of my head but there is some is out there.

I can't imagine the Eldar would be that against Tau expansion, unless they touched a Maiden World, then I assume they would come down on them like a ton of the proverbial.

Of course if the Demiurg are around they might bring in the old elves v dwarves cliche in the fluff.

razor5647 wrote:If the tau ever managed to get a look at a large imperial fleet it would be during the crusade that destroys them. The tau may be able to create some tech that gives them an advantage but there is only so much xeno tech can do against billions of soldiers, lots of marine chapters, and full titan legions. If the imperium decides to launch a full scale crusade against the tau no innovation is going to save them.

Which is a pretty moot point, seeing as the IoM couldn't possibly hope to launch a Crusade big enough to wipe the Tau Empire from the stars with how thin they are spread. The Tau don't need to be a major threat to the Imperium, on the contrary, being beneath the radar while all the bigger boys duke it out can and will only aid them while they further establish themselves.

Well new Ally Matrix has the Eldar, Space Marines and Tau as good friends . . . so I'd say any incidents between those blocks will be minor in scope in 6th Ed.

More dakka, that's the way to beat any xenos

Anfauglir wrote:

razor5647 wrote:If the tau ever managed to get a look at a large imperial fleet it would be during the crusade that destroys them. The tau may be able to create some tech that gives them an advantage but there is only so much xeno tech can do against billions of soldiers, lots of marine chapters, and full titan legions. If the imperium decides to launch a full scale crusade against the tau no innovation is going to save them.

Which is a pretty moot point, seeing as the IoM couldn't possibly hope to launch a Crusade big enough to wipe the Tau Empire from the stars with how thin they are spread. The Tau don't need to be a major threat to the Imperium, on the contrary, being beneath the radar while all the bigger boys duke it out can and will only aid them while they further establish themselves.

And what will they do when the gods turn their attention on the Tau?

Actually I find the lack of Tau expansion to be fairly bull. They have a species that's highly in tune with the Warp as an ally (The Nicassar) and the tech available to make actual warp jumps from the wrecked Imperium colonization ships they eventually found (from which they eventually made their Warp Skimming space faring technology AFTER they reconstructed a Warp Drive which only failed because they couldn't navigate the Warp then). I really believe the Tau should be able to currently move around at a comparable speed to the Imperium.

King Pariah wrote:. I really believe the Tau should be able to currently move around at a comparable speed to the Imperium.

Actually, doing so would get them bumped up to the top of the Imperium's threat lists, not to mention that of the Dark Powers. And I don't imagine the Necrons would be happy either. A new, progressive, power rising in the galaxy? The Necrons seek to rebuild their ancient empire - the only ones they'd allow to live are the ones who submit. If the Tau get new FTL, the Imperium, the Forces of Chaos, and the Necrons are going to come down like the Wrath of Heaven.

And before anyone says the Tau aren't affected by the warp or are ignored by daemons - Tau CAN and DO get affected by psychic powers/sorcery - they just don't have a 'bright' profile in the Warp. And just like the Imperial Truth before it, the spread of the Greater Good will attract the attention of the Dark Powers sufficiently so as to actually halt the Great Game like during the Horus Heresy; their targets aren't the Tau, but their subject races.

Also they will be too dependent on the Nicassar who don't know gak about, unlike the Imperiuim which haves strong relations with the Navis Nobilite despite it not being an official part of it.
The last time the tau meddled with the warp (Medusa V) the earth caste there went insane, besides for their smaller scale their traveling techniques are more than sufficient. They don't have the people to populate a big amount of newer worlds or to keep them in their control even if they somehow manage to pry them off the way those little fish that stick to sharks eat the food in between the shark's teeth.

Tadashi wrote:And what will they do when the gods turn their attention on the Tau?

Umm, the same thing all the other races do? I need a more specific scenario if you want a more specific response...

Anfauglir wrote:

Tadashi wrote:And what will they do when the gods turn their attention on the Tau?

Umm, the same thing all the other races do? I need a more specific scenario if you want a more specific response...

