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So, after reading the 6th, I want to get some allies. Since I do not want to end up with CD or IG like everyone else, I am planning on a small Necron detachement. I bought the online dex and went through it.
So I have a few questions :
- What's a good HQ? (I was thinking destroyer lord or Trazyn since he can seize objectives)
- Are immortals any good, or shall I use regular warriors?
- Are Canoptek wraiths as good as the model makes them to be?

If you had around 500 points to build an ally FOC, what would be your pick?

(If it matters, I like my CSM CC - that means terminators and less PM that you would expect)

Cheers for the advice.

I'm using mephiston and some cheap troops with my crons for a lil.

Id love to run a mini green tide to score objectives.

Seb wrote:So, after reading the 6th, I want to get some allies. Since I do not want to end up with CD or IG like everyone else, I am planning on a small Necron detachement. I bought the online dex and went through it.
So I have a few questions :
- What's a good HQ? (I was thinking destroyer lord or Trazyn since he can seize objectives)
- Are immortals any good, or shall I use regular warriors?
- Are Canoptek wraiths as good as the model makes them to be?

If you had around 500 points to build an ally FOC, what would be your pick?

(If it matters, I like my CSM CC - that means terminators and less PM that you would expect)

Cheers for the advice.

The best HQs Necrons have to offer are the build your own either an overlord or Dlord. Overlord can be fine in his own barge or attached to his court or a big warrior unit. If your taking the Dlord have him go with the wraiths.

The very best things the book has to offer are mindshackle scarabs, max wraith squad with 3 or so whips and scarab farm if your playing the army normally. (6-9 spyders with 1-2 max scarab units)

Everything else is solid but not as game breaking. I also perfer warriors over immortals, especially with rapid fire changes, however this isnt a mandatory as both work fine. The new rapid fire changes edge out tesla immortals imo though.

What I would do for 500 points is take a Dlord, max out a wraith detatchment for him, flit in a min warrior squad and try to shoehorn in some gunboat from heavy support like a barge or simply beef up the warrior squad with the spare points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an aside with the way challenges work now the Dlord with scarabs and weave will be amazing for you. Though if you see a bunch of ap1/2 an overlord will be somewhat more survivable, though costly with a shifter.

Good point, I did not realize the Dlord and the wraiths could squad up together. That would make a very good CC unit.

Even better, the whole lot (Dlord, wraiths and a good squad of warriors) is less than 500 points.

I'm no Cron Vet, but I'd say:
10 man Warrior Squad + a Res Orb Royal Court Lord w/ Gunboat Night Scythe (295)
Overlord w/ Res Orb, Warscythe & Phase Shifter w/ 5 man Sword+Shield Lychguard (400)

I know it's 695 as opposed to <500, but it gives a scoring unit, a flyer, and some decent CC against all but TEQs.



If you are insistant on a DLord, go Res Orb & Semp Weave (170)
10 man warriors (130) cos you need troops
10 Triarch Praetorians with a Rod of Covenant (400) <-- DLord goes here.

Again expesive at 700 points, but gives some cheap(ish) troops that come back to life, and one heluvah CC Jump Infantry squad w/ PE(everything (yes ICs grant PE to a squad they join)) that cane mince TH/SS nators (rods AP2 in assault).

A destroyer lord is an excellent option, he's just so powerful and can't be instant killed easily. Since most nercon lists fold in melee, he's a good addition to nearly any list.

As for warriors vs immortals, it just comes down to what do you want, more weaker troops with weaker guns, or less tougher troops with stronger guns.

Wraiths are a good choice from the codex to use.

Overlord w/ Warscythe & MSS on CCBarge
5x Warriors w/ Night Scythe
1x Doom Scythe

That's 535 total, and a disgusting amount of threat you can add for the price.

That's just evil azazel, I like it

IHateNids wrote:I'm no Cron Vet, but I'd say:
10 man Warrior Squad + a Res Orb Royal Court Lord w/ Gunboat Night Scythe (295)
Overlord w/ Res Orb, Warscythe & Phase Shifter w/ 5 man Sword+Shield Lychguard (400)

I know it's 695 as opposed to <500, but it gives a scoring unit, a flyer, and some decent CC against all but TEQs.

