Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So last night I was telling some friends how excited I was to play my dream list in a game of warmahords (having until now, only played a intro 25 point game)

I really wanted to field
Harbinger
-vigilant
-2x vanquisher

Paladin of the order of the wall x 3
High paladin SC

exemplar cinerator full squad

after explaining what the paladin and his buddies did, one fellah in my group piped up instantly with
"your a power gamer" I laughed a little inside... well alot actually XD havnt even played a game yet, dont even know what is a strong combo and isnt, and I am already power gaming.

But the main reason I wanted to post here was actually to ask a quick question.

Would the high paladin and co, be a good choice in lieu of a heavy warjack? They are typically a grand total of 8 points or so, and cannot take as much punishment as 4 paladins of the wall, and are slower, cannot engage as many targets, and require focus allocation to do anything.

So instead of taking 2 heavy warjacks would it be ok to take one heavy warjack and two lights, and instead of a 2nd heavy, just take the paladins?

Firstly, ignore those who say you're a power gamer. Any army has it's weaknesses and though most armies will have difficulty with that list I already come up with a couple that won't (Deneghra1 with blood hag, Retribution, etc.)

On to your question. They are a different choice to a heavy jack. They hit as hard, take damage like a champ (if they can even be damaged) and can be kept alive by Harby for maximum annoyance. But a heavy jack is adaptable. With the choir it can't be shot/spelled or gets +2 to hit and damage. A Vassal gives it more hits or makes it very hard to pin down in combat. It can hit more than once in melee.

Basically, pros and cons for both and with harby the balance is slightly tipped towards the paladins as it's easy to keep them on their feet. But only 51% in favour of the paladins.

The list seems average to me.

Also how are you taking 3x Paladin and Vilmon ?

As much as i love paladins, they have their downfalls once opponets realize it.


There is no powergaming in Warmachine imo

Spyder68 wrote:
Also how are you taking 3x Paladin and Vilmon ?

This.

There's no power gaming, only cheating.

You either need to drop that 3rd paladin or the Cinerators, which aren't available in Harby's Tier list(the only way to up the FA on Pallys).

This would be like a walk through a flowery medow compared to some menoth lists. I mean no offense to you or your list by that, but to not see a vassal or choir would be a great relief to me. There is NOTHING overpowered about your list(again, not meant to offend) and you should be pleased with yourself to not be following the same cookie cutter core most protectorate lists start with.
The others are right about the FA problem with your paladins, but even then the paladin duo with Vilmon are not the entities of cheese and terror your companion seems to think they are. I think even with all three paladins the list would be fair to the opposition.

in warmachine, everything seems overpowered in a vacuum. And because everything seems that way, it comes across as rather more balanced and encouraging of creative list building.

It's like (I'll admit it) heroscape in that sense. I had the same first reaction to both. What I found after some playtime was that the list that usualy won was the most flexible and played the most soundly. I've only played a little more than you, but I find myself reliving my heroscape experiences with Warmahordes.

So how does this list deal with high defense? massed shooting? circle teleport shenanigans? Seems like an average list really, if you plopped that on the table I would be confused but not cry cheese.

Yea no offense its an ok list but its kinda weak to what I've seen people (and myself) do with Harby. While paladins are freaking amazing they are slow as hell and generally can't stance dance and charge at the same time so you really want to make sure you kill something, though harby makes up for that with martry.

This doesn't seem like a very powergamer-y list to me.

Also, if you want to run 3 paladins, look into Harby's tier list, as I believe one of the benefits involves raising the FOC of paladins

I just ran it through Kommander and if you take out the 3rd paladin, you have 5 points left over. Use that for Knights exemplar. There, it just got a little better.

I am building as fast as I can afford atm, but I really want to field eKreoss or pKreoss full tier list, and I REEEEALLY want to field Harbingers tier 4 list.... like REALLY bad XD

I am about to get my reenlistment bonus, so I am hoping to be able to take $500 of it and completely stock up on trollblood, and finish off my PoM.

Currently I have purchased the PoM vs Khador starter set, a PoM starter set, paladin of the wall, and the PoM heavy warjack kit that can be built as a templar, vanquisher, or crusader.

Also in a week, I will have another PoM vs Kador starter, PoM half to add to my collection

So that would put me at, 2x PoM vs Kador: PoM models, one PoM battlegroup, a paladin, and one PoM heavy warjack kit


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kurgash wrote:I just ran it through Kommander and if you take out the 3rd paladin, you have 5 points left over. Use that for Knights exemplar. There, it just got a little better.

