Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Exactly what it sounds like. Between the Forces of Chaos, the Tyranid Swarms, the Ork WAAAHG!s, and the awakening Necrons, all the big guns in the Imperium don't seem to be enough. How, in the big picture, can the Imperium possibly hope to survive?

Only if the alien races and traitors kill eachother before they can destroy Mankind.

As has been discussed many times before: it probably can't. Sooner or later, the Imperium will start collapsing under its own weight, if it isn't already doing so in the 41st millennium. The biggest threat to mankind is itself.

Hm. In retrospect, I should have assumed it'd already been talked about.

What about resurrecting the Emperor? I can only imagine that'd have SOME kind of impact.

The question is not "How can we win?" It's "How can we lose?" We have the unstoppable Angels of Death, plus countless of the Galaxy's finest soldiers. Mankind cannot fail it is our destiny.

Paid for by the Imperial Propaganda Committee

The Imperium of Man will purge the galaxy of all injustice and continue our existence and if failing that, go down banner held high and a chainsword in hand, till the last.

FOR THE IMPERIUM OF MAN!

By making (temporary) allies with the Orks and then after all other threats are managable,




crump them too!

Bloody Adair wrote: By making (temporary) allies with the Orks and then after all other threats are managable,




crump them too!

Actually, that may work. Convince all the Ork clans/tribes/warbands, or at least a large portion of them, that by aligning themselves with the Imperium, they will have as much conflict and warfare as possible.

There is one flaw. Orks naturally congregate in WAAAGH!s. How do you keep them from going one, massive, united WAAAAGH! once they've outlived their usefulness?

The Imperium of Man is the largest most powerful force in the galaxy and it survived half of it turning on the other in the HH, also NO ONE beats the Imperial forces in war of attrition, and that is exactly what it will take to bring IoM down.
How can we win? Easy get on the defensive and let the heretics and xenos commit suicide by charging into the mighty defenders of the rightful rulers of the galaxy.
FOR THE EMPEROR EVER ONWARD!!!

Yori wrote:The Imperium of Man is the largest most powerful force in the galaxy and it survived half of it turning on the other in the HH, also NO ONE beats the Imperial forces in war of attrition, and that is exactly what it will take to bring IoM down.
How can we win? Easy get on the defensive and let the heretics and xenos commit suicide by charging into the mighty defenders of the rightful rulers of the galaxy.
FOR THE EMPEROR EVER ONWARD!!!

Riiiight...

Orks, Nids... Crons, when they fully awaken, Daemons, considering much of that half is still out there, and more and more have turned over the ages...

Have I missed anyone?

TermiesInARaider wrote:

Yori wrote:The Imperium of Man is the largest most powerful force in the galaxy and it survived half of it turning on the other in the HH, also NO ONE beats the Imperial forces in war of attrition, and that is exactly what it will take to bring IoM down.
How can we win? Easy get on the defensive and let the heretics and xenos commit suicide by charging into the mighty defenders of the rightful rulers of the galaxy.
FOR THE EMPEROR EVER ONWARD!!!

Riiiight...

Orks, Nids... Crons, when they fully awaken, Daemons, considering much of that half is still out there, and more and more have turned over the ages...

Have I missed anyone?

A lot of stuff, but don't worry we can handle this gak. I mean its been 40 thousand years of it and humanity has done fine (at least in the majority which is over 500 trillion). Worse case scenario every one gets armed and joins the fight, who the feth is gonna go after 500 trillion screaming fanatics armed with... well EVERYTHING they can get their hands on.

Easy. By starting to use the only resource that's of any real value in interstellar warfare.
Brainpower. Of course, with independent thought and any kind of progress in technology pretty much outlawed that'd require some sort of social restructuring of the Imperium - a Renaissance of ideological and scientific progress. Why, that's completely unheard of in the history of Mankind...

(cue The Normandy Reborn theme)
The Emperor Reborn - who's going to stand against the Imperium? No one! With the Emperor at our head, no one, not space bugs, not space communists, not magic mushrooms, not even space undead can stop us! Even space elves will bow before us!

***Ave Renatus Imperator!***

^^^
So true, so awesome!!!

Tadashi wrote:

(cue The Normandy Reborn theme)
The Emperor Reborn - who's going to stand against the Imperium? No one! With the Emperor at our head, no one, not space bugs, not space communists, not magic mushrooms, not even space undead can stop us! Even space elves will bow before us!