Let's see...with the Tau begin to spread explosively across the galaxy, the Greater Good reaches a threat equal to that of the Imperial Truth - the Great Game is suspended once again, and the Four Powers unite as one, targeting the more receptive subject races of the Tau, disrupting the Tau Empire from within. As the Empire crumbles from within, the vengeful Imperium takes advantage and drives the weakened Tau and their tainted former subjects in a bloody path of destruction out of the Astronomican's area.

Tadashi wrote:Let's see...with the Tau begin to spread explosively across the galaxy, the Greater Good reaches a threat equal to that of the Imperial Truth - the Great Game is suspended once again, and the Four Powers unite as one, targeting the more receptive subject races of the Tau, disrupting the Tau Empire from within. As the Empire crumbles from within, the vengeful Imperium takes advantage and drives the weakened Tau and their tainted former subjects in a bloody path of destruction out of the Astronomican's area.

So, your proposal is that, once the Tau grow past a certain threshold, everything going down on the other side of the galaxy just... stops. Then, Chaos (?) exclusively target the Tau, followed by the Imperium, wiping them from the stars. Yeah... no. Moot point once again. The eternal state of the galaxy will never allow that to happen. If and when the Tau ever reach that threshold to suddenly threaten the IoM on such a scale, their response will be; "oh ****, look what happened over there while we weren't looking... now it's too late to act effectively against them even if we did have the means (which we don't)".

Anfauglir wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Let's see...with the Tau begin to spread explosively across the galaxy, the Greater Good reaches a threat equal to that of the Imperial Truth - the Great Game is suspended once again, and the Four Powers unite as one, targeting the more receptive subject races of the Tau, disrupting the Tau Empire from within. As the Empire crumbles from within, the vengeful Imperium takes advantage and drives the weakened Tau and their tainted former subjects in a bloody path of destruction out of the Astronomican's area.

So, your proposal is that, once the Tau grow past a certain threshold, everything going down on the other side of the galaxy just... stops. Then, Chaos (?) exclusively target the Tau, followed by the Imperium, wiping them from the stars. Yeah... no. Moot point once again. The eternal state of the galaxy will never allow that to happen. If and when the Tau ever reach that threshold to suddenly threaten the IoM on such a scale, their response will be; "oh ****, look what happened over there while we weren't looking... now it's too late to act effectively against them even if we did have the means (which we don't)".

What do you mean it's too late? Billions of Guardsmen and entire Chapters and Titan Legions marching to meet the Tau along with entire Battlefleets, not to mention the Inquisition priming entire fleets with cyclonic torpedoes and virus bombs - not to mention radicals making deals with Chaos warbands and Dark Eldar pirates - the Tau aren't gonna stand a chance. Not to mention the irritated gods pulling open reality at the rear of the Tau Empire once their committed against the Imperium to allow daemons and such to feast on the of the Tau Empire.

Tadashi wrote:What do you mean it's too late? Billions of Guardsmen and entire Chapters and Titan Legions marching to meet the Tau along with entire Battlefleets, not to mention the Inquisition priming entire fleets with cyclonic torpedoes and virus bombs - not to mention radicals making deals with Chaos warbands and Dark Eldar pirates - the Tau aren't gonna stand a chance. Not to mention the irritated gods pulling open reality at the rear of the Tau Empire once their committed against the Imperium to allow daemons and such to feast on the of the Tau Empire.

I'll repeat; the only way the Imperium will be able to level the amount of military might needed to sufficiently and permanently destroy the Tau is if it abandons several of its other fronts. Meaning? The other threats baying and circling descend upon and tear apart the already overextended and fragile defensive line holding the IoM together. Let's try a visual metaphor.

