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What's y'all opinions on the LS and it's variants? Worth it to field one or a couple? And which variant do you preferr and what load outs? Just trying to gather some info for my future vanilla marine list! Thanks for any input!

Pretty good on the whole, alone can work, multiples (with or without squadronning) can work.

Best (generally speaking) loadouts are: Typhoon with Heavy Bolter; or Multi-Melta/Heavy Flamer

Very favorable - they are one of my favorite units. Take more than one if you are going to take them at all. They are usually my only FA choice, so I run them in squadrons of 1.

Jangustus has named two of the most popular variants. Another would be the Typhoon w/ MMelta for even more tank-hunting goodness.

If your vanilla marines include Vulcan, then the MM and/or Heavy Flamer Land Speeder is damn useful.

For my Templars, I just use the simple Multi-Melta, which I generally deepstrike to take a pot shot on a transport or pesky dreadnought or shooty tank.

If your marine list already contains a lot of AV10/11, then the more the merrier. The missile launcher one's probably the way to go. For everyone else, they're too fragile to operate much out of a drop-and-pop role. In this case, the multimelta (and to a much lesser extent, assault cannon) would be the way to go here.

They are awesome!!
I run 3 typhoons behind my 3 predators (for cover saves obviously) and they usually survive games and wreck havoc!
They are good late game objective grabbers as well!

As someone who plays against them, they are great.

Fast, easy to hide, can carry some of the best weapons in the game. Become utterly murderous in a Salamanders army.

I hate them whenever I have to play against them. So yes, they are rather good. Running them as Multi-Meltas will really put a kink in many Mech lists.

The general consensus that I've seen in other posts both here and other places on the web would seem to suggest various loadouts that are optimized.

MM/HF capitalizes on Vulcan, or in the case of BA, on being able to support a deep strike and effectively take out transports and the troops inside them.

HB/ Missile Launcher: Good against light armoured, and can also do decent anti horde with frag missiles. A good all rounder, reasonably priced.

MM and nothing else: Fairly inexpensive, but unless you're deep striking it to use as a suicide tank buster, an attack bike would serve a similar purpose for cheaper, with the slight downside of being less durable in situations.

I have no experience with landspeeders as of yet, and none of these pieces of advice are my own. I merely repeat the wisdom of those more experienced than I am.

I don't know anything about other variants. My advice (and this is actually my own advice) is that you should listen to the advice of others, but ultimately it's up to what fits the best in your playstyle.

I love them. I run Typhoons and they usually win the game for me because of their sheer mobility allowing them to contest objectives outta nowhere.

People also know this and so shoot at them. A lot. Usually much much more than they are worth. I once had an IG player fire at my individual typhoons with his bassies rather than my bunched up parking lot of razorbacks...

I run a Vulkan Salamanders list, and in my last league i ran 3 HF/MM land speeders as 3 seperate units. I was deep striking them as a one time use shoot and get popped, and found them ok, but then I started them off on the board and their usefullness and living power went up exponentially. I would strongly recommend using at least 1 in almost any TAC list.

Despite their speed and useful weaponry I've personally been hesitant to take them due to their fragility.

Overall, wonderful little additions. They can make for an excellent harassing force and late-game objective contesters. Not something I'd build a list around, since they're VERY squishy, but they can really make a bland list come to life, when used properly.

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:I love them. I run Typhoons and they usually win the game for me because of their sheer mobility allowing them to contest objectives outta nowhere.

People also know this and so shoot at them. A lot. Usually much much more than they are worth. I once had an IG player fire at my individual typhoons with his bassies rather than my bunched up parking lot of razorbacks...

That's bizzare, how can you fire heavy artillery at an airborne target

they wreck. They have won multiple games for me...HF/MM combo...at least 2 in a squadron (so they ignore shaken and stunned)

They are great at shooting through cover with the flamer, they can pop anything from behind fairly easily...and...best of all..they are EXTREMELY disruptive to what your opponent is trying to do.

They are kind of like scouts...they don't always get their points back (probably 1/2 the time...1 time out of every five games they do something amazing and win you a game though). But they totally screw up your opponents plan by popping up in a vulnerable spot and forcing them to halt and focus fire on something new.