***Ave Renatus Imperator!***

Magic mushrooms, huh?

TermiesInARaider wrote:
Magic mushrooms, huh?

I'm in a patriotic mood - normally I'm more respectful to other Old One descended/created races like Orks and Eldar.

Space communists/blue-skinned fish faces - not so much. Except for Farsight - HE IS AWESOME! Not as much as the Emperor and the Primarchs. No else one comes close.



(cue Imperial March from Star Wars)
Take that, space popes!

Tadashi wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:
Magic mushrooms, huh?

I'm in a patriotic mood - normally I'm more respectful to other Old One descended/created races like Orks and Eldar.

Space communists/blue-skinned fish faces - not so much. Except for Farsight - HE IS AWESOME! Not as much as the Emperor and the Primarchs. No else one comes close.



(cue Imperial March from Star Wars)
Take that, space popes!

Well, Farsight hasn't royally fethed up yet, AFAIK. For all of their Superman posterboy, the-very-best-humanity-has-to-offer-image, the Primarchs, and the Emprah as well, IMO, all had their share of gaffs and blunders, but that's a topic for another thread.

How about some kind of superweapon, such as the one presented in the Space Marine game? Granted, what it ended up as was far from how it was designed, but if I recall, the guy actually got the technology to work before he was possessed.

For those who still plan on playing the game, I have spoiler-buttoned the details of that tech:



If the 'umies could pull something like that out of their bums, I think that'd be their closest shot at victory.

Efficiency, discipline, hard work.
The Anglo-Saxon way

Joey wrote:Efficiency, discipline, hard work.
The Anglo-Saxon way

If... I didn't know better, that sounded vaguely prejudiced. :/ Please, try to stay on topic.

Ever heard of the story of Pandora's box? Remembering who you are and what your past is made of is important. History is important because it defines us. We are worth something not because of material power, intelligence, or simply because you and I exist. We survive not only because of instinct, but because our ancestors have made sacrifices, they have fought nature, disease, and against each other so that their descendants will have their rightful places in this world. And out of all this capability for violence, and harshness, we not only thrived, but out of this, heroes were made.

Notice how young people always gravitate towards heroes? Why do they do that? Not just because they look and sound awesome. It is entirely within the realm of possibility that they can grow up to be heroes. We give our young this hope so that one day, they too can have even the slightest measure of our past. Out of our young is our future, and we sacrifice for them just like our fathers and mothers have sacrificed for us. And with them, new heroes are made.

We should not give in to hopelessness. It is our greatest ally. We owe it to our ancestors to survive, to live, and fight for survival another day. And that is why even in a science fiction game like 40k, humanity fights on. But don't forget that just because this is what they do in warhammer, that it doesn't apply to reality. After all, where else did those guys at GW get it from?

TermiesInARaider wrote:

How about some kind of superweapon, such as the one presented in the Space Marine game? Granted, what it ended up as was far from how it was designed, but if I recall, the guy actually got the technology to work before he was possessed.

For those who still plan on playing the game, I have spoiler-buttoned the details of that tech:

Spoiler:

IIRC, he managed to create a device that could cause the heads of assorted xenos species to explode with an effective radius encompassing an entire planet.

If the 'umies could pull something like that out of their bums, I think that'd be their closest shot at victory.

The Emperor has one: the Imperial Webway. 'Course, He'll have to start from scratch again, but if the Imperium gains access to the Webway, the balance of power switches drastically. Imagine: the vast fleets and numerous soldiers of the Imperium arriving on time where they're needed. ***Where are your Ethereals now, Tau?***

LumenPraebeo wrote:Ever heard of the story of Pandora's box? Remembering who you are and what your past is made of is important. History is important because it defines us. We are worth something not because of material power, intelligence, or simply because you and I exist. We survive not only because of instinct, but because our ancestors have made sacrifices, they have fought nature, disease, and against each other so that their descendants will have their rightful places in this world. And out of all this capability for violence, and harshness, we not only thrived, but out of this, heroes were made.

Notice how young people always gravitate towards heroes? Why do they do that? Not just because they look and sound awesome. It is entirely within the realm of possibility that they can grow up to be heroes. We give our young this hope so that one day, they too can have even the slightest measure of our past. Out of our young is our future, and we sacrifice for them just like our fathers and mothers have sacrificed for us. And with them, new heroes are made.