There is a Great Bear. The Bear is very large and very powerful. However, the Bear is surrounded by several Wolves. The number of Wolves block any avenue of escape for the Bear. What's more, the Bear's movement is additionally hindered by its own Shadow, which grapples and claws at its feet, preventing the Bear from focusing fully on the Wolves. The Wolves periodically rush the Bear, snapping and snarling as they place superfluous wounds on the great beast. The Bear swings it's powerful paws at them, batting them away, but unable to follow through with lethal strikes. Some of the Wolves scrap among themselves, allowing the Bear some much needed respite. Also, some of the Wolves also get ensnared by the Great Bear's Shadow. The Bear notices another Wolf, a tan coloured one, lingering on the outskirts of the pack. This is neither the largest or most threatening of the Wolves, and it too scraps among some of the others. The Bear, whilst it could easily kill any of these Wolves on their own, including the tan one at the back, cannot attempt any such action. For example, if the Bear were to suddenly make a break for the tan Wolf, whilst the immense power of its paws and jaw would crush the lesser beast, all the other Wolves and the Bear's own Shadow would dive on the Bear's back, bring it to the ground, and finally land several mortal blows upon it.

This is the state of the 40k 'verse, and is why the IoM can never hope to wipe out the Tau. There are simply too many Wolves.

Anfauglir wrote:
There is a Great Bear. The Bear is very large and very powerful. However, the Bear is surrounded by several Wolves. The number of Wolves block any avenue of escape for the Bear. What's more, the Bear's movement is additionally hindered by its own Shadow, which grapples and claws at its feet, preventing the Bear from focusing fully on the Wolves. The Wolves periodically rush the Bear, snapping and snarling as they place superfluous wounds on the great beast. The Bear swings it's powerful paws at them, batting them away, but unable to follow through with lethal strikes. Some of the Wolves scrap among themselves, allowing the Bear some much needed respite. Also, some of the Wolves also get ensnared by the Great Bear's Shadow. The Bear notices another Wolf, a tan coloured one, lingering on the outskirts of the pack. This is neither the largest or most threatening of the Wolves, and it too scraps among some of the others. The Bear, whilst it could easily kill any of these Wolves on their own, including the tan one at the back, cannot attempt any such action. For example, if the Bear were to suddenly make a break for the tan Wolf, whilst the immense power of its paws and jaw would crush the lesser beast, all the other Wolves and the Bear's own Shadow would dive on the Bear's back, bring it to the ground, and finally land several mortal blows upon it.

That was so poetic and beautiful .

Anfauglir wrote:

I'll repeat; the only way the Imperium will be able to level the amount of military might needed to sufficiently and permanently destroy the Tau is if it abandons several of its other fronts. Meaning? The other threats baying and circling descend upon and tear apart the already overextended and fragile defensive line holding the IoM together.

Sorry but the way the IoM had more important buisness wasn't because it couldn't do it but the usual plot armor of a young race .

Plus, where has the "royal rumble" situation of this eternal war its place in your visualization?
Methinks some people like this idea of overextended lines too much. When every faction is a possible threat to each other, there is no room for this singular aim at the IoM.

1hadhq wrote:Sorry but the way the IoM had more important buisness wasn't because it couldn't do it but the usual plot armor of a young race.

Plus, where has the "royal rumble" situation of this eternal war its place in your visualization?
Methinks some people like this idea of overextended lines too much. When every faction is a possible threat to each other, there is no room for this singular aim at the IoM.

Not entirely sure what it is you're saying here, but I'll reply by reiterating (yet again) that the IoM is simply facing too many threats on too many fronts to appropriately address the (comparatively far away and minor) threat of the Tau, whether you choose to interpret that as "plot armour" or not. That's the simple fact of the galactic situation. If that's the case, then each and every race has the exact same plot armour, as the perpetual stalemate between each and every faction is what keeps GW's wargaming setting, a wargaming setting.

Melissia wrote:I very much imagine that GW will have the Tau face off against a real threat from Chaos in sixth edition, I wonder how that will go.

Well they did have the tau meet the Dark Eldar in the 5th ed DE codex so...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As far as the Eldar vs Tau go, the Eldar don't care about the Tau unless they try to 'add' a colony or exodite world to their Empire, whereupon Craftworld Eldar show up to kick them off and teach them the error of their ways. I don't think it would take many times of that happening to teach the Tau not to mess with the Eldar directly. Which, knowing the Tau, means they'll try sneakier ways to conquer them. The Tau are persistant, at the very least.

as far as Imperium vs Tau go, I wouldn't bank on any massive invasion in the near future (and not just becaues of the out of universe status quo.) The tau are way out on the fringes of the Astronomican's range (which is already flickering, apparently), and the DG region itself is some gigantic bit of warp turbulence that makes travel dangerous (at least going by Andy Hoare's novels.) Add the Tyranid problem to the equation and the possibility of invasion (amassing and supporting the effort required) is going to be time consuming and problematic. While the Tau have a very secure base of operations from which to expand and attack from (not impervious, but very hard to hit effectively.)