If you are playing different types of games and against varying opponents, they are a nice investment to help you rock the win column.

ignore previous advice about typhoon and MM. Purpose of a typhoon is to stay back and blow things up. Purpose of a MM is to get close to destroy high armor with the extra 2d6 pen. these are 2 entirely conflicting weapons thus making the the combination not worth the pts. Instead sit with the HB and typhoon to occasionally get S5 shots in case you needed to move and fire upon weak infantry. The MM can be either paired with a HF, HB or just run solo. MM should be used to zip around 12" at a time and get as close to the juiciest armor value available. Despite very few people giving it credit the assault cannon can be useful when paired with the HB or MM. It is probably a bit over priced but 4 shots with a chance to rend is nice. Those shots could possible penetrate 14 if the rending takes hold. Other wise still effective against 10/11 armor. Anti-infantry capabilities of an AC/HB speeder build are decent.

Personally I love using my speeders in my Scars list and outflanking them to those big tanks that are sitting back. Ill always run at least one typhoon that sits on the table from turn one. It has a decent chance to survive through at last turn 3-4. later ill outflank at least 1-3 speeders with at least one MM and possibly an AC. Running 2 weapons on the speeders will also increase survival allowing for multiple immobilized or weapon destroyed results before the speeder has to die. as long as your not running flat out a ton ur doing all right.

I used land speeders, they are nice. they can get some valuable weapons there fast and easy.

deggreg@yahoo.com wrote:best of all..they are EXTREMELY disruptive to what your opponent is trying to do.

... or, because they're flimsy AV10 vehicles, get swatted down by your opponent without him doing so much as blinking.

Most serious lists are built to be able to handle light vehicle spam, and most serious players are going to have no difficulty focusing fire on the most threatening targets. Against noobs with bad lists, or who don't know what they're doing, speeders may come as a nasty surprise. Against more seasoned veterans, you're just throwing free points and KP at your opponents. If you're playing against someone who has had experience fending off 14 AV10 skimmers in a DE list, handling 3 in a SM list is hardly a challenge.

If you've got a lot of other things in this armor class (like, say, a bunch of razorbacks), then you might have enough saturation to make it work, or, of course, if you deepstrike them, in which case they get a guaranteed shot off before they get shot at in return.

I seriously question either the luck of the player or the quality of their opponents if anyone claims that they've had single AV10 vehicles wrecking face game after game with their opponents powerless to stop them...

I can agree there beware the fragility of the speeder. Anything you try to get into peoples faces with better be a suicide mission or extremely lucky. It is surprising how long they can last in the right circumstance though. This is the reason everyone loves the typhoon speeder. It can sit back far enough to usually get a cover save and be out of ranged of hopefully anything too deadly.

My speeders attracted a ton of attention for quite a while with out ever doing anything too spectacular. Everyone knows what they can do and is very wary of them because of this. However, the attention garnered by my speeders also allowed for much less attention to be payed to the Rhinos I brought to the field. I ended up having rhinos that would survive through the game on objectives. It helps me out alot to see my opponent waste the shooting of his heavy weapons to wipe out my 90 pt model where as my tac squad that easily runs double that is able sit on objectives unmolested for a while longer.

I'll agree more with Ailaros that they rarely have that amazing game where they dominate a battle field, but thats not what they do. they are quick strike to catch an opponent where he is least expecting it. Like most other units the speeder has its uses that make it effective but it has many equal drawbacks. But in the FA slot they are the most reliable way to scoot decent firepower around the board quickly. Until possibly the Stormtalon or maybe something new in 6e comes along then the Speeder easily dominates FA

dmthomas7 wrote:Everyone knows what they can do...

... less than their points in other slots? With speeders, you spend 180 points for 4 missile launcher shots per turn. You get the same thing for 140 points with devestators, and they throw in a signum. You get a slightly better form of this with a LCAC pred for only 120 points, and there you get AV13 out of the deal.