We should not give in to hopelessness. It is our greatest ally. We owe it to our ancestors to survive, to live, and fight for survival another day. And that is why even in a science fiction game like 40k, humanity fights on. But don't forget that just because this is what they do in warhammer, that it doesn't apply to reality. After all, where else did those guys at GW get it from?

Hm. Noted. I always thought of 40k as a comentary on utilitarianism. In modern society, genocide is a horrible, hated act, and instantly conjures thoughts of the very worst of humanity, the most evil, heartless people to walk this earth. Yet, in the 41st millennium, it's more than a virtue; exterminatus is a NECESSITY. Without it, untold horrors would have long ago consumed mankind.

It makes me think; how far is a civilization willing to go when the goal is simple survival? Can you even call it a civilization anymore? In terms of the vast, vast majority of humans, things like art, culture, and the normal trappings of a civilization are meaningless. There is religion, yes, but even cave men had that. To me, when I think of the Imperium, I think them most alike to the Tyranids. Trillions upon untold trillions of near-meaningless units, working towards a singular goal of survival.

So, Lumen, I'd say you're right, but you haven't seen the full picture. 40k is humanity magnified. It presents us at the very greatest of what we can accomplish, the amazing feats of strength, courage, and ability that only the most trying times can conjure. But it also shows our worst, the terrible, horrible deeds and creations humanity can spawn when the conditions are correct.

LumenPraebeo wrote:Ever heard of the story of Pandora's box? Remembering who you are and what your past is made of is important. History is important because it defines us. We are worth something not because of material power, intelligence, or simply because you and I exist. We survive not only because of instinct, but because our ancestors have made sacrifices, they have fought nature, disease, and against each other so that their descendants will have their rightful places in this world. And out of all this capability for violence, and harshness, we not only thrived, but out of this, heroes were made.

Notice how young people always gravitate towards heroes? Why do they do that? Not just because they look and sound awesome. It is entirely within the realm of possibility that they can grow up to be heroes. We give our young this hope so that one day, they too can have even the slightest measure of our past. Out of our young is our future, and we sacrifice for them just like our fathers and mothers have sacrificed for us. And with them, new heroes are made.

We should not give in to hopelessness. It is our greatest ally. We owe it to our ancestors to survive, to live, and fight for survival another day. And that is why even in a science fiction game like 40k, humanity fights on. But don't forget that just because this is what they do in warhammer, that it doesn't apply to reality. After all, where else did those guys at GW get it from?

Dark Angel, you have won this Blood Raven's respect and admiration. EXALTED!

Remember the true meaning of the Imperial Eagle every Imperial wears on their armor, from the chestplates of the mighty Adeptus Astartes, to the flak armor of the proud Imperial Guard; not the double-headed empire of the Administratum and the Adeptus Mechanicus, but we, the Human race, looking back to our distant past and the lessons and traditions inherited from our ancestors and fallen heroes, and looking forward to the glorious future our Emperor has foreseen and prepares for us.

***GLORY TO THE EMPEROR! GLORY TO THE IMPERIUM! GLORY TO THE HUMAN RACE!***

TermiesInARaider wrote: In modern society, genocide is a horrible, hated act, and instantly conjures thoughts of the very worst of humanity, the most evil, heartless people to walk this earth. Yet, in the 41st millennium, it's more than a virtue; exterminatus is a NECESSITY. Without it, untold horrors would have long ago consumed mankind.

Not completely. I've talked to my Japanese grandmother, who lived through WWII as a child. She told me that while she and her generation will never forgive America for what they did, the nevertheless accept that it had to be done. That's why she always tells me never forget who I am - I may be a half-blood, but all the same, never forget who I am. We owe it to everyone who died in those last days of the war.

If we could just hold the lines and hope to the emperor that the orks NEVER unite as one waagh,the necrons wake late and the hive fleets scattered, The emperor may save us all and resurrect... If only though...

Tadashi wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote: In modern society, genocide is a horrible, hated act, and instantly conjures thoughts of the very worst of humanity, the most evil, heartless people to walk this earth. Yet, in the 41st millennium, it's more than a virtue; exterminatus is a NECESSITY. Without it, untold horrors would have long ago consumed mankind.