If you are insistant on a DLord, go Res Orb & Semp Weave (170)
10 man warriors (130) cos you need troops
10 Triarch Praetorians with a Rod of Covenant (400) <-- DLord goes here.

Again expesive at 700 points, but gives some cheap(ish) troops that come back to life, and one heluvah CC Jump Infantry squad w/ PE(everything (yes ICs grant PE to a squad they join)) that cane mince TH/SS nators (rods AP2 in assault).

Question : why would you take praetorians instead of wraith? I picture de wraiths tougher?

azazel the cat wrote:Overlord w/ Warscythe & MSS on CCBarge
5x Warriors w/ Night Scythe
1x Doom Scythe

That's 535 total, and a disgusting amount of threat you can add for the price.

I see you liked the flyers rules !
I am not keen on taking a squad purely for its transport though.
The CCBarge is really a good invesment ?

In 6th Ed even the lowly Necron Warriors is a beast. They are dirt cheap and they poxy little gun can remove a Hull Point on a pen roll of a 6.

A squad of 10 is a snip at 130 points, they basically have a 5+ invul save (unless the squad all dies or they are falling back).

For tank popping fun put a harbinger of Destruction (S8 Ap2 36" staff) or a Harbinger of the Storm (Assault 4 12" Haywire staff). At 12" and rapid fire they will murder any vehicle in the game, at 24" you still stand a pretty good chance.


The Overlord CCB is amazing! Here's some high points:

Cheap
Survivable (Av13 and the Lord is T5 as well - also the lord can sacrifice wounds to repair hull points!)
Chariot.......

OK, the chariot is sweet! its a Fast Skimmer you can ride into combat!
Exampe 1 - yuo charge a unit....
**you get D6 S6 I10 hits
**you use Mindshackle scarabs to hopefultl make your target smack themselves...THEN you hit them with your S7 AP1 warsythe (that also gets 2D6 vs armour)


Example 2 - they charge YOU
pretty much the same as above except that at the start you:
**survve the first roudn of combat
**move 12" over the unit and get 3 Sweep attacks with your warscythe (no cover saves)
**from where you land, shot the underslung gun
**carry on as in the above example


on top of all this it also has a total movement of 30" (12" in movement phase, 18" Flat out int he shooting phase).

My setup normally costs 240 points:

Overlord - MSS, Phase Shifter, Warscythe, CCB.

the Shifter is not a must-have, the Barge gives him a 2+ armoru save in combat, but i like to play it safe.



So, for a small necron allies force my suggestion woudl be;

OverLord - Warscythe, MSS, Shifter, CCB - 240
10 Warriors - 130
10 Warriors - 130

Deploy the warriors sqauds close enough that they can combine fire on a target if you want - this allies pot will destroy any tank on the table given half a chance. the CCb can be used to absorb fire, target that pesky CC unit you were worried about (not tried against Termie yet but it ripped through a squad on Sanguinary guard last week for me)

Praxiss wrote:In 6th Ed even the lowly Necron

Spoiler:

Warriors is a beast. They are dirt cheap and they poxy little gun can remove a Hull Point on a pen roll of a 6.

A squad of 10 is a snip at 130 points, they basically have a 5+ invul save (unless the squad all dies or they are falling back).

For tank popping fun put a harbinger of Destruction (S8 Ap2 36" staff) or a Harbinger of the Storm (Assault 4 12" Haywire staff). At 12" and rapid fire they will murder any vehicle in the game, at 24" you still stand a pretty good chance.


The Overlord CCB is amazing! Here's some high points:

Cheap
Survivable (Av13 and the Lord is T5 as well - also the lord can sacrifice wounds to repair hull points!)
Chariot.......

OK, the chariot is sweet! its a Fast Skimmer you can ride into combat!
Exampe 1 - yuo charge a unit....
**you get D6 S6 I10 hits
**you use Mindshackle scarabs to hopefultl make your target smack themselves...THEN you hit them with your S7 AP1 warsythe (that also gets 2D6 vs armour)


Example 2 - they charge YOU
pretty much the same as above except that at the start you:
**survve the first roudn of combat
**move 12" over the unit and get 3 Sweep attacks with your warscythe (no cover saves)
**from where you land, shot the underslung gun
**carry on as in the above example


on top of all this it also has a total movement of 30" (12" in movement phase, 18" Flat out int he shooting phase).

