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(cue The Normandy Reborn theme)
The Emperor Reborn - who's going to stand against the Imperium? No one! With the Emperor at our head, no one, not space bugs, not space communists, not magic mushrooms, not even space undead can stop us! Even space elves will bow before us!

Tadashi wrote:

(cue The Normandy Reborn theme)
The Emperor Reborn - who's going to stand against the Imperium? No one! With the Emperor at our head, no one, not space bugs, not space communists, not magic mushrooms, not even space undead can stop us! Even space elves will bow before us!

***Ave Renatus Imperator!***

This is a common misconception. The Emperor isn't some IWIN-button. He isn't some giant killing machine that eradicates armies by sneezing. Look at the Great Crusade, did Mankind forge their empire because of the Emperor alone? No, he organized the thing, the Space Marines did the actual fighting. At that time, almost all the xenos was around too (except Necrons, Tyranids and Tau), and they didn't simply die off because they looked at him, and the Eldar certainly didn't bow. He also got essentially killed by a Primarch, who certainly are mighty, but not as powerful as the Emperor.

Point is, the Emperor being reborn would do nothing to make the Imperium win. More likely it would create a religious schism, dividing the Imperium, which would send them crashing to their doom.

The Imperium is doomed to fail and be destroyed. No empire lasts forever, and the whole point of Warhammer 40k is supposed to be humanity's grand, slow last stand against it's enemies.

Marzillius wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

(cue The Normandy Reborn theme)
The Emperor Reborn - who's going to stand against the Imperium? No one! With the Emperor at our head, no one, not space bugs, not space communists, not magic mushrooms, not even space undead can stop us! Even space elves will bow before us!

***Ave Renatus Imperator!***

This is a common misconception. The Emperor isn't some IWIN-button. He isn't some giant killing machine that eradicates armies by sneezing. Look at the Great Crusade, did Mankind forge their empire because of the Emperor alone? No, he organized the thing, the Space Marines did the actual fighting. At that time, almost all the xenos was around too (except Necrons, Tyranids and Tau), and they didn't simply die off because they looked at him, and the Eldar certainly didn't bow. He also got essentially killed by a Primarch, who certainly are mighty, but not as powerful as the Emperor.

Point is, the Emperor being reborn would do nothing to make the Imperium win. More likely it would create a religious schism, dividing the Imperium, which would send them crashing to their doom.

The Imperium is doomed to fail and be destroyed. No empire lasts forever, and the whole point of Warhammer 40k is supposed to be humanity's grand, slow last stand against it's enemies.

If so, let me respond with this quote from Grey Knights: Hammer of Daemons:

"We are young and blind. We are weak flesh and fools. Perhaps someday we will be gone, but we burn so bright, that the galaxy, which has forgotten much, will never forget us.

Tadashi wrote:

Marzillius wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

(cue The Normandy Reborn theme)
The Emperor Reborn - who's going to stand against the Imperium? No one! With the Emperor at our head, no one, not space bugs, not space communists, not magic mushrooms, not even space undead can stop us! Even space elves will bow before us!

***Ave Renatus Imperator!***

This is a common misconception. The Emperor isn't some IWIN-button. He isn't some giant killing machine that eradicates armies by sneezing. Look at the Great Crusade, did Mankind forge their empire because of the Emperor alone? No, he organized the thing, the Space Marines did the actual fighting. At that time, almost all the xenos was around too (except Necrons, Tyranids and Tau), and they didn't simply die off because they looked at him, and the Eldar certainly didn't bow. He also got essentially killed by a Primarch, who certainly are mighty, but not as powerful as the Emperor.

Point is, the Emperor being reborn would do nothing to make the Imperium win. More likely it would create a religious schism, dividing the Imperium, which would send them crashing to their doom.

The Imperium is doomed to fail and be destroyed. No empire lasts forever, and the whole point of Warhammer 40k is supposed to be humanity's grand, slow last stand against it's enemies.

If so, let me respond with this quote from Grey Knights: Hammer of Daemons:

"We are young and blind. We are weak flesh and fools. Perhaps someday we will be gone, but we burn so bright, that the galaxy, which has forgotten much, will never forget us.

Thanks for proving my point.

Marzillius wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Marzillius wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

(cue The Normandy Reborn theme)
The Emperor Reborn - who's going to stand against the Imperium? No one! With the Emperor at our head, no one, not space bugs, not space communists, not magic mushrooms, not even space undead can stop us! Even space elves will bow before us!

***Ave Renatus Imperator!***

This is a common misconception. The Emperor isn't some IWIN-button. He isn't some giant killing machine that eradicates armies by sneezing. Look at the Great Crusade, did Mankind forge their empire because of the Emperor alone? No, he organized the thing, the Space Marines did the actual fighting. At that time, almost all the xenos was around too (except Necrons, Tyranids and Tau), and they didn't simply die off because they looked at him, and the Eldar certainly didn't bow. He also got essentially killed by a Primarch, who certainly are mighty, but not as powerful as the Emperor.

Point is, the Emperor being reborn would do nothing to make the Imperium win. More likely it would create a religious schism, dividing the Imperium, which would send them crashing to their doom.

The Imperium is doomed to fail and be destroyed. No empire lasts forever, and the whole point of Warhammer 40k is supposed to be humanity's grand, slow last stand against it's enemies.

If so, let me respond with this quote from Grey Knights: Hammer of Daemons:

"We are young and blind. We are weak flesh and fools. Perhaps someday we will be gone, but we burn so bright, that the galaxy, which has forgotten much, will never forget us.

Thanks for proving my point.

