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The Imperium is too large to protect itself at the moment. It needs to consolidate it's population and resources.

In other words take ti's toys and go home, pull as much of it's population and military into as small a space as it can and still survive. Le the rest wither (or in areas where the Tyranids are expanding, just exterminus the hell out of it). Let the rest of the galaxy kill each other for a while and wait out the storm behind the best defences that can be built.

Once the storm has broken, then expand again, but do it logically and in a sustainable fashion. Make each new world/system a net gain in resources first, then move on to the next one.

You're missing the point. This is a universe where the darker powers lurk everywhere, where they're intrinsically bound to human nature. There is no 'victory', there is no end to the conflict possible. The Imperium can only hope to survive to fight on, mitigate the damage such that their war machine remains intact.

Oh sure, mankind has lots of enemies but :
Orks, nids, necron and chaos will basically kill everyone they see,
Orks and chaos will even fight each other.
Tau is a small emperie, nothing the size of the IOM.
Dark Eldar are just pirates and
Normal Eldar are a small treat, with craftworlds being destroyed every day.

And now that i have insulted 70% of dakka members...
---FOR THE EMPEROR!!!---

Simply put, you can't, so it's best to go down in a blaze of glory. When it's clear that the tide coming in is insurmountable, make sure to take every last xeno and/or heretic you can down with you. When they come knocking on Terra, make sure that every single inch they cross through the solar system will cost them. And when Terra finally falls under the press of bodies, detonate it in one last fit of pique to make sure that if you can't have it, nobody else can. That's the whole point of Warhammer, the Imperium is going to die, but it's sure as hell not going to go down quietly.

Even if the Emperor where resurrected it would at best stabilize and preserve the Imperium, not allow it to conquer the galaxy again. the IOM is just too large for the emperor to reform quickly, hell he would have to sit around for a century or two just to talk to the mechanicus and explain how the stuff they use everyday works. the IOM is not meant to win it is meant to soldier on or go down fighting.

Ever forward, as it should be..

A final victory isn't part of the "40k package" so maybe we have to just survive?

But if it was, Mankind would survive. Because us generalists will beat specialists in the long run.
Others get boni , Humans prevail with hard work.

Look at it this way. Humans got the numbers to take losses without breaking, they got the ferocity to retaliate at a level that nearly autokills whole civilizations and they got the will to survive this. So basically most opponents are screwed and just unaware of their doom. Let us keep them thinking they stand a chance. Do we really need to care for their arrogance, their false hopes, their illusions of humans as easy prey?

I say let them believe whatever they want.

Because , this Galaxy belongs to the Emperor and my trusty chainsword will ensure they all learn to accept this truth.
It matters not how they die under the boots of the IG or in a fiery bath of holy promethium . All that matters is the inevitable victory of the forces of the Imperium , slow and steady. Were not in a hurry....

1hadhq wrote:A final victory isn't part of the "40k package" so maybe we have to just survive?

But if it was, Mankind would survive. Because us generalists will beat specialists in the long run.
Others get boni , Humans prevail with hard work.

Look at it this way. Humans got the numbers to take losses without breaking, they got the ferocity to retaliate at a level that nearly autokills whole civilizations and they got the will to survive this. So basically most opponents are screwed and just unaware of their doom. Let us keep them thinking they stand a chance. Do we really need to care for their arrogance, their false hopes, their illusions of humans as easy prey?

I say let them believe whatever they want.

Because , this Galaxy belongs to the Emperor and my trusty chainsword will ensure they all learn to accept this truth.
It matters not how they die under the boots of the IG or in a fiery bath of holy promethium . All that matters is the inevitable victory of the forces of the Imperium , slow and steady. Were not in a hurry....

Until the main body of the Tyranids arrives and you find out "Sir there's at least a billion of them for every lasgun cell." "Only a billion? Bring in the ordinance then!" "Sir, I was talking about the hive ships." "Oh...bugger..."

10 simple words:

"Our faith is my shield, our fury is our sword."

Yes the situation is hard for now as Imperium has expanded a little to far then it has army's to defend. But this same thing happened before and Imeprium still endures. And we stil lahve our triumph card we didn't use: reincarnation of the Emperor and return of the Primarchs, when that happened nothing could stand in our way.