If bringing lots of firepower to the table is the purpose, then speeders aren't the best for the job, being more fragile and more expensive than other codex options. I mean, you'd expect this from an FA slot - paying a premium for mobility, but mobility won't make your speeder any less dead outside of SMF, which it has to give itself a vehicle shaken result to achieve.

Yet with the 180 pts you spend on 2 typhoon speeders. you will get either 4 S8 shots or 4 S4 blasts plus a chance for another 6 S5 shots if your in range. Mobility is also the advantage here. While your devastators are cheaper and have the signum the problem is they are a static unit. Those heavy weapons loose effectiveness if they are moved. A devastator squad is popped down in one spot and does not move from that spot at the risk of loosing its shots. Turn to your speeders who instead are able to move 6" fire any of the above mentioned weaponry or the speeders can jump 12" and still fire at least 4 S8 some weaponry still. Though the devastators do have plenty of range that is hard to escape, if the target they want does escape chances are they wont see that target again all game. The speeder can make its 12" move and manage to keep up with most other units in the game and continue to hammer the desired target.

To a completely different point, say you already have your heavy slots filled. Perhaps you brought a Landraider to transport around your deathstar unit around. Then you also throw in a Dev squad to keep anything too strong form nearing your objective. Maybe ur last choice is filled by one of the other 3 useful heavies.(thunderfire, pred, vendicator) Well you may just be needing a little more heavy fire power. Great time to add a few typhoons. I see the speeders as a great way to supplement more of the needed firepower. Needing some more blasts to hurt the horde army your fighting? Again bring typhoons. Need more melta? 60 pts and you have a DS melta thats reasonably easy to bring down where ever you need. little bit of extra anti-infantry? Assault cannon and heavy flamer to do pretty good damage up close. I dont use them strictly because they can bring the weapon. They are a very flexible unit.

Ahh another one of these threads. And people have already recommended Typhoons instead of the chorus of "MM/HF!"

My work here is done

Well, there are two patterns that are very useful: Typhon with cyclone missile launcher and Tornado with heavy flamer and multimelta.
Both Speeders fulfill two rolls, anti-tank and anti-infantry.

Yea you should run them as everyone has stated before, run them with either anti infantry or anti tank because if you 1/2 and 1/2 and they are in a squad, then 1/2 w/ out the heavy weapons will be pointless aginst a tank.

3 years ago, I would have suggested speeders. A vulcan speeder at 24" is much more deadly than a LC vs armor 12 and below. When everyone thought melta was king and only brought melta as their anti-tank, speeders could stay back and be effective. A vulcan speeder was pretty darn good at destroying a LR too, and was worth the shot.

Since that time, the meta has changed. SW brought missile spam to the game. Autocannons became more popular in lists. GK were updated with psy-dreads, which shred AV 10 like paper.

Now, AV 10 does not last very long. As such, the 24" MM/HF speeder is less effective. The typhoon has grown in popularity as its easy to ensure cover saves for it. Even with a 4+ obscurement, it does not last long.

I stopped bringing speeders in my C:SM lists and replaced them with more dreads/preads. In today's meta the speeder just does not compete.

Ailaros wrote:

deggreg@yahoo.com wrote:best of all..they are EXTREMELY disruptive to what your opponent is trying to do.

... or, because they're flimsy AV10 vehicles, get swatted down by your opponent without him doing so much as blinking.

Most serious lists are built to be able to handle light vehicle spam, and most serious players are going to have no difficulty focusing fire on the most threatening targets. Against noobs with bad lists, or who don't know what they're doing, speeders may come as a nasty surprise. Against more seasoned veterans, you're just throwing free points and KP at your opponents. If you're playing against someone who has had experience fending off 14 AV10 skimmers in a DE list, handling 3 in a SM list is hardly a challenge.

If you've got a lot of other things in this armor class (like, say, a bunch of razorbacks), then you might have enough saturation to make it work, or, of course, if you deepstrike them, in which case they get a guaranteed shot off before they get shot at in return.

I seriously question either the luck of the player or the quality of their opponents if anyone claims that they've had single AV10 vehicles wrecking face game after game with their opponents powerless to stop them...