Not completely. I've talked to my Japanese grandmother, who lived through WWII as a child. She told me that while she and her generation will never forgive America for what they did, the nevertheless accept that it had to be done. That's why she always tells me never forget who I am - I may be a half-blood, but all the same, never forget who I am. We owe it to everyone who died in those last days of the war.

TermiesInARaider wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote: In modern society, genocide is a horrible, hated act, and instantly conjures thoughts of the very worst of humanity, the most evil, heartless people to walk this earth. Yet, in the 41st millennium, it's more than a virtue; exterminatus is a NECESSITY. Without it, untold horrors would have long ago consumed mankind.

Not completely. I've talked to my Japanese grandmother, who lived through WWII as a child. She told me that while she and her generation will never forgive America for what they did, the nevertheless accept that it had to be done. That's why she always tells me never forget who I am - I may be a half-blood, but all the same, never forget who I am. We owe it to everyone who died in those last days of the war.

One could say we come from a similar place; my grandfather was on Okinawa when Hiroshima was bombed, and he had similar feelings. Things are not always simple. But that leads to my point. In the 41st millennium, they have to be. It's the only way we'd survive. My grandfather, and your grandmother, would likely be shot by their Commissars for saying such things.

Yeah, that's true. She hates Tojo and his fellow ultra-nationalists - they turned the noble Japanese Empire into a monstrosity and ultimately led to its downfall. Don't get her wrong, though, she is a nationalist. She (and has influenced me into the same way of thinking) believes that while Japan should remain an ally of America, we should take a dominant military role in the Far East proportionate to our dominant economy - similar to the British, who are the dominant power in Europe. Rebuilding the giant empire of WWII would be a mistake - it was a catastrophic mistake to build it in the beginning - but Japan should take its place. As the richest nation in the Far East, we have a responsibility - especially now that America's power is waning due to economic troubles, social problems at home, squabbles in the Middle East among others, no disrespect intended, of course.

As for 40k, yes, probably someplace deep down in an Inquisitor's soul, something screams out against everything they do. But they have to do it, for who else can? They take on the burden that would otherwise destroy everything. That's why radicals are such a disgrace. They are no better than what they claim to fight against.

Redacted due to repeated complaints.-Mannahnin

Joey wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:

Joey wrote:Efficiency, discipline, hard work.
The Anglo-Saxon way

If... I didn't know better, that sounded vaguely prejudiced. :/ Please, try to stay on topic.

If you regard working hard and being efficient as "prejudiced" then I pity your culture.

I was more refering to the Anglo-Saxon way, bit. I know plenty of hard working and efficient people. Anglo-saxon is a descriptor that isn't really relevant. :/

TermiesInARaider wrote:

Joey wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:

Joey wrote:Efficiency, discipline, hard work.
The Anglo-Saxon way

If... I didn't know better, that sounded vaguely prejudiced. :/ Please, try to stay on topic.

If you regard working hard and being efficient as "prejudiced" then I pity your culture.

I was more refering to the Anglo-Saxon way, bit. I know plenty of hard working and efficient people. Anglo-saxon is a descriptor that isn't really relevant. :/

*looks at GDP/capita of Anglo-Saxon countries*
*looks at GDP/capita of non Anglo-Saxon countries*
Yeah I stand by what I said. Some people work harder and more effectively than others. You're being dense in order to make me look like a racist.

Joey wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:

Joey wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:

Joey wrote:Efficiency, discipline, hard work.
The Anglo-Saxon way

If... I didn't know better, that sounded vaguely prejudiced. :/ Please, try to stay on topic.

If you regard working hard and being efficient as "prejudiced" then I pity your culture.

I was more refering to the Anglo-Saxon way, bit. I know plenty of hard working and efficient people. Anglo-saxon is a descriptor that isn't really relevant. :/

*looks at GDP/capita of Anglo-Saxon countries*
*looks at GDP/capita of non Anglo-Saxon countries*
Yeah I stand by what I said. Some people work harder and more effectively than others. You're being dense in order to make me look like a racist.

Let's see... Israel. Japan. Germany. France. Spain. Anyone I'm missing? Oh, right. The good ol' USA. Lost a bit of her luster, sure, but she's still the most powerful cultural, political, military, and economic force on the planet earth. Built from immigrants since her inception, continuing to this day, as it was designed to be.

Again, please. Stay on topic. Global economics has nothing to do with how the Imperium of Man would ever defeat it's many enemies.