That said, I would also point out that the humanity the Tau faces is basically all from the easternmost edge of the Imperium, which is basically saying the military forces out on the boonies. Add to that that Segmentum Ultima isn't neccesarily as high end (at least as far as Naval forces go, but probably Guard) as the other Segmentum (from the Fire Warrior novel) and that's going to skew tau perceptions of Imperial capabilities (which has happened on more than one occasion, either to what they can do, how big they are, or how many of them there are.) Consider Necromunda for example and the capabilities of your average Hive Ganger. Now imagine those forces amassed into the Guard and unleashed on the Tau. I'm not sure the tech disparity would be as bad in that case.

I would say it is not so much that the Imperium couldn't take out the Tau, hell as it is right now almost any race could stand to take out one of the others under the right circumstances, and with a little bit of luck. The problem lies in the cost of it. One of the coolest things about the 40k universe at the moment is that every race is on edge, its almost like europe prior to a world war, except w/out any nation being allied to one another.
So as I was saying the Imperium could take out the currently flourishing Tau empire, but the cost would be to high at the moment. Same with the Eldar. The Imperium could take out the Eldar, or Chaos, or ork threat, etc etc, but they can't b/c of the universes current standing. No one can afford to go in on another race fully w/out the threat of being wiped out at the same time. Except for orks, they can always afford to throw in everything at once lol It is just best to sit back and wait for the right moment to strike. That is what the Tau and Eldar are currently doing, striking where it is suitable. So the Imperium lets a few planets go here or there. Better to lose those planets than turn to much attention away from the Eye of sauron, and give them the chance to wipe out Cadia or worse. I say the Imperium should turn all of its attention to taking out the forces of chaos, while only worrying about defending against nids and orks. After the chaos threat is gone they can deal with the other minor threats, who may even turn out to be valuable allies/servants. Hey eldar psychers, wanna meet the Emperor in person? :p

If the tau ever managed to get a look at a large imperial fleet it would be during the crusade that destroys them. The tau may be able to create some tech that gives them an advantage but there is only so much xeno tech can do against billions of soldiers, lots of marine chapters, and full titan legions. If the imperium decides to launch a full scale crusade against the tau no innovation is going to save them.

1hadhq wrote:

Sorry but the way the IoM had more important buisness wasn't because it couldn't do it but the usual plot armor of a young race .

My point exactly. Their plot armor is basically the fact that the Imperium considers them a frontier threat. If they cease to become one, the Imperium (and other factions) won't just sit by and watch those upstarts get uppity. The Humans are to the Tau as the Eldar are to the Humans. And it's not like the Imperium doesn't launch Crusades on a regular basis. If they really need to, they can find the resources needed to launch a full-on Crusade (not like the Damocles 'Crusade') and either wipe the Tau from the galaxy or show them their place.

darkcloud92 wrote:I would say it is not so much that the Imperium couldn't take out the Tau, hell as it is right now almost any race could stand to take out one of the others under the right circumstances, and with a little bit of luck. The problem lies in the cost of it.

So as I was saying the Imperium could take out the currently flourishing Tau empire, but the cost would be to high at the moment.

Precisely.

Tadashi wrote:My point exactly. Their plot armor is basically the fact that the Imperium considers them a frontier threat.

No, their plot armour is exactly the same as everybody else's. Any one faction would take the first chance to remove one of the others. Some, if the opportunity presented itself, would even gang up on another if it meant they were permanently removed from the board. The fact is, each and every one of them are too busy fighing everybody else, and it's this perpetual stalemate which prevents a lot of the race's said permanent destruction. It's as simple as that.

If they cease to become one, the Imperium (and other factions) won't just sit by and watch those upstarts get uppity.