There is some merit to the post above. I would say that I'm pretty "lucky", I seem to always have a good and statistically improbable thing happen in my favor most games. I will say, that unless I'm totally dominating a game and on my way to a table and the LS come in turn 3+, they never live to see the end of the game (once in a while when playing objectives...never in KP battles).

I will say in the last 3 games I've played....

1) wrecked a leman russ on entry, it was a squad of 3....both lemans turned around and shot at it...one skattered way off, other one destroyed them. Still a win...made their points back and soaked up one round of leman shooting.

2) Killed a dreadnought, then contested an objective for the balance of the game (came in bottom of 3), won the game for me.

3) stunned a fire prism, but Njal had gotten out of his rhino and his LOT thing that makes everybody within X inches take a morale test went off...some of his troops ran and the land speeders were behind them so they couldn't regroup and they ran off the board.

They are pretty flimsy....as are scouts really. 1 Melta + 5 melta bombs wrecks something maybe 80% of the time for scouts, usually not something worth 120 points or whatever, and it's not every game that my 2 LS's will kill more then 140 points of stuff before they get popped..but there is something to be said for having units that die but disrupt your opponents strategy.

and yeah, I have rhinos and long fangs and such that require a ton of attention to slow down, so having additional targets pop up in their backyards...for my list anyway....works well. You make a good point though.

I myself am now leaning towards adopting Attack Bikes instead of Typhoon speeders. Speeders are just too easy to take out now that people have wisened up and take long-range anti-tank weapons instead of just spamming melta. There was a time when speeders would do great, as enemies wouldn't be able to effectively engage them, but that time has come and gone. Attack Bikes, on the other hand, are easy to hide and actually more resilient than speeders, especially against autocannons. Rather than taking two 100 point Typhoon speeders with multi-meltas, I plan on switching to taking two 100 point pairs of multi-melta attack bikes. The only real advantage that the Land Speeders have is their ability to turbo-boost to contest objectives.

One other interesting option is the Stormtalon with skyhammer missiles. This is obviously inefficient in terms of damage output, but has two big advantages-- AV11 and 60" range. An inefficient weapon that can't be killed is a lot better than an efficient weapon that dies after firing once or twice. That said, I think this option only really becomes worthwhile in high-points games, where slots become more of a concern.

Under the current meta, attack bikes really die fast. Before psydreads and ML spam was common, they were better.
Now a days, one psydread does not have that much of a problem killing 2 of the bikes.

To add insult to injury, the attack bikes have a LD of 8. So if you lose 1 of them, then the other must make a morale test. Falling back 3d6" can go from setting you back a turn to setting you off the board :\

I like them... Unless I have beacons I would stay away from deepstriking them, just too sketchy. Deploy them and start blasting! I've been running set of 2 typhoon/hb & 1 tornado AC/MM with great results. Yes, they are fragile but they offer up a 'distraction' most cannot ignore so I figure its been worth it just for that... last game i played, my opponent took out the typhoons early but then either couldn't (los, cover etc) or wouldn't(had other shots to take) go for the tornado. That little flying gnat zipped all around the board all game long and single 'wing'edly took down a Doomsday Arc, his Ctann(SP?) and his Monolith!!! Now, that was lucky and i don't expect that result every time but it was revealing to say the least! (What i learned is that the trick is offering up enough targets that they have to think twice about wasting shots on some stupid little skimmers- "hunh? there is this sqd of bikes, a dreadnaught , a vindicator coming at me and that devastator sqd over there... and one little skimmer?" they tend to get less fire priority from the enemy that way...) Always liked the Tempest pattern too and would probably still take one instead of the new Stormtalon, imo? Either way, with 6thed on the horizon maybe wait and see what happens with 'flier/skimmers'?

Despite what people say about typhoons with MM I love them. For 10 points I create a 24" anti a lot bubble around them to be able to sit back and fire multiple rockets a turn. For 10 points....... Show me something else I can get in the codex for 10 points that's better than a fast/skimmer MM safety net for my missile firebase....

2 typhoon w/MM, and a single mm/HF have become Almost auto include for me now.