If there is one thing I learned about Humanity in my 22 years of living is that we are good in one thing - we know how to fight. No matter if Ork are better warriors, Elar are faster, Tyranid more numerous and Tau or Necrons advanced - we have always find a way to defeat our enemies and we shall continue to do so unti lthe end of time itself.

GLORY TO THE EMPEROR!!! GLORY TO MANKIND!!!

Kain wrote:

Until the main body of the Tyranids arrives and you find out "Sir there's at least a billion of them for every lasgun cell." "Only a billion? Bring in the ordinance then!" "Sir, I was talking about the hive ships." "Oh...bugger..."

The size of the "main body" of the Tyranids isn't as great as you seem to think.
Plus, nids have to oppose everyone... and with our new newcron support in this cause, how can we fail?

Sure the bugs aren't used to have their asses kicked out of a Galaxy. But there is always a first time.

TermiesInARaider wrote:Exactly what it sounds like. Between the Forces of Chaos, the Tyranid Swarms, the Ork WAAAHG!s, and the awakening Necrons, all the big guns in the Imperium don't seem to be enough. How, in the big picture, can the Imperium possibly hope to survive?

You can't.

That's kind of the point

The whole setting is basically Humanity's Famous Last Stand, stuck in a timewarp

All very heroic and so on, but the endless stalemate gets a bit dull. I'd be all for the Imperium shattering into several smaller human empires instead of trying to hold together a huge empire beyond their means or grasp.

The Roman empire had the same issue. If they'd stayed smaller, they wouldn't have gotten so overextended, and wouldn't have collapsed as easily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

1hadhq wrote:A final victory isn't part of the "40k package" so maybe we have to just survive?

But if it was, orks would survive. Because us generalists will beat specialists in the long run.
Others get boni , orks prevail with hard waaagh!.

Look at it this way. orks got the numbers to take losses without breaking, they got the ferocity to retaliate at a level that nearly autokills whole civilizations and they got the will to survive this. So basically most humans are screwed and just unaware of their doom. Let us keep them thinking they stand a chance. Do we really need to care for their arrogance, their false hopes, their illusions of survivability? '

I say let them believe whatever they want.

Because , this Galaxy belongs to gork and Mork and my trusty choppa will ensure they all learn to accept this truth.
It matters not how they die under the boots of the or in a fiery bath of da burna boyz . All that matters is the inevitable victory of the forces of the , slow and steady. Were not in a hurry....

Fixed that for you

TermiesInARaider wrote:
Let's see... Israel. Japan. Germany. France. Spain. Anyone I'm missing? Oh, right. The good ol' USA. Lost a bit of her luster, sure, but she's still the most powerful cultural, political, military, and economic force on the planet earth. Built from immigrants since her inception, continuing to this day, as it was designed to be.

Again, please. Stay on topic. Global economics has nothing to do with how the Imperium of Man would ever defeat it's many enemies.

The USA is an Anglo-Saxon country.
Pretty much everywhere in Europe outside of the Germanic north is currently in the gak. Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal...lack of efficiency.
Per ardua ad astra

Ascalam wrote:

The whole setting is basically Humanity's Famous Last Stand, stuck in a timewarp

But .. it is sooo... cinematic.

Ascalam wrote:
All very heroic and so on, but the endless stalemate gets a bit dull. I'd be all for the Imperium shattering into several smaller human empires instead of trying to hold together a huge empire beyond their means or grasp.

Shattered Empires are nice on a planetary scale. They are dead husks with ruins on top of them in 40k.
Why ? Because humans got everyones attention. Does anyone care for sleepy Tomb-worlds or drifting Craftworlds?
The focus of GW on humans keeps said humans on the radar. Too much unwanted attention for shattered bits of a former empire.


Well done. Its a interesting fix :




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May I point to the thing a certain company has with 'cinematics' ?
There, the main actor in their setting is the IoM, aka cptn Kirk, and the rest is a bunch of red-shirts.
You know which fate awaits those in red..

Joey wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:
Let's see... Israel. Japan. Germany. France. Spain. Anyone I'm missing? Oh, right. The good ol' USA. Lost a bit of her luster, sure, but she's still the most powerful cultural, political, military, and economic force on the planet earth. Built from immigrants since her inception, continuing to this day, as it was designed to be.

Again, please. Stay on topic. Global economics has nothing to do with how the Imperium of Man would ever defeat it's many enemies.