Which they haven't. The Tau have come into conflict with multiple galactic powers on multiple occasions due to their rapid evolution and expansion. They have fought the Tau with whatever forces are available without compromising their already strained galactic standing, for reasons that have been (extensively) explained.

And it's not like the Imperium doesn't launch Crusades on a regular basis. If they really need to, they can find the resources needed to launch a full-on Crusade (not like the Damocles 'Crusade') and either wipe the Tau from the galaxy or show them their place.

Which is complete bull. Saying "if they really need to" is tantamount to saying they already have the capacity to wipe out the Tau... yet have refrained from doing so... because? Because what? They can't be bothered? They just don't feel like it at the moment? No, what nonsense. The can't without destroying themselves too, or they would have done it already. Simple as that.

Anfauglir wrote:

Which is complete bull. Saying "if they really need to" is tantamount to saying they already have the capacity to wipe out the Tau... yet have refrained from doing so... because? Because what? They can't be bothered? They just don't feel like it at the moment? No, what nonsense. The can't without destroying themselves too, or they would have done it already. Simple as that.

They don't feel the need to because the Tau are a frontier threat. It's called prioritizing. If the Tau cease to be one, then the Tau get priority. At which point, it's game over for those fish-faced xenos.

I don't think the Imperium could really make the Tau a priority. The Imperium faces waaaaaay too many threats to call any one species a priority (chaos may be the only one that they could all a priority target considering how much beef they have with each other). Would they send a decent sized Crusade? Sure. But the Tau I believe have proved their mettle to a fair extent as seen both the Damocles and Nimbosa Crusades as well as the Taros Campaign. I have no doubt that the Imperium's Crusading force would be able to inflict truly severe losses, however, I do think the Tau would be able to beat off the force.

Also, when seeing other species commanding larger empires than the Tau (one insectoid species comes to mind who seem to "infest" a decent sized chunk of the western fringe of the galaxy) that the Imperium hardly pay any attention to; it's really hard to believe that if the Tau were able to double or even triple the size of their empire that the Imperium would actually send in a force dedicated to their extermination.

Tadashi wrote:They don't feel the need to because the Tau are a frontier threat. It's called prioritizing. If the Tau cease to be one, then the Tau get priority. At which point, it's game over for those fish-faced xenos.

No it isn't. Even if the Tau gain priority, the IoM simply don't have the means to erradicate them. If they had the means to march aross to the other side of the galaxy and wipe the Tau out... then why haven't they done so with their current, much closer priority threats? Hmm? Face it, in order for the Imperium to be able to move sufficiently against the Tau, they will first have to all but neutralise threats from at least Chaos, Tyranids and Orks. This isn't going to happen. Neither is the Tau rising to become the primary threat over these others... and if it were the case that they did become that powerful, it would be too late like I said. If the Tau ever surpassed every other faction as a threat to the IoM, then there is even less hope of the Imperium defeating them. Which brings us right back to the beginning of our debate: it's a moot point. Neither is ever going to happen. Period.

King Pariah wrote:I don't think the Imperium could really make the Tau a priority. The Imperium faces waaaaaay too many threats to call any one species a priority (chaos may be the only one that they could all a priority target considering how much beef they have with each other).

Also, when seeing other species commanding larger empires than the Tau (one insectoid species comes to mind who seem to "infest" a decent sized chunk of the western fringe of the galaxy) that the Imperium hardly pay any attention to; it's really hard to believe that if the Tau were able to double or even triple the size of their empire that the Imperium would actually send in a force dedicated to their extermination.

Bingo.

Anfauglir wrote:

Not entirely sure what it is you're saying here, but I'll reply by reiterating (yet again) that the IoM is simply facing too many threats on too many fronts to appropriately address the (comparatively far away and minor) threat of the Tau, whether you choose to interpret that as "plot armour" or not. That's the simple fact of the galactic situation. If that's the case, then each and every race has the exact same plot armour, as the perpetual stalemate between each and every faction is what keeps GW's wargaming setting, a wargaming setting.

Anfauglir wrote:

No, their plot armour is exactly the same as everybody else's. Any one faction would take the first chance to remove one of the others. Some, if the opportunity presented itself, would even gang up on another if it meant they were permanently removed from the board. The fact is, each and every one of them are too busy fighing everybody else, and it's this perpetual stalemate which prevents a lot of the race's said permanent destruction. It's as simple as that.