My setup normally costs 240 points:

Overlord - MSS, Phase Shifter, Warscythe, CCB.

the Shifter is not a must-have, the Barge gives him a 2+ armoru save in combat, but i like to play it safe.



So, for a small necron allies force my suggestion woudl be;

OverLord - Warscythe, MSS, Shifter, CCB - 240
10 Warriors - 130
10 Warriors - 130

Deploy the warriors sqauds close enough that they can combine fire on a target if you want - this allies pot will destroy any tank on the table given half a chance. the CCb can be used to absorb fire, target that pesky CC unit you were worried about (not tried against Termie yet but it ripped through a squad on Sanguinary guard last week

for me)

I see your point. I do not see wraiths though. And I like the model and the concept (2 wounds flying SS terminators - Yes please !)
So I'd swap the second warrior squad for wraith. Which cost the same. And we are under 500 points.

Sounds like a plan !

Wraiths are generally considered to be the best unit in a good codex. I dont have any myself (field a pretty much pure shooty list, the only exceptions being a CCB Lord and some Scarabs).

Seb wrote:

IHateNids wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm no Cron Vet, but I'd say:
10 man Warrior Squad + a Res Orb Royal Court Lord w/ Gunboat Night Scythe (295)
Overlord w/ Res Orb, Warscythe & Phase Shifter w/ 5 man Sword+Shield Lychguard (400)

I know it's 695 as opposed to <500, but it gives a scoring unit, a flyer, and some decent CC against all but TEQs.

If you are insistant on a DLord, go Res Orb & Semp Weave (170)
10 man warriors (130) cos you need troops
10 Triarch Praetorians with a Rod of Covenant (400) <-- DLord goes here.

Again expesive at 700 points, but gives some cheap(ish) troops that come back to life, and one heluvah CC Jump Infantry squad w/ PE(everything (yes ICs grant PE to a squad they join)) that cane mince TH/SS nators (rods AP2 in assault).

Question : why would you take praetorians instead of wraith? I picture de wraiths tougher?

Actually, no. The only real advantage Wraiths have over Praetorians is 2 wounds, but they dont have Reanimation.

The disadvantages of wraiths:
Wraiths are T4, as praetorians are T5.
True, Wraiths are S6, but in CC so are Praetorians when armed with RoC.
And, of course, no RP

IHateNids wrote:

Seb wrote:

IHateNids wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm no Cron Vet, but I'd say:
10 man Warrior Squad + a Res Orb Royal Court Lord w/ Gunboat Night Scythe (295)
Overlord w/ Res Orb, Warscythe & Phase Shifter w/ 5 man Sword+Shield Lychguard (400)

I know it's 695 as opposed to <500, but it gives a scoring unit, a flyer, and some decent CC against all but TEQs.

If you are insistant on a DLord, go Res Orb & Semp Weave (170)
10 man warriors (130) cos you need troops
10 Triarch Praetorians with a Rod of Covenant (400) <-- DLord goes here.

Again expesive at 700 points, but gives some cheap(ish) troops that come back to life, and one heluvah CC Jump Infantry squad w/ PE(everything (yes ICs grant PE to a squad they join)) that cane mince TH/SS nators (rods AP2 in assault).

Question : why would you take praetorians instead of wraith? I picture de wraiths tougher?

Actually, no. The only real advantage Wraiths have over Praetorians is 2 wounds, but they dont have Reanimation.

The disadvantages of wraiths:
Wraiths are T4, as praetorians are T5.
True, Wraiths are S6, but in CC so are Praetorians when armed with RoC.
And, of course, no RP

And the 3++ inv with and lash whips (which just got a boost).

Also for the Dlord, i would take MSS and weave, only take res-orb if you do decide to run praetorians.

I forgot they had a 3 up invulnerable
But they are T4 so easier to wound

But they have 2 Wounds, too. It's all about what your goal with the unit is.

Here's the pros of each, as I see it.