The USA is an Anglo-Saxon country.
Pretty much everywhere in Europe outside of the Germanic north is currently in the gak. Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal...lack of efficiency.
Per ardua ad astra

Anglo Saxon huh? You're pathetically ignorant if you honestly believe that hard work, discipline, and such are reserved for Anglo saxons. I've never known anything but hard work and discipline and my family hails exclusively from sicily.

You're a joke.

Leaving this thread. Clearly some people lack a sense of humour.

Joey wrote:

Ignatius wrote:

Joey wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:
Let's see... Israel. Japan. Germany. France. Spain. Anyone I'm missing? Oh, right. The good ol' USA. Lost a bit of her luster, sure, but she's still the most powerful cultural, political, military, and economic force on the planet earth. Built from immigrants since her inception, continuing to this day, as it was designed to be.

Again, please. Stay on topic. Global economics has nothing to do with how the Imperium of Man would ever defeat it's many enemies.

The USA is an Anglo-Saxon country.
Pretty much everywhere in Europe outside of the Germanic north is currently in the gak. Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal...lack of efficiency.
Per ardua ad astra

Anglo Saxon huh? You're pathetically ignorant if you honestly believe that hard work, discipline, and such are reserved for Anglo saxons. I've never known anything but hard work and discipline and my family hails exclusively from sicily.

You're a joke.

That's probably why Sicily is such an efficient and wealthy place to live.
No, wait.

These characteristics you are identifying are no necessarily quantifiable in terms of a countries economy. Just because a place or person doesn't have a lot of money doesn't mean they are not hard working. Did American west coal miners make a lot of money? Nope. So they weren't hard workers then right? Again no.

Edit: good you shouldn't be making woefully ignorant comments even if you are just joking. By the way, it was a terrible joke

Off topic:
This whole Anglo-Saxon thing was Joey making a joke about the British demeanor from the age of sail through the modern period. The whole stiff upper lip, nose to the grindstone, bulwark of Europe mindset. Apparently it was lost on some, and then exploded in the veiled idea of racism.
It was neither the crowd nor the place for such a joke, and appeared intended without malice...can we please just leave it at that.


On topic:

We don't win, we don't loose, we just try damn hard. Humanity will not go out in some spectacual bang, like the eldar, but will wither away from the death of a thousand cuts before being replaced by something else.

I think the only way the IOM can win is by allying themselves with alien races. This means we should ally with Tau, Eldar, and friendly Necrons. Then we can stand a chance. The biggest problem for the IOM is that they fight against aliens simply because they are aliens. We should be trying to get allies in these battles not making enemies when we encounter another new species.

There is no hope and the Imperium can't win. It will invariably be destroyed by its many foes. That is a constant theme in 40k.

With the Necrons reduced drastically in threat-level they certainly have a boost in 6th edition though. Things won't be as bad for them as in 3rd Edition, which is probably when they were at their worst. Or as bad as in 5th Edition for that matter.

"It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor of Mankind has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the master of mankind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the vast Imperium of Man for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day so that he may never truly die.Yet even in his deathless state, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Warp, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's will. Vast armies give battle in His name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces, the ever-vigilant Inquisition and the tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat to humanity from aliens, heretics, mutants -- and far, far worse. To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods."

I always felt that this summed it up very nicely.

That only meant that we have much more to defend then troops to spare. That doesn't mean that we will fail in the end.

The Imperium can't win. Individual civilians can hope to survive, but that's it.

It's an eternal stalemate. Sure, one or another faction may slip up, only remembered in footnotes of the annals of ancient history, but with all the species and numbers and technologies that are involved, there truly cannot ever be a victor except for those wishing for mutually assured destruction.

Brother Coa wrote:That only meant that we have much more to defend then troops to spare. That doesn't mean that we will fail in the end.

Actually, it pretty much does, barring Deus Ex Machina plot devices.

The IOM simply doesn't have the manpower (despite having a massive amount of it) to effectively hold the territory it claims.

If it was capable of making the decision to pull in all of its forces to a smaller territory it could defend that quite handily, but it never will.

Which leaves it slowly shrinking under the depredations of the other factions (and continual internal strife), unwilling to abandon it's hold on territory that it simply cannot control yet unable to expand ior effectively police the outer edges of that territory. It can't produce enough materiel or manpower to retake the lost sections and then expand outwards, and the best i can hope for is to prolong the agony

Which maked for a truly cinematic but very compelling (when they quit retconning everything about ) setting.