Underlined the important bit.
So we can agree that no one is getting "squatted" but GW still could if they want to?

Because the point is, everyone is aware of all of the 'codified' factions now and the new guys are no longer flying under the radar. Makes a
1 vs 1 situation unlikely and the strain isn't just on the IoM.

Anfauglir wrote:
Which is complete bull. Saying "if they really need to" is tantamount to saying they already have the capacity to wipe out the Tau... yet have refrained from doing so... because? Because what? They can't be bothered? They just don't feel like it at the moment? No, what nonsense. The can't without destroying themselves too, or they would have done it already. Simple as that.

sure they can. But they being GW . The IoM can or cannot whatever they deem useful at the time any background is published.
Its unneccessary to get rid of the Tau ( yet ) so no one is aiming at them in the background at a scale that they can't survive.
Whenever the expansion becomes to easy / unbelievable, the means to end it will be added to the background and GW may or may not use the IoM to do it. So no, selfdestruction isn't going to happen.

Anfauglir wrote:

Tadashi wrote:They don't feel the need to because the Tau are a frontier threat. It's called prioritizing. If the Tau cease to be one, then the Tau get priority. At which point, it's game over for those fish-faced xenos.

No it isn't. Even if the Tau gain priority, the IoM simply don't have the means to erradicate them. If they had the means to march aross to the other side of the galaxy and wipe the Tau out... then why haven't they done so with their current, much closer priority threats? Hmm? Face it, in order for the Imperium to be able to move sufficiently against the Tau, they will first have to all but neutralise threats from at least Chaos, Tyranids and Orks. This isn't going to happen. Neither is the Tau rising to become the primary threat over these others... and if it were the case that they did become that powerful, it would be too late like I said. If the Tau ever surpassed every other faction as a threat to the IoM, then there is even less hope of the Imperium defeating them. Which brings us right back to the beginning of our debate: it's a moot point. Neither is ever going to happen. Period.

You want to launch a Crusade into the Eye of Terror or even into the Warp to eliminate Chaos? Be my guest. You want to leave the galaxy and preemptively engage the Tyranids far from the Imperial homeland? Go right ahead. You want to burn the Craftworlds, who unlike the Tau don't subvert Imperial planets? Right...not gonna happen. And trying to exterminate the Orks would be an exercise in futility. I'm better off talking to the wall. You keep missing the point - the only reason the Tau haven't faced a real Crusade is because the Imperium won't approve it since it's not worth it, not because they can't do it. At the end of the Zeist Campaign the Astartes were prepared to and willing to launch an assault on the Tau homeland - they were simply told not to because the Imperium had better uses for the Astartes elsewhere. But if they did, so many Astartes would have had assured victory. Once they become a threat, the Imperium will stop at nothing to burn them to ashes. A real Crusade would be a bloodbath to be sure, but the Imperium has more than enough resources to do so.

Tadashi wrote:

Anfauglir wrote:

Tadashi wrote:They don't feel the need to because the Tau are a frontier threat. It's called prioritizing. If the Tau cease to be one, then the Tau get priority. At which point, it's game over for those fish-faced xenos.

No it isn't. Even if the Tau gain priority, the IoM simply don't have the means to erradicate them. If they had the means to march aross to the other side of the galaxy and wipe the Tau out... then why haven't they done so with their current, much closer priority threats? Hmm? Face it, in order for the Imperium to be able to move sufficiently against the Tau, they will first have to all but neutralise threats from at least Chaos, Tyranids and Orks. This isn't going to happen. Neither is the Tau rising to become the primary threat over these others... and if it were the case that they did become that powerful, it would be too late like I said. If the Tau ever surpassed every other faction as a threat to the IoM, then there is even less hope of the Imperium defeating them. Which brings us right back to the beginning of our debate: it's a moot point. Neither is ever going to happen. Period.