Don't mention it.

A central theme to 40k is that humanity cannot win. Or at least it was prior to 6th edition.

Humanity reached into the stars, had its golden years, fell to infighting, and now does its best to merely hold the enemy at bay, while losing ground. They're surrounded by alien empires who want nothing more (for their own various reasons) than the destruction of the Imperium, and assailed form within by mutants, witches and the daemonic. Basically the fiction is set up as a freeze frame of a knockout blow to a defeated humanity, but won't land.

Recently that vision has been blurred with some of the ridiculous fluff that's come out of Ward and, to a lesser extend, Cruddace. While their fluff would fit in a fiction set up with humanity on the rise in its glory days, it really contrasts to the main concepts.

Basically - it depends on where they take them fluff. If they go in the original direction, no, humanity can't win, because they're not supposed to. If they keep going in the direction of Ward has been writing, they probably can through the super human efforts of the smallest fighting force humanity has ever used, but will feel shoehorned in.

There is no hope for the IoM. It has to deal with countless Orks, the forces of Chaos and the crafty Eldar. The IoM could probably deal with those threats but when all the Necron Tomb worlds wake up or the main body on the Nid fleet show up (or both Gak!) they would be overwhelmed. Best they could do is take as many with them as possible.

The Orks on the otherhand, will be ok. They all just have to know their roles and get behind Ghaz. Galaxy wide Waaagh anyone?

I would be vary interested in the outcome of a galactic Waaagh on the nids. They might find themselfs losing ground for the first time since whatever is chasing them showed up.

Ledabot wrote:I would be vary interested in the outcome of a galactic Waaagh on the nids. They might find themselfs losing ground for the first time since whatever is chasing them showed up.

Octarius shows otherwise...

Bloody stalemate IIRC

That said, that's not every ork in the galaxy vs every nid that's coming.

It's all local orks vs one tendril.

You could see it as a microcosm of the final result though

They have the Ultramarines! We will crush all evildoers and win!!!

Start with the High Lords then, and work outwards

IOM isn't exactly Good Lawful Evil would be closer

Ascalam wrote:Start with the High Lords then, and work outwards

IOM isn't exactly Good Lawful Evil would be closer

More like Lawful Not-As-Evil-As-Some-Of-Those-Other-Fethers.

Still makes them evil though , just less so than some of those other fethers

Ascalam wrote:
IOM isn't exactly Good Lawful Evil would be closer

Lawful Neutral most of the time, sometimes Lawful Good, rarely Lawful Evil, but always Lawful IMO.

Actually i can't really think of any incidence of the IOM being Good. Protecting humanity, yes, but casually sanctioned genocide and xenocide are definitely heading into evil territory like a lead baloon. Keeping your citizenry in crushing ignorance, and execting those that step out of line.. not so good..

Any regime whose primary dictate it to wipe out all non-human life for territory due to 'divine right' or 'manifest destiny' isn't Good, even if they think of themselves as such.

YMMV of course, but the IOm has all the hallmarks of a despotic, uncaring and oppressive regime. Granted it's the best humanity can manage, and it may be necessary, but Good it aint.

LN i might accede to, but with definite Evil tendencies in the name of expediency and pride.

Ascalam wrote:Actually i can't really think of any incidence of the IOM being Good. Protecting humanity, yes, but casually sanctioned genocide and xenocide are definitely heading into evil territory like a lead baloon. Keeping your citizenry in crushing ignorance, and execting those that step out of line.. not so good..

Any regime whose primary dictate it to wipe out all non-human life for territory due to 'divine right' or 'manifest destiny' isn't Good, even if they think of themselves as such.

YMMV of course, but the IOm has all the hallmarks of a despotic, uncaring and oppressive regime. Granted it's the best humanity can manage, and it may be necessary, but Good it aint.

LN i might accede to, but with definite Evil tendencies in the name of expediency and pride.

The Imperium, the Eldar, the Tau and, the Necrons: Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil
Chaos and the Dark Eldar: Neutral Evil/Chaotic Evil
The Tyranids and the Orks: True Neutral/Chaotic Neutral

Fixed!
No one is good in 40k.

No-one is Good in 40K.

Wouldn't have it any other way, in this game..

I don't understand all this talk of humanity being doomed, maybe the Imperium just because the throne is failling but humanity is still the most numerous species in the milky way.

Nope

That would be the Orks or the Nids.

ZSO SAHALL wrote:I don't understand all this talk of humanity being doomed, maybe the Imperium just because the throne is failling but humanity is still the most numerous species in the milky way.

O.o Not even close. Orks are the most numerous species native to the galaxy and Nids also outnumber the Imperium easily. And who knows how many daemons can potentially be spawned?

Ascalam wrote:Nope

That would be the Orks or the Nids.

This will change when we win.

Our victory - their doom. Just keep the doom but turn the tables..
Page 116 is all I say.

Do the tyranids really have more? Sure, they've got their hive fleets with trillions of organisms. And they've got their splinters which make more.

But we breed like rabbits and there are countless worlds under mankind's control, most containing a couple billion, the hive worlds significantly more.

Also, all the Hive Fleets are in a constant state of war, so their numbers are constantly dwindling... there are some that are repleneshing by feeding but the majority is facing resistance and just about everything wants to destroy them.

1hadhq wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Nope

That would be the Orks or the Nids.

This will change when we win.

Our victory - their doom. Just keep the doom but turn the tables..
Page 116 is all I say.

My BT would agree with you

The rest of my armies (those not driven by blind, unquestioning faith in the Emperor and insane bigotry ) are more partial to the last section on Pg 104.