The IOM is well and truly fethed. It knows it. It's going down fighting anyway, and will hold every square inch of territory for as long as possible, while a giant neon sign hangs from two Thunderhawks above the scene, flashing 'Feth you all!' in briliant 40 ft high neon.

Anything less wouldn't be appropriately IOM MY BT would be upset at anything less heroic than that,a s it would be taking the easy way out


Automatically Appended Next Post:
**Disclaimer** unless they feel like handwaving an Imperial Win miracle, like those folks at BL are so fond of doing, of course.. Not much we can do to penetrate plot armour that thick

You really think that if GW one day decide to finally end 40k they will let the Imeprium fall and Mankind get destroyed?

Human universal rule no. 4: Humans always win ,ALWAYS.
Maybe Imeprium will crumble but new one will arise and conquer the galaxy united under the renewed Emperor.

+ we have Ultramarines, everything else is pointless

I want to point out for that one guy that "the good ol' USA" was practically founded on racism and genocide which should not be bragged about

Don't get me wrong i love being an american but the clear fact is humans are awful creatures who don't give a darn if it doesn't effect them

That's why we always win

Brother Coa wrote:You really think that if GW one day decide to finally end 40k they will let the Imeprium fall and Mankind get destroyed?

Human universal rule no. 4: Humans always win ,ALWAYS.
Maybe Imeprium will crumble but new one will arise and conquer the galaxy united under the renewed Emperor.

+ we have Ultramarines, everything else is pointless

GW will go out of business before allowing 40k to end.

Mankind will not get destroyed but the endgame is a broken empire.

The Only possibilty i see of the Imperuim of Winning is non existant , but surviveing i see a way . If the Imperium was to pull back to core worlds and only keep those were elite soldiers were recruited ( Cadia, Kreig , ect. ) and lose thier outer colonies without overstreching themselves they could fight the Orks to a standstill but in order to push those beseching the Imperium something unthinkable would have to happen the Imperial Guard would have to fight side by side with Tau Firewarriors , Elder Aspect Warriors .. The Space Marines would have to reunite into Legions rather then Chapters and fight Side-by Side with Wraith Guard and Tau Battle suit Squadrens . Kasrkin Stormtroopers side by side with Howeling Banshees and Tau Vespid Warriors .... They would have to unite the technology of the Elder , Manpower and Crack troops of the Imperium , Advanced Plasma technology from the Tau . Only then could the Forces of Light hope to push back the horrors on either side , the Hellspawned Chaos , Ravanous Tyranids and the unnumberable Orks . The imperium if it was willing to do so could show those who opposed them that Never shall Their Galaxy Be threatened and that the Greater Alliance between the Human , Elder and Tau be on shatterable then and only then could the imperium win

Holy run-on sentence, batman!

But the point is reasonable, IF you can talk the Eldar and Tau, who the IOM has been trying to eradicate, into joining an alliance with the IOM in charge.

DOn't really see that happening, especially as the Eldar and the Tau aren't really into the Imperial Creed, but if it did it would change the setting pretty decisively.

So would an alliance between the Orks and the Eldar. They've even worked together before, a long long time ago. Maybe even rope the DE in too...

Ork hordes supported by Eldar tech.. oh yeah

Flickerfielded, nightshielded, KFF'd, Spiritstoned, Holofielded BW's? Sign me up

Ascalam wrote:Holy run-on sentence, batman!

But the point is reasonable, IF you can talk the Eldar and Tau, who the IOM has been trying to eradicate, into joining an alliance with the IOM in charge.

DOn't really see that happening, especially as the Eldar and the Tau aren't really into the Imperial Creed, but if it did it would change the setting pretty decisively.

So would an alliance between the Orks and the Eldar. They've even worked together before, a long long time ago. Maybe even rope the DE in too...

Ork hordes supported by Eldar tech.. oh yeah

Flickerfielded, nightshielded, KFF'd, Spiritstoned, Holofielded BW's? Sign me up

Didn't need no periods JK lol but Yeah that is why there is a IF in there.

True nuff

We already know where the plot is going (nowhere ) bt 'what if...' is far more entertaining