You want to launch a Crusade into the Eye of Terror or even into the Warp to eliminate Chaos? Be my guest. You want to leave the galaxy and preemptively engage the Tyranids far from the Imperial homeland? Go right ahead. You want to burn the Craftworlds, who unlike the Tau don't subvert Imperial planets? Right...not gonna happen. And trying to exterminate the Orks would be an exercise in futility. I'm better off talking to the wall. You keep missing the point - the only reason the Tau haven't faced a real Crusade is because the Imperium won't approve it since it's not worth it, not because they can't do it. At the end of the Zeist Campaign the Astartes were prepared to and willing to launch an assault on the Tau homeland - they were simply told not to because the Imperium had better uses for the Astartes elsewhere. But if they did, so many Astartes would have had assured victory. Once they become a threat, the Imperium will stop at nothing to burn them to ashes. A real Crusade would be a bloodbath to be sure, but the Imperium has more than enough resources to do so.

That's what I said, they could do it but it is not worth it :/ But why not launch a crusade into the eye? That might lead to some lotr scenario where the eldar do something useful for once and help out. There was an alliance b/t humans and eldar against chaos in one of the early gaunt's ghosts novels

1hadhq wrote: sure they can. But they being GW . The IoM can or cannot whatever they deem useful at the time any background is published.
Its unneccessary to get rid of the Tau ( yet ) so no one is aiming at them in the background at a scale that they can't survive.
Whenever the expansion becomes to easy / unbelievable, the means to end it will be added to the background and GW may or may not use the IoM to do it. So no, selfdestruction isn't going to happen.

Isn't going to happen. I can't see GW killing off any of the playable factions anytime soon... as in, like ever. If and when their expansion becomes too easy/unbelievable, then they'll have a rumble with one or more of the other factions to curtail it back into the realm it needs to be in: perpetual stalemate (like the Zeist Campaign, for instance).

Tadashi wrote:You want to launch a Crusade into the Eye of Terror or even into the Warp to eliminate Chaos? Be my guest. You want to leave the galaxy and preemptively engage the Tyranids far from the Imperial homeland? Go right ahead. You want to burn the Craftworlds, who unlike the Tau don't subvert Imperial planets? Right...not gonna happen. And trying to exterminate the Orks would be an exercise in futility. I'm better off talking to the wall. You keep missing the point - the only reason the Tau haven't faced a real Crusade is because the Imperium won't approve it since it's not worth it not because they can't do it.

Replace Tyranids with Tau and you have the exact same situation. I've bolded the points I've been making over and over. Not approving a mass invasion on the grounds that it would also bring about the agressor's own destruction is tantamount to not being able to do it. Yes, technically they have the means, but in all other senses they don't, because they are operating within rules of self-preservation (see metaphor).

At the end of the Zeist Campaign the Astartes were prepared to and willing to launch an assault on the Tau homeland - they were simply told not to because the Imperium had better uses for the Astartes elsewhere.

Hmm, sorry but Angura was simply the staging post for the Tau's attempted expansion into Imperial space, likely on the edges of their territory and nowhere near the Tau homeland. They were prepared to make a "thrust" into Tau space in retaliation... not launch a genocidal campaign of total and permenant destruction of the Tau Empire. Finally, it wasn't that the Imperium "had better uses elsewhere", it was that they were desperately needed elsewhere for other, more dangerous threats at the time (like Leviathan, Maelstrom and Abbadon).

But if they did, so many Astartes would have had assured victory.

Pure conjecture on your part. If Damocles is any indication, the forces which re-took Angura wouldn't make much of a dent in an Empire which is now vastly larger and stronger than it was during their first war with the Imperium.

Once they become a threat, the Imperium will stop at nothing to burn them to ashes.

Then why, prey tell, haven't they managed to burn any of their other threats to ashes? Hmm? They're just not trying, I guess? Maybe they just don't regard any of the other factions a significant threat, then... No, what tosh. They're already stopping at nothing to keep the enemy back, fighting with their all against the myriad forces of destruction waiting to tear them apart. Once again: Too. Many. Wolves (see metaphor).

but the Imperium has more than enough resources to do so.

They simply do not. They would perish themselves. If they could, they would. It takes all the resources they have to stay alive and in control of what territory they have (see metaphor).