Why are knights exemplar better? Im still trying to get a grasp on how this game is played and the balances and counter balances via tactics and or strategies.

thakabalpuphorsefishguy wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kurgash wrote:I just ran it through Kommander and if you take out the 3rd paladin, you have 5 points left over. Use that for Knights exemplar. There, it just got a little better.

Why are knights exemplar better? Im still trying to get a grasp on how this game is played and the balances and counter balances via tactics and or strategies.

Well Knights exemplar have a nice little ability in which when one of them dies they get stronger so when you stack them with Harby you basically get a pretty powerful solo in the end.

Also on ekreoss prepare to spend alot of money! Units in this game are very expensive money wise but fear not Knights exemplar and Knights exemplar errants just came out in plastic/resin!

Also, CHOIR.

Anyone who takes Cinerators is clearly not power gaming... =P

AduroT wrote:Anyone who takes Cinerators is clearly not power gaming... =P

In an eKreoss Tier 4 list, they're honestly not that bad. They give a good screen for Kreoss and I've made a number of successful assassination runs with them thanks to Kreoss' feat and my opponent paying more attention to the Errants and KEs sitting on objectives and mass slaughtering what ever comes to push them off.

As to why KE are better [other than three paladins is illegal unless you're running harby tier (not sure what level you need/what requirements for extra paladins are] is that 6 weaponmasters are better than one higher pow weaponmaster. However, I would recommend min choir, vassal, and wracks to fill that last 5 points.

Out of curiosity, what are your friends running?

AduroT wrote:Anyone who takes Cinerators is clearly not power gaming... =P

A min squad can protect Severius really well for 5 points, and
Vindictus makes them fun to run up the field 10" a turn until someone
decides to try to take them out.

Yeah, but Bastions would probably do those same jobs better. That's really the only problem with Cinerators.

AduroT wrote:Yeah, but Bastions would probably do those same jobs better. That's really the only problem with Cinerators.

Not really. Arm 16 vs. 17 can be a big difference.

Add to that the fact that people don't want to give them a spd buff...

malfred wrote:

AduroT wrote:Yeah, but Bastions would probably do those same jobs better. That's really the only problem with Cinerators.

Not really. Arm 16 vs. 17 can be a big difference.

Add to that the fact that people don't want to give them a spd buff...

This. Once people learn that shooting the Cinerators makes them faster, they suddenly stop doing it as often. However, when they learn about the Bastion's ability, they pump into them with stronger stuff than they would normally so that there's more damage on them. When your opponent is lobbing stuff at them near their ARM value, their ability to spread damage becomes more liability than benefit.

But Cinerators with a speed buff now just have the same threat range that Bastions have every turn with their Reach weapons. And heck yes I'll still shoot Cinerators. I can pop a few off a range before they get close and thus lower their damage output, where the Bastions spread the pain around and are more likely to close with a full unit still and return all that pain. Plus the benefits of being able to put a Bastion or two in a specific spot to block LoS or a charge lane, and the enemy has the wipe out the whole unit to remove that one model is a very powerful ability. Also handy for denying things like Death Toll and Killing Spree and other abilities that trigger when you kill an enemy model.

AduroT wrote:But Cinerators with a speed buff now just have the same threat range that Bastions have every turn with their Reach weapons. And heck yes I'll still shoot Cinerators. I can pop a few off a range before they get close and thus lower their damage output, where the Bastions spread the pain around and are more likely to close with a full unit still and return all that pain. Plus the benefits of being able to put a Bastion or two in a specific spot to block LoS or a charge lane, and the enemy has the wipe out the whole unit to remove that one model is a very powerful ability. Also handy for denying things like Death Toll and Killing Spree and other abilities that trigger when you kill an enemy model.

I find that spreading the pain around just makes your Bastion line
really really thin unless your opponent is planning only on sending a
couple of solos against them.

You're playing Menoth. You're a power gamer.

Jokes aside, Bastions are better than Cinerators.

list appended

Your new list still has an illegal number of paladins. If you look at the model's card in the bottom right hand corner you can see a FA 2 there. This is the field allowance: the number of that model may be fielded per warcaster..

Actually if he's playing by tier list, he's fine I believe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, so in order for that to be a tier list, you cannot have vassals, only vassal mechaniks are allowed for her. Also what size is your choir group?

I would drop the Vanquisher and a repenter and grab 2 crusaders. Or look more towards baby seal clubbers (Reckoners)

In that case he can't take the two vassals of menoth.

Tier also needs the Avatar, which is a great jack to run with her (or anyone really) anyway since it doesn't rely on her focus.

Doesn't need it for the bonus paladins, just the T4 part.

You might consider the Shield Guard jack as Harby tends to be a big squishy target.