Wraiths:
S6
Rending (good against vehicles)
2 Wounds
3+ invulnerable
3 attacks base
Many enemies will be striking at I1

Praetorians
T5
AP 2
Reanimation Protocols
Free shooting attack

I generally find Wraiths to be better all-rounders (immune to AP is sexy), but Praetorians are better against anything with a 2+ armor or S8-9, especially if they have a Destroyer Lord with Resurrection Orb.

PrinceOfMadness wrote:But they have 2 Wounds, too. It's all about what your goal with the unit is.

Here's the pros of each, as I see it.

Wraiths:
S6
Rending (good against vehicles)
2 Wounds
3+ invulnerable
3 attacks base
Many enemies will be striking at I1

Praetorians
T5
AP 2
Reanimation Protocols
Free shooting attack

I generally find Wraiths to be better all-rounders (immune to AP is sexy), but Praetorians are better against anything with a 2+ armor or S8-9, especially if they have a Destroyer Lord with Resurrection Orb.

Honesty they are both good, but I would only run Praetorians, if you take a Dlord with them. The Preferred enemy (That helps their shooting a ton) and Res Orb makes a pretty huge difference, considering you are wounding T4 on 3+, and Hitting on a 3+ This means you get pretty much reroll half your failed wounds against T4, and you will always get to reroll half your failed hits. As long as you keep the Dlord out in front, 90% of shooting should bounce right off of you.

I would say Praetorians are a lot more "Killy" than Wraiths are. Yes, Wraiths have rending, but honestly they won a lot of combats by attrition before, and even with Hammer of Wrath, this hasn't changed much. Praetorians will pretty much outright slay anything they go into combat with, except TH/SS terminators, thanks to the edge they have with their shooting. I wouldn't send them against Hordes, though, until they've been thinned down.

They Both have their merits, and it's not clear cut like it was in the last edition. I've been running squads of both myself, and I've found to really enjoy the Praetorians and Dlord.

One thing to note about the praetorians is this:

If they get wiped out, no RP for them.

It isn't very hard to shoot down 5-man units (though it they can get a Night Scythe transport, then that changes things a little).


---------------------------------------------------


I've been looking at the possibility of an ork/necron alliance and I must say that I am intrigued. Don't be surprised if you see orks - Warboss, 60 boyz and a dakkajet - in my future necron battles.

I still say wraiths all the way. 3++ , fearless, rending, cheaper unit, no need for grenades, whips, higher str, more wounds, great synergy with Dlord (though the praetorians can use him well since he is a challenge monkey). They both get hammer attacks so its a wash.

Against obviously inferior targets both will mop up so nothing there, against the best wraiths will be better. They directly counter TH/SS better than probably any unit in 40k. The whips are now doubly rough in 6ed with pile in moves being so paltry (far less incoming attacks).

T5 isnt as powerful as 2w and 3++


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only thing to give towards praetorians is that Necron Fast Attack is more powerful than Elites so you can easily fit them in.

]I still say wraiths all the way. 3++ , fearless, rending, cheaper unit, no need for grenades, whips, higher str, more wounds, great synergy with Dlord (though the praetorians can use him well since he is a challenge monkey). They both get hammer attacks so its a wash.

Praetorians have Fearless as well as having the same strength , and much better synergy with a Dlord, thanks to their shooting attacks.

]Against obviously inferior targets both will mop up so nothing there, against the best wraiths will be better. They directly counter TH/SS better than probably any unit in 40k. The whips are now doubly rough in 6ed with pile in moves being so paltry (far less incoming attacks).

I disagree. Most elite units will tie up Wraiths for several turns, before Wraiths win. Praetorians, between shooting and Close combat, will whip most elite units in a single turn, freeing them up to do other things.

T5 isnt as powerful as 2w and 3++

A T5 with a 4+ Reanimation protocol however is close, and better in some situations. With the Dlord out in front to soak up firepower, it takes quite a while to do any damage to a unit of Praetorians.

jy2 wrote:One thing to note about the praetorians is this:
If they get wiped out, no RP for them.

Wait, if the Dlord is with them, don't they still have a chance?
(him having Ever Living, and all)
...
or have I been playing EL wrong this whole time?
:O

skoffs wrote:

jy2 wrote:One thing to note about the praetorians is this:
If they get wiped out, no RP for them.

Wait, if the Dlord is with them, don't they still have a chance?
(him having Ever Living, and all)
...
or have I been playing EL wrong this whole time?
:O

Characters don't count at all for a unit's RP.

Which brings up another question:Now that Crypteks are In(Ch), if they are the sole surviving member of their unit, can any fallen members of it roll for RP? Or does his counting as a character prevent this? How did an entire town manage to feth up how RP is played?

Avatar 720 wrote:

skoffs wrote:

jy2 wrote:One thing to note about the praetorians is this:
If they get wiped out, no RP for them.

Wait, if the Dlord is with them, don't they still have a chance?
(him having Ever Living, and all)
...
or have I been playing EL wrong this whole time?
:O

Characters don't count at all for a unit's RP.

Which brings up another question: Now that Crypteks are In(Ch), if they are the sole surviving member of their unit, can any fallen members of it roll for RP? Or does his counting as a character prevent this?

Crypteks have always been characters, the rule remains the same as in 5th.

The Necron Codex specifically mentions that any Characters do not count for RP rolls. Basically, if it has Ever-Living, and everything else in its unit dies, it is the only thing allowed back up (unless something else in the unit has EL as well).

One quick tip, dont worry about necron scoring units any allies of convenience or Deperate allies can not be scoring units. So put 5 warriors in a night scythe and keep them away from the enemy.

McNinja wrote:The Necron Codex specifically mentions that any Characters do not count for RP rolls. Basically, if it has Ever-Living, and everything else in its unit dies, it is the only thing allowed back up (unless something else in the unit has EL as well).

Can you not decide what order to roll for RP and EL?

Say a D&D Squad (5 Deathmarks and a 1 Despair-tek) unit gets mowed down in one round of shooting.
Could not the Despair-tek roll for his EL token, and then, if he stands back up, the Deathmarks roll their RP ones?

skoffs wrote:

McNinja wrote:The Necron Codex specifically mentions that any Characters do not count for RP rolls. Basically, if it has Ever-Living, and everything else in its unit dies, it is the only thing allowed back up (unless something else in the unit has EL as well).

Can you not decide what order to roll for RP and EL?

Say a D&D Squad (5 Deathmarks and a 1 Despair-tek) unit gets mowed down in one round of shooting.
Could not the Despair-tek roll for his EL token, and then, if he stands back up, the Deathmarks roll their RP ones?

If the squad still has a member alive then the cryptek would just be using RP. Ifthe entire squad is wiped out then the cryptek uses EL. 3rd question under the FAQ section of the FAQ asks that.

"You would only get to roll for the attached character as he has the EL special rule."

if all the members in unit X die, only the EL Character attached to X could roll RP

And the FAQ says yes

I have been playing crons for a while now and I strongly recommend the wraiths (with some whip coils of course). Rending is extremely valuable with the new power weapon system as they can still bypass term armor. The whip coils are great for double charging a unit. My favorite thing to do is throw the wraiths into a cc first as their 3+ invulnerable save can protect them from pretty much any gun (plasma pistols hurt on an overwatch if they hit) Then charge a second unit into the cc to reap the benefits of initiative one opponents. Especialy if there is a Destroyer lord in the unit with them since with init two its rare he goes first. All that coupled with the benefits of the hammer of wrath special rule, ignoring difficult terrain, and awesome models makes them an auto in for all of my cron lists.

PS if you do run a Dlord in a unit of wraiths don't bother with the res orb. Its not worth the points if its only benefiting the dlord. I would go with just the sepetrial weave and mindshackle scarabs

Dragoon65 wrote:One quick tip, dont worry about necron scoring units any allies of convenience or Deperate allies can not be scoring units. So put 5 warriors in a night scythe and keep them away from the enemy.

WHAT?
Where's my BRB when I need it !

That changes everything.
Maybe I shall take Pepito the traveller as ally HQ (he's always scoring is he not?).
Then the smallest warrior squad possible.
Then the unit I want (praetorians or wraith).

From what I see in this discussion, I think wraiths bring more to the table than praetorians - remember that we are talking about an ally detachement, and I will have terminators in my main force.
From what I understand, praetorians more or less